The MLB lockout thread

[Deberg_1990]

Discussssss

To our Fans:

I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together.

That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2.

I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions.

When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history.

We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams.

We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more.

To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that.

Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table.
Manfred

Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni

— MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021

Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W

— MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm open to trying anything that might change hitters approaches.

I still maintain that we need to push every fence in the game back at least 10 feet and arguably more. Cheap power is the biggest problem in the sport at the moment.

Too many guys swing hard and hope they hit it. And when they do, they're rewarded with these 365 ft homers.

A homerun needs to be EARNED. And by pushing the fences back, you're going to get massive outfields that allow faster players to be work the gaps. Additionally, you push OFers back more to keep balls from getting over their heads so there's more green in front of them. You start driving BABIPs up and you'll see guys spend more energy on putting the ball in play instead of just trying to hit them out.

And to counter that rise, you'll see more and more jackrabbits in the OF; guys who typically don't hit for a ton of power. That kind of player will then have to contribute in other ways. That can be by stealing bases.

Higher BABIPs = more balls in play = more action on the field.

Agreed. Solves a lot of problems. Home runs aren't exciting if all of these slugger strike out all the time. And pitchers are throwing their arms out. Also does wonders for parity because it places way more importance on defense and good bullpens.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Agreed. Solves a lot of problems. Home runs aren't exciting if all of these slugger strike out all the time. And pitchers are throwing their arms out. Also does wonders for parity because it places way more importance on defense and good bullpens.

I'd like to see the 'temporary DH' rule put in.

You get your DH for as long as your SP is in the game. It keeps that churn and burn bullpen shit from happening and thus encourages teams to have their pitchers conditioned to throw 6 or 7 innings instead of going all gas, no breaks for 5.

If pitchers are throwing at 90% for 7 innings instead of 100% for 5, they're going to give up more contact and again, more action. Now some teams will say 'hang the DH, we'll just rotate pinch hitters through and STILL have our starter go 5' but it's going to create more roster headaches at that point, especially when you've probably burned your best PH option on the DH to begin with and he's now out of the game.

Combine that with moving the fences back and reducing the shift (not necessarily eliminating it, but at least get that ****ing 2b out of the outfield) and you could do a TON for the product, IMO.

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm open to trying anything that might change hitters approaches.

I still maintain that we need to push every fence in the game back at least 10 feet and arguably more. Cheap power is the biggest problem in the sport at the moment.

Too many guys swing hard and hope they hit it. And when they do, they're rewarded with these 365 ft homers.

A homerun needs to be EARNED. And by pushing the fences back, you're going to get massive outfields that allow faster players to be work the gaps. Additionally, you push OFers back more to keep balls from getting over their heads so there's more green in front of them. You start driving BABIPs up and you'll see guys spend more energy on putting the ball in play instead of just trying to hit them out.

And to counter that rise, you'll see more and more jackrabbits in the OF; guys who typically don't hit for a ton of power. That kind of player will then have to contribute in other ways. That can be by stealing bases.

Higher BABIPs = more balls in play = more action on the field.

Theo Epstein said that the pitching was so good these days -- high end velocity and filthy breaking stuff combined -- that most hitters thought their best chance to succeed was to barrel the ball up and go for the long ball. I think there's some truth to that.

Nick Madrigal is an interesting study. He's considered the most extreme contact hitter in the league, making contact 92% of the time last year.

His underlying power numbers are all underwhelming, barrel rate was 1% (league average is 8%, the really good sluggers are around 12%). Ground ball rate was 60% and fly ball rate was 20%, which is unheard of in today's game.

He had a 106 OPS+ and a 112 DRC+ with this approach, which includes a 5% walk rate. I doubt the clubs reward a player with a nine-digit salary with this profile. He's still just above average. It pays to slug.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

Theo Epstein said that the pitching was so good these days -- high end velocity and filthy breaking stuff combined -- that most hitters thought their best chance to succeed was to barrel the ball up and go for the long ball. I think there's some truth to that.

Nick Madrigal is an interesting study. He's considered the most extreme contact hitter in the league, making contact 92% of the time last year.

His underlying power numbers are all underwhelming, barrel rate was 1% (league average is 8%, the really good sluggers are around 12%). Ground ball rate was 60% and fly ball rate was 20%, which is unheard of in today's game.

He had a 106 OPS+ and a 112 DRC+ with this approach, which includes a 5% walk rate. I doubt the clubs reward a player with a nine-digit salary with this profile. He's still just above average. It pays to slug.

No question.

Unless/until those long fly balls that are presently homers become outs. Then the BIG power guys, the legit power hitters, will continue to get paid because that becomes a rare skill.

But these guys that are falling into 10-12 wall-scrapers a year are going to plummet in value as their OPS and OBP collapses when balls start landing in gloves. So they'll either need to figure out how to find a gap or bag groceries.

Right now there's just no reason to do anything OTHER than what these hitters are doing. It's just too hard to string hits together. Swinging early in the count and driving a single up the middle serves damn near no purpose at all. It doesn't tax the pitcher and it's gonna take 2 MORE hits to drive you in. And trying to get him over, around and in won't work because even if that happens with nobody out, SOMEBODY is going to K and you're probably going to end up stranding that runner at 3b.

To run manufacturing is damn near impossible. It's XBHs or bust. And with the shift being as aggressive as it is, not to mention small outfields, it's almost easier to hit a HR in many cases than a mere double.

Baseball's dicked up right now. And making those OFers bigger would help it a LOT.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No question.

Unless/until those long fly balls that are presently homers become outs. Then the BIG power guys, the legit power hitters, will continue to get paid because that becomes a rare skill.

But these guys that are falling into 10-12 wall-scrapers a year are going to plummet in value as their OPS and OBP collapses when balls start landing in gloves. So they'll either need to figure out how to find a gap or bag groceries.

Right now there's just no reason to do anything OTHER than what these hitters are doing. It's just too hard to string hits together. Swinging early in the count and driving a single up the middle serves damn near no purpose at all. It doesn't tax the pitcher and it's gonna take 2 MORE hits to drive you in. And trying to get him over, around and in won't work because even if that happens with nobody out, SOMEBODY is going to K and you're probably going to end up stranding that runner at 3b.

To run manufacturing is damn near impossible. It's XBHs or bust. And with the shift being as aggressive as it is, not to mention small outfields, it's almost easier to hit a HR in many cases than a mere double.

Baseball's dicked up right now. And making those OFers bigger would help it a LOT.

So you are suggesting Kauffman Stadium ball

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

So you are suggesting Kauffman Stadium ball

Yeah. Or Coors without the altitude. And while my first thought is "well maybe not quite that extreme..." I actually think that yeah, EXACTLY that extreme would make baseball a hell of a lot more entertaining. Chicks only digged the long-ball when it was rare. We are now firmly into 'if everybody is special, then nobody is special' territory.

When done leaguewide, it will force a change back to how the game used to be played with heightened focus on athleticism and intelligence. And there will still be room for power but it will come from truly powerful guys.

Baseball would be so much more fun if you had a whole slew of teams built like the '87 Cardinals w/ defense for days, insane speed and reasonable amounts of complementary power provided by true power hitters like Jack Clark.

Monsters like Jorge Soler will still hit the same number of bombs because when guys like him and Tatis and Ohtani him 'em, they stay hit.

But Marcus Semien hit 45 homers w/ an average distance of 388 feet. You give him Royals Stadiums dimensions (you can find overlays on this) and he'd have hit 27. That's...uh...substantial. Nick Castellanos would've dropped from 34 to 17. Ohtani would've hit 36, by contrast.

Essentially I want 30 to be the new 40, 40 to be the new 50 (remember when 50 bombs was incredible?) and so on. And a lot of these 20 HR hitters would be like 6-8 homerun hitters and I'm just fine with that. A guy like Tommy Edman who's a switch hitter with little more than dead red pull power shouldn't have 11 bombs - he should have 5 or 6. Ian Happ hit almost entirely wall-scrapers last year; guy should've had like 12 instead of 25.

Power hitters should be an exception, not the rule.

[dlphg9]

This isn't getting done today. No way.

[dlphg9]

And the MLBPA votes unanimously to decline MLBs proposal. I think it's pretty clear the owners were pushing bull shit last night.

[KChiefs1]

MLBPA is a bunch of greedy ****ers.

Wanting to raise the CBT would kill the Royals so **** them all.


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[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

And the MLBPA votes unanimously to decline MLBs proposal. I think it's pretty clear the owners were pushing bull shit last night.

Well, they’re basically hell-bent on a having a salary cap that isn’t a salary cap and the players don’t want that along with refusing to increase revenue split (I think players get 40% of revenue currently).

I don’t think we’ll have games until June or July.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Well, they’re basically hell-bent on a having a salary cap that isn’t a salary cap and the players don’t want that along with refusing to increase revenue split (I think players get 40% of revenue currently).

I don’t think we’ll have games until June or July.

Shut it down for the year.


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[chiefqueen]

NO DEAL. Expect ALL games through 5/1 to be cancelled at any moment. The earliest the season could start now is 5/2.

I do not EXPECT any negotiations to occur before 3/21. With fewer COVID restrictions and no spring training commitments this year, I expect the players to take advantage of their free time by attending conference and NCAA tourney games.

[Titty Meat]

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Well, they’re basically hell-bent on a having a salary cap that isn’t a salary cap and the players don’t want that along with refusing to increase revenue split (I think players get 40% of revenue currently).

I don’t think we’ll have games until June or July.

There is no formal 'revenue split' between players and owners as there is in the NFL.

There's a revenue sharing pool that's comprised of a percentage of gate receipts, but that's it.

If the players would lighten up on their dogmatic refusal to back off the 'no salary cap of any kind' stance, they could actually get a HARD revenue split. And in so doing it would benefit the rank and file players a great deal more than dicking around with the luxury tax would.

That's really just going to make the top of the market players more expensive. It will do very very little to impact baseball's middle class. A hard revenue split, OTOH, would.

[scho63]