Let's talk Wide Receivers - Page 29

kccrow · 04-21-2023, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

That's a freakin' Pro Day number, man. Many people consider Pro Day 40's to be around a 10th slower than laser timed combine numbers. So projecting that hand timed 40 to a laser timed 40 like what Flowers ran, yeah it's more realistically a a mid 4.5.

If the pro day was hand timed. Some are laser timed. I'm pretty sure it was hand timed but not 100%. It's probably around his average watching the tape. Sometimes he looks 4.35 and sometimes he looks 4.65. It's close enough. I really don't give two ****s if he's 4.39 or 4.59 in shorts to be honest. I honestly hate the 40 yard dash for just about everything. I'm much more interested in general in the things alot of these guys don't run, the shuttle and the 3-cone. His 3-cone was solid for his size. I like the tape enough to take him in round 1 and I like it more than I like most of the WRs in this class. The only two I'd take over him are JSN and Hyatt. Pretty simple for me.

kccrow · 04-21-2023, 11:50 AM

I gave you his nearest comp. CeeDee Lamb. Lamb finished 18th in the NFL last year in total YAC. They have nearly identical body types and measurables.

ToxSocks · 04-21-2023, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I gave you his nearest comp. CeeDee Lamb. Lamb finished 18th in the NFL last year in total YAC. They have nearly identical body types and measurables.

Nope. Totally disagree.

CeeDee Lamb is close in terms of height and weight (though he's an inch shorter and 10lbs lighter) but their build and game is not similar at all. At all. The build is totally different. Play style very different.

Height/Weight does not make for a comp. Game and playstyle does. If that were the case, CeeDee Lamb compares to Byron Pringle.

CeeDee Lamb isn't/wasn't some skinny legged, long torso, long arm'd dude. Very different builds.

There's no way you can look at CeeDee Lamb's college "tape" and say that's the same guy is Johnston. Nope.

Mecca · 04-21-2023, 11:54 AM

The only way you can be super high on Hyatt is if you believe you can coach him to achieve his upside because today he's an unpolished 1 trick pony.

The only way you get excited is if you believe you can coach this guy who is 6'1 200lbs with great speed to be a complete receiver, but it's all projection because today he isn't that guy.

He's by far the least polished of the guys listed in the top 5-7 receivers.

ToxSocks · 04-21-2023, 11:54 AM

Hell yeah, Steve Smith is in agreement with me. Steve Smith and Chris Simms are in Camp Detoxing. We see Zay the same exact way.

Mecca · 04-21-2023, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Hell yeah, Steve Smith is in agreement with me. Steve Smith and Chris Simms are in Camp Detoxing. We see Zay the same exact way.

You have to be really really careful with Chris Simms....Steve Smith also loves Josh Downs how about that one?

ToxSocks · 04-21-2023, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You have to be really really careful with Chris Simms....Steve Smith also loves Josh Downs how about that one?

Honestly havent studied Josh Downs at all aside from maybe once i watched him.

Mecca · 04-21-2023, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Honestly havent studied Josh Downs at all aside from maybe once i watched him.

Pull up his Steve Smith breakdown, you'd think he was a lock top 20 pick.

Mecca · 04-21-2023, 12:04 PM

To be fair Johnston played with Max Duggan who is total balls.

kccrow · 04-21-2023, 12:27 PM

Steve Smith is all about the small WRs. I'm not really into much of what he has for takes to be honest. Great player himself, not as much a great evaluator to me.

Flowers is very near his ceiling right now and so is Downs. I'm not all-in. I like them. I don't 1st round like them.

What's most funny to me is people talk about elevation, body catches, and dropped balls with Johnston then they write it off for Flowers. Or Hyatt runs by guys and it's "blown coverage" but when Flowers does it there's no complaints. **** all that.

Seeing through flaws with one prospect to value him in your head does not make them better than another prospect you choose to see the flaws in. I said it the other day, overanalyzing one prospect and focusing on nothing but flaws is an issue. Better be prepared to do the same for the ones you initially liked. There's a lot of flaws with Flowers too gents. You can have your preferences but I'm not listening to the equivalent flaws.

Mecca · 04-21-2023, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Steve Smith is all about the small WRs. I'm not really into much of what he has for takes to be honest. Great player himself, not as much a great evaluator to me.

Flowers is very near his ceiling right now and so is Downs. I'm not all-in. I like them. I don't 1st round like them.

What's most funny to me is people talk about elevation, body catches, and dropped balls with Johnston then they write it off for Flowers. Or Hyatt runs by guys and it's "blown coverage" but when Flowers does it there's no complaints. **** all that.

Seeing through flaws with one prospect to value him in your head does not make them better than another prospect you choose to see the flaws in. I said it the other day, overanalyzing one prospect and focusing on nothing but flaws is an issue. Better be prepared to do the same for the ones you initially liked. There's a lot of flaws with Flowers too gents. You can have your preferences but I'm not listening to the equivalent flaws.

Ok now to be fair, Flowers is working on a terrible team with nothing around him. The other team knows he's getting the ball as he's the only guy worth a damn.

Hyatt is being schemed open and he's working off of Cedric Tillman for space. Not to mention the other NFL players on his offense that Zay doesn't have.

kccrow · 04-21-2023, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Ok now to be fair, Flowers is working on a terrible team with nothing around him. The other team knows he's getting the ball as he's the only guy worth a damn.

Hyatt is being schemed open and he's working off of Cedric Tillman for space. Not to mention the other NFL players on his offense that Zay doesn't have.

Hyatt is being schemed open when he blows guys doors off? Mmk. Yeah, I don't subscribe to that theory.

Mecca · 04-21-2023, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

Hyatt is being schemed open when he blows guys doors off? Mmk. Yeah, I don't subscribe to that theory.

How many times does Hyatt have a contested release? He's doing a bunch of motion and stack releases where he's literally running free.

kccrow · 04-21-2023, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

How many times does Hyatt have a contested release? He's doing a bunch of motion and stack releases where he's literally running free.

Okay, and Flowers ran a lot of motion and operated from the Z. He got the same releases. What difference does it make?

At the end of the day what does Andy Reid do?

Do they not both fit this offense?

What do you think differentiates the two in Reid's offense?

Big TT · 04-25-2023, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

How many times does Hyatt have a contested release? He's doing a bunch of motion and stack releases where he's literally running free.

So...you don't think Andy can figure stuff out like that....LOL

04-21-2023, 11:50 AM	#2
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $2827078	I gave you his nearest comp. CeeDee Lamb. Lamb finished 18th in the NFL last year in total YAC. They have nearly identical body types and measurables.
Posts: 12,689

04-21-2023, 11:54 AM	#4
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2077050	The only way you can be super high on Hyatt is if you believe you can coach him to achieve his upside because today he's an unpolished 1 trick pony. The only way you get excited is if you believe you can coach this guy who is 6'1 200lbs with great speed to be a complete receiver, but it's all projection because today he isn't that guy. He's by far the least polished of the guys listed in the top 5-7 receivers.
Posts: 111,280

04-21-2023, 11:54 AM	#5
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $3874563	Hell yeah, Steve Smith is in agreement with me. Steve Smith and Chris Simms are in Camp Detoxing. We see Zay the same exact way. __________________ Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.
Posts: 64,766

04-21-2023, 12:04 PM	#9
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2077050	To be fair Johnston played with Max Duggan who is total balls.
Posts: 111,280

04-21-2023, 12:27 PM	#10
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $2827078	Steve Smith is all about the small WRs. I'm not really into much of what he has for takes to be honest. Great player himself, not as much a great evaluator to me. Flowers is very near his ceiling right now and so is Downs. I'm not all-in. I like them. I don't 1st round like them. What's most funny to me is people talk about elevation, body catches, and dropped balls with Johnston then they write it off for Flowers. Or Hyatt runs by guys and it's "blown coverage" but when Flowers does it there's no complaints. **** all that. Seeing through flaws with one prospect to value him in your head does not make them better than another prospect you choose to see the flaws in. I said it the other day, overanalyzing one prospect and focusing on nothing but flaws is an issue. Better be prepared to do the same for the ones you initially liked. There's a lot of flaws with Flowers too gents. You can have your preferences but I'm not listening to the equivalent flaws.
Posts: 12,689