***Official Border War Showdown Returns Thread***

[cmh6476]

does anyone care?

[Bearcat]

You know things are bad when pornstache drains a three.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I set it to record, so still haven't finished it.... but, holy shit.

Can't wait to play Stephen F Austin.

Well at least Stephen F Austin should be able to keep it within 30.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Self playing only 8 players today so far tells me he really wanted to blow these jokes out.

Yep. I can not recall a game where he coached like that after going up 20+. Poor Mizzou, it was as if Jeff Long himself was coaching on their side of the court.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Yep. I can not recall a game where he coached like that after going up 20+. Poor Mizzou, it was as if Jeff Long himself was coaching on their side of the court.

We did get to see the clear pecking order on the bench today at least for when the games really start mattering.. Looks like our 8 man lineup will consist of the current starters as well as Wilson, Coleman Lands and Lightfoot. Yesufu and the others clearly on the outside looking in now.

[smithandrew051]

Closer than I would’ve liked, but a win is a win. Looking forward to the rematch in March.

[HonestChieffan]

Thanks @KUHoops for the Hype! ����#RockChalk | #KUVB pic.twitter.com/KfL5kd5kVh

— Kansas Volleyball (@KUVolleyball) December 11, 2021

Jayhawks win the hotties game as well

[Pablo]

Good game good effort mutts.

Too bad we have to wait another year to kick your teeth in

[HonestChieffan]

Look at it this way, KU did Mizzou a huge favor on the financial side. They do same for Wichita State.

Share the wealth.

Classy

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Well at least Stephen F Austin should be able to keep it within 30.

It'll be nice to get back to playing within the kenpom top 150.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

The MU fans who were hoping that Mizzou would get a bad enough ass-whooping for the donors to turn their attention to Cuonzo should not be disappointed.

Attention was on him before the season even started.

New AD was asked during her interview if she would have a problem firing him, considering they are friends from prior stops and her son was coming to Mizzou to walk on for him.

She answered correctly, or she wouldn't be the AD.

When big money folks on the board of curators are asking questions like that before the season even starts, and then it goes off the rails like this (on the heels of a complete roster turnover), the writing is on the wall.

They'll find his buyout money. Likely after they go 2-14 or whatever in the SEC.

According to my people, the 2 most prominent and consistent donators to the athletic department (who have a health competition with each other) are both ready to write checks once Mizzou's season ends following the SEC tournament. That should cover most of the buyout (which also doesn't have to be given in a lump sum).

Martin was brought in and given a ridiculous sweetheart deal because of what a disaster Kim Anderson was. Landing the Porters initially and pairing strong transfers and other star HS recruits with them created some initial buzz. That died around the time he failed to land E.J. Liddell and all the hope about him actually elevating his recruiting and making Mizzou more of a factor in St. Louis began to fade.

I was never a fan of his and had major questions about him as he came in. First 9 months looked great. It hasn't looked good, really, since.

Even last season, which Martin spent 3 years building "to"... ended with a disappointing first round loss in the tournament.

Dude hates modern basketball style and players. Just a really bad fit for modern college hoops at the Power 5 level.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

There are some really good offensive teams this year, but I'm not sure any will be able to match KU if Wilson/Remy/McCormack start playing to their potential.

Defense isn't up to the usual standard under Self, but that was expected. He'll have them playing solid team D eventually.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

There are some really good offensive teams this year, but I'm not sure any will be able to match KU if Wilson/Remy/McCormack start playing to their potential.

Defense isn't up to the usual standard under Self, but that was expected. He'll have them playing solid team D eventually.

Yeah, I was texting my buddy about this during the game. Ochai and Braun are looking like the next great Kansas duo. We’ve had some good ones over the years too:

Kirk and Nick
Mario and Rush
Sherron and Cole
Tyshaw and T Rob
Wiggins and Embiid
Mason and Jackson
Graham and Svi
Dotson and Doke
Ochai and Braun

It’s crazy to think we have guys like Remy, McCormack, Harris, Wilson, Coleman-Lands, Clemence, etc in essentially support roles. Several of those guys would be top 2 players on pretty decent teams.

This team is really good. Some of the deepest guardplay I can remember at Kansas.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Attention was on him before the season even started.

New AD was asked during her interview if she would have a problem firing him, considering they are friends from prior stops and her son was coming to Mizzou to walk on for him.

She answered correctly, or she wouldn't be the AD.

When big money folks on the board of curators are asking questions like that before the season even starts, and then it goes off the rails like this (on the heels of a complete roster turnover), the writing is on the wall.

They'll find his buyout money. Likely after they go 2-14 or whatever in the SEC.

According to my people, the 2 most prominent and consistent donators to the athletic department (who have a health competition with each other) are both ready to write checks once Mizzou's season ends following the SEC tournament. That should cover most of the buyout (which also doesn't have to be given in a lump sum).

Martin was brought in and given a ridiculous sweetheart deal because of what a disaster Kim Anderson was. Landing the Porters initially and pairing strong transfers and other star HS recruits with them created some initial buzz. That died around the time he failed to land E.J. Liddell and all the hope about him actually elevating his recruiting and making Mizzou more of a factor in St. Louis began to fade.

I was never a fan of his and had major questions about him as he came in. First 9 months looked great. It hasn't looked good, really, since.

Even last season, which Martin spent 3 years building "to"... ended with a disappointing first round loss in the tournament.

Dude hates modern basketball style and players. Just a really bad fit for modern college hoops at the Power 5 level.

Where do you think your standing is on hiring a new coach compared to where you were after Kim? Do you think Cuonzo/the Porter Recruits at least elevated you above the rock-****ing bottom Kim took your program? I ask not as a dig, just as someone who can empathize being stuck in that rock bottom hell during the hiring process with KU football ever since Lew Perkins decided to axe Mangino for hurting some feelings during football practices (though we all know it was due to internal politics). Hopefully Leopold is a step forward for us, but we ultimately won’t know until we can get beyond a 3 win season.

Your last paragraph is interesting, if memory serves it was Kim’s biggest failure and I’m a bit surprised Cuonzo is having a similar struggle in that capacity due to his (relative) success with Cali before he made the jump to Mizzou.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Where do you think your standing is on hiring a new coach compared to where you were after Kim? Do you think Cuonzo/the Porter Recruits at least elevated you above the rock-****ing bottom Kim took your program? I ask not as a dig, just as someone who can empathize being stuck in that rock bottom hell during the hiring process with KU football ever since Lew Perkins decided to axe Mangino for hurting some feelings during football practices (though we all know it was due to internal politics). Hopefully Leopold is a step forward for us, but we ultimately won’t know until we can get beyond a 3 win season.

Your last paragraph is interesting, if memory serves it was Kim’s biggest failure and I’m a bit surprised Cuonzo is having a similar struggle in that capacity due to his (relative) success with Cali before he made the jump to Mizzou.

Yes, the standing is better because despite the fact they’re going to be Kim Anderson level bad this year, they weren’t that awful in the previous years. Morale isn’t as shot as it was.

Martin’s success at Cal/Tennessee was a mirage (and honestly, he should have done better at both places).

His last Tennessee team was loaded with good college talent, and it barely made the NCAA tournament before going on a run. They were in the First Four game, in case you had forgotten.

At Cal, he totally lucked out landing Ivan Rabb (a local 5-star who was going to Cal as long as the coach was 1/2 decent) and Jaylen Brown (who bonded with Rabb, wanted to get away from home, etc.). And then even with those two and 3-4 really good guards/future pros (all of whom he inherited) he made it as a 4-seed and got bounced round 1.

His issues - bad game day coach who spends all his time focusing of defense,
conditioning, and toughness and doesn’t understand or like the offensive driven focus of modern basketball, inconsistent recruiter whose style clashes with recruits with options- were present then, too.

He just didn’t stay either place long enough for his recruiting to bottom out the roster (he left year 4/5 messes at both schools, that someone else had to deal with).

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Yes, the standing is better because despite the fact they’re going to be Kim Anderson level bad this year, they weren’t that awful in the previous years. Morale isn’t as shot as it was.

Martin’s success at Cal/Tennessee was a mirage (and honestly, he should have done better at both places).

His last Tennessee team was loaded with good college talent, and it barely made the NCAA tournament before going on a run. They were in the First Four game, in case you had forgotten.

At Cal, he totally lucked out landing Ivan Rabb (a local 5-star who was going to Cal as long as the coach was 1/2 decent) and Jaylen Brown (who bonded with Rabb, wanted to get away from home, etc.). And then even with those two and 3-4 really good guards/future pros (all of whom he inherited) he made it as a 4-seed and got bounced round 1.

His issues - bad game day coach who spends all his time focusing of defense,
conditioning, and toughness and doesn’t understand or like the offensive driven focus of modern basketball, inconsistent recruiter whose style clashes with recruits with options- were present then, too.

He just didn’t stay either place long enough for his recruiting to bottom out the roster (he left year 4/5 messes at both schools, that someone else had to deal with).

Yep - I completely forgot about his time with TENN. The last time I was up to speed on Mizzou was after reading up on your basketball thread before the Showdown for Relief. I also didn’t appreciate how quickly he was jumping laterally from job to job (always a question mark in itself).

I wish you all the best and hope he gets canned promptly this year. Best of luck on finding a competent hire - your fandom is certainly due for one in hoops.