Chiefs Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? - Page 28

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-20-2009, 11:17 PM

Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Loyalty? Fairness?

You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited.

On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs.

Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse.

It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory.

“When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns.

“When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch.

“When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium.

That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense.

It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray.

We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too.

You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates.

Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants.

Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat?

You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel.

Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands.

Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley?

What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach?

I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind.

Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver.

Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse.

I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.

**Easy 6** · 12-22-2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Whoa, whoa. You can't judge Clancy on one season.

Clancy's had more than 1 year on the job.

**DeezNutz** · 12-22-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free

Clancy's had more than 1 year on the job.

Is that why his tenure has seemed so long in KC?

Here I thought I'd suffered through only 14 games...Well, I feel better now.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-22-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

That is pretty much what a good owner should do. Right? Not trying to argue here, but really what are you expecting him to do other than what he has done?

No.

It's called Due Diligence.

A great owner would have scoured the league for a player personnel guru like Eric DeCosta. He would have paid insane money for Chris Polian. He would have found a guy like Tom Dimitroff.

He wouldn't taken a poll, found out the name of the hottest candidate and guaranteed him a five year contract.

One look at Pioli's draft record should be an indication. Another indication would be that he wasn't the GM at New England. Another would be the fact that he allowed Haley to go unchecked this season and hire Clancy Pendergast, keep Tim Krumrie, cut Bernie Pollard, fire Chan Gailey the week before the season started and so on and so forth.

GREAT owners, owners with RINGS on their fingers, do NOT allow their people to go UNCHECKED.

Unfortunately, the Hunt family allows "their people" to go unchecked for decades at a time.

**Easy 6** · 12-22-2009, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Is that why his tenure has seemed so long in KC?

Here I thought I'd suffered through only 14 games...Well, I feel better now.

I agree with so much of the frustration, sometimes its impossible for me to argue a straight faced single word... the Heat is on in KC & i'm def pro Heat, this isnt any fun for me either... but 1 year? after all of this? yet another rebuild?

I'll get more specific with all kinds of gaudy stats & bold predictions to back that later... bedtime for bonzo.

**BossChief** · 12-22-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No.

It's called Due Diligence.

A great owner would have scoured the league for a player personnel guru like Eric DeCosta. He would have paid insane money for Chris Polian. He would have found a guy like Tom Dimitroff.

He wouldn't taken a poll, found out the name of the hottest candidate and guaranteed him a five year contract.

One look at Pioli's draft record should be an indication. Another indication would be that he wasn't the GM at New England. Another would be the fact that he allowed Haley to go unchecked this season and hire Clancy Pendergast, keep Tim Krumrie, cut Bernie Pollard, fire Chan Gailey the week before the season started and so on and so forth.

GREAT owners, owners with RINGS on their fingers, do NOT allow their people to go UNCHECKED.

Unfortunately, the Hunt family allows "their people" to go unchecked for decades at a time.

Decosta wasnt leaving Baltimore. Period. Might as well not even bring him up.

Chris Polian was gonna succeed his dad and everyone knew it. No way he was gonna up and leave that organization. NO CHANCE. Same as Decosta.

Tom Dimtroff was in charge of all those "drafts" that you hate and have labeled failures for NE. Why clamour for him anyway, he went the year before.

Pioli was the executive of the decade and if we passed on him, you know as well as I do that Clark would be burned at the stake, by now, for not signing him.

Its NOT Piolis draft record. Stop saying that, its not true. I dont like the guy, but be fair man...those drafts were Tom Dimitroffs. right or wrong?

You are right, he wasnt the GM for NE, he was director of player personel..meaning he was in charge of trades and free agent signings..you know, the part of the machine in NE that made the ship sail so well. The part that allowed them to stay competitive over the course of a entire decade and compete for the majority of the championships of that time span.

He wanted Clancy to be a position coach, which would be good for us IMHO. He was the defacto DC after no better alternative was available that fit perameters.

Keeping Krummrie was a GOOD decision IMHO, letting Gibbs go wasnt. I will eternally wonder why people hate TK so badly, I think he is a very good position coach. Who has he failed to develop? He has done a fine job with about every player sent his way. I would have prefered to keep Gibbs at all costs, but if he wasnt allowed to interview with Houston and we chose a DC that wanted his own staff, it would leave us in a rough spot as far as league rep goes with how we handle our coaches. Believe me, there is a reason that Gun was allowed to leave but Krummrie was retained and we tried to keep Gibbs.

I HATED cutting Pollard, but also realize he has reacted poorly to hard coaching in the past for Purdue and was suspended in college for blow ups at coaches, you simply cant have that in the NFL...should he have been cut and not just suspended as Brandon Marshall was? NO, but something needed done and we openly tried to trade him before cutting him. I will always look back at that as a monumental mistake by us that set us back another step on our journey.

I also have no response for the firing of Gailey, but I also am not privy to info that was included in the decision.

I seriously cant fault Clark at this point for going out and getting one of the better GMs available.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-22-2009, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

I seriously cant fault Clark at this point for going out and getting one of the better GMs available.

He wasn't a GM. How many times does that have to be said?

And who the **** are you to state that Decosta or Polian weren't "leaving"?

No offense but you're in Iowa.

I hardly think that YOU know what the **** was going on with Clark Hunt.

L.A. Chieffan · 12-22-2009, 01:41 AM

Krumrie is garbage dude. We have arguably the worst dline in the nfl for many years running. why even bother

Simply Red · 12-22-2009, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

Krumrie is garbage dude. We have arguably the worst dline in the nfl for many years running. why even bother

Do you still like in n out, alright?

L.A. Chieffan · 12-22-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simply Red

Do you still like in n out, alright?

your compliment was sufficent sr

**BossChief** · 12-22-2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He wasn't a GM. How many times does that have to be said?

And who the **** are you to state that Decosta or Polian weren't "leaving"?

No offense but you're in Iowa.

I hardly think that YOU know what the **** was going on with Clark Hunt.

I didnt say he was a GM, I said he went out and got the best available GM available. Big difference dude. Matter of fact, **** it I even said he wasnt the ****ing gm in my post, but you seem to be so anxious to point the finger of doom at me that must have missed that.

On the Coalition, we have two well known resident trolls I have chatted with for years...one is a Colts fan and the other is a Ravens fan and I couldn't dodge the endless Baltimore and Indy updates if I tried. Believe me, and if you don't I will pm you proof, I wanted either of those two before Pioli, SP was far from MY personal choice. I lobbied for both Decosta and Polian and was shown the truth through conversation that neither even contemplated leaving either team. I know plenty about both situations and there was no chance of either guy leaving.

I take no offense obviously, but what does Iowa have to do with anything?

How do you think YOU know what the **** is going on with Clark Hunt? Im not the one making accusations here, you are bud. I never said:

"he just took a poll and hired the most popular cantidate" ...among other claims. I am simply stating facts.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-22-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

How do you think YOU know what the **** is going on with Clark Hunt?

Yes. And I could care less about trolls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Im not the one making accusations here, you are bud. I never said:

"he just took a poll and hired the most popular cantidate"

He did just that

**BossChief** · 12-22-2009, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yes. And I could care less about trolls.

He did just that

What is "yes" an answer to, exactly?

he did more than just that. cmon, really? stop acting as if you were in the room, you werent. I wasnt either, just to get that out of the way ahead of time.

**BossChief** · 12-22-2009, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

Krumrie is garbage dude. We have arguably the worst dline in the nfl for many years running. why even bother

we had one of the best dlines in 2006+2007 when our defense was definitely returning to respectability (ranked #16 and #13 overall yardage defense in 06+07) lead by the Dline...then CP traded away our top threat (Jared) and let our third best pass rusher (Jimmy Wilkerson) walk for nothing. Those two had over 20 sacks between them last year in roles VERY similar to the role they would have played here. Id also like to point out that you can go down the list and see that each player he has coached has progressively gotten better the longer they were coached by him.

IMHO he has played the hand given to him very well as our Dline coach. Too bad King Carl was dealin the ****ing cards back then....

Taco John · 12-22-2009, 04:41 AM

Pioli - or any GM - would be a moron to fire a new coach after one single year. But especially the Chiefs. Between Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards, your franchise was a walking corpse. That isn't going to be fixed in one season. What Haley brought back to KC was someone on the sidelines who channelled the frustration that Chiefs fans have been feeling for at least a decade onto the field. He has been great for you guys in that respect. He cusses, he cries, he cusses some more.

He should be given at least as much time to install his program as Herm was given. He's not perfect, to be sure. Hell, who knows if he's even any good? But whatever he is, it isn't Herm Edwards. And Pioli isn't Carl Peterson.

The disease that Carl installed into your franchise isn't going to go away overnight. To even ask the question about bringing Haley back shows a weakness of intellect to me. How can Whitlock not understand all the reasons why Haley should be given the opportunity to install his program?

beach tribe · 12-22-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Decosta wasnt leaving Baltimore. Period. Might as well not even bring him up.

Chris Polian was gonna succeed his dad and everyone knew it. No way he was gonna up and leave that organization. NO CHANCE. Same as Decosta.

Tom Dimtroff was in charge of all those "drafts" that you hate and have labeled failures for NE. Why clamour for him anyway, he went the year before.

Pioli was the executive of the decade and if we passed on him, you know as well as I do that Clark would be burned at the stake, by now, for not signing him.

Its NOT Piolis draft record. Stop saying that, its not true. I dont like the guy, but be fair man...those drafts were Tom Dimitroffs. right or wrong?

You are right, he wasnt the GM for NE, he was director of player personel..meaning he was in charge of trades and free agent signings..you know, the part of the machine in NE that made the ship sail so well. The part that allowed them to stay competitive over the course of a entire decade and compete for the majority of the championships of that time span.

He wanted Clancy to be a position coach, which would be good for us IMHO. He was the defacto DC after no better alternative was available that fit perameters.

Keeping Krummrie was a GOOD decision IMHO, letting Gibbs go wasnt. I will eternally wonder why people hate TK so badly, I think he is a very good position coach. Who has he failed to develop? He has done a fine job with about every player sent his way. I would have prefered to keep Gibbs at all costs, but if he wasnt allowed to interview with Houston and we chose a DC that wanted his own staff, it would leave us in a rough spot as far as league rep goes with how we handle our coaches. Believe me, there is a reason that Gun was allowed to leave but Krummrie was retained and we tried to keep Gibbs.

I HATED cutting Pollard, but also realize he has reacted poorly to hard coaching in the past for Purdue and was suspended in college for blow ups at coaches, you simply cant have that in the NFL...should he have been cut and not just suspended as Brandon Marshall was? NO, but something needed done and we openly tried to trade him before cutting him. I will always look back at that as a monumental mistake by us that set us back another step on our journey.

I also have no response for the firing of Gailey, but I also am not privy to info that was included in the decision.

I seriously cant fault Clark at this point for going out and getting one of the better GMs available.

Pioli was the consensus #1 candidate in the league, and probably was paid as so. Polian? DeCosta? Good Lord that's funny.

Pollard was a ****ing liability. I think it was CLEAR that we HAD to go after another Safety, or two, so why keep around a guy who demeans the authority of the coaching staff? I don't mind Pollard being gone at at all.
Texans with Pollard 8-8. Texans Without Pollard 8-8. Pollard is the starter on a team who has openly admitted that every other safety they had sucked beyond belief, so yeah, I'm sure they are happy to have him. I will be happy to have the guy who man's the spot in 2010. Trust me, It won't be mike Brown.

As for Pioli, I'm damn glad to have him, and anyone who wasn't happy the day they signed him, just cannot be pleased unless the organization does exactly what they think should be done, Like buy the Colts, and fire Polian, because that's the only way his ass was coming to KC.
I mean really. Pick players to play with Peyton Manning, or go to the Chiefs.
Some people are just stupid, and just don't know it.

12-20-2009, 11:17 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-2997187	Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? By JASON WHITLOCK The Kansas City Star I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Loyalty? Fairness? You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited. On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs. Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse. It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory. “When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns. “When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch. “When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium. That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense. It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray. We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too. You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates. Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants. Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat? You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel. Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands. Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley? What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach? I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind. Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver. Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse. I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.
Posts: 43,453

12-22-2009, 01:41 AM	#412
L.A. Chieffan PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: American Gardens Building Casino cash: $2688654	Krumrie is garbage dude. We have arguably the worst dline in the nfl for many years running. why even bother
Posts: 17,400

12-22-2009, 04:41 AM	#419
Taco John Sapere Aude Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $427937	Pioli - or any GM - would be a moron to fire a new coach after one single year. But especially the Chiefs. Between Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards, your franchise was a walking corpse. That isn't going to be fixed in one season. What Haley brought back to KC was someone on the sidelines who channelled the frustration that Chiefs fans have been feeling for at least a decade onto the field. He has been great for you guys in that respect. He cusses, he cries, he cusses some more. He should be given at least as much time to install his program as Herm was given. He's not perfect, to be sure. Hell, who knows if he's even any good? But whatever he is, it isn't Herm Edwards. And Pioli isn't Carl Peterson. The disease that Carl installed into your franchise isn't going to go away overnight. To even ask the question about bringing Haley back shows a weakness of intellect to me. How can Whitlock not understand all the reasons why Haley should be given the opportunity to install his program? __________________ Ehyeh asher ehyeh. Donger's Razor: "The most establishment-friendly explanation that gives leftist and neocon politicians the most amount of cover is the only possible explanation, even when gaping holes and leaps of logic are required to get there."
Posts: 79,765