Chiefs Clark Judge: Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves - Page 29

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-14-2009, 12:01 PM

Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves
May 13, 2009
By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11743195

Five boldest moves

Kansas City hiring Scott Pioli

Some people automatically put this one in the win column. Not me. Not after Charlie Weis fizzled at Notre Dame and Romeo Crennel bombed out in Cleveland. OK, so they were former New England coaches, and Pioli was a decorated GM. They still fall from the same tree. The question I have is this: How much was Pioli responsible for what happened in New England? "I guess we're about to find out," said one NFC general manager.

The good news is that Thomas Dimitroff had New England ties, too, and he circled the bases in his first turn as a GM in Atlanta. The bad news: Pioli's first draft with Kansas City: There are reaches everywhere. He also reversed the team's Get Young Now policy by adding 30-something discards like Bobby Engram, Zach Thomas, Monty Beisel and Mike Vrabel. You can do that when you're at or near the top, like New England. But this is a team that lost 23 of its last 25, for crying out loud.

Five biggest gambles

Kansas City acquiring Matt Cassel

I know what he did with New England. But that was the Patriots, and tell me where you find Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Richard Seymour and Bill Belichick in the 816 area code. Cassel was surrounded by a raft of talent on the field and on the sidelines in New England, and I'm still looking for that support group here. So he produced a couple of 400-yard passing games and won 10 of 15 starts. That was nice. But I want to see him reproduce it here. OK, I know what you're thinking: What do the Chiefs have to lose -- especially when all they surrendered for Cassel and Vrabel was a second-round draft pick? Try this: They're paying Cassel $14.65 million in guaranteed salary. If he turns out to be the next Scott Mitchell I know some bean counters in red suits who will demand explanations.

BigRock · 05-16-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Bledsoe ended up in Dallas, Pennington ends up in Miami, Testaverde all of that...

First, you can't compare any of those guys to Matt Cassel. He's a one-year starter, he's not a proven veteran.

It'd be like if Parcells had gone to Miami after the 2006 season and traded for Tony Romo, coming off Romo's season where he played 8-9 games. Would Parcells have been familiar with Romo? Sure. Would trading for Romo have guaranteed Parcells or the Dolphins anything? Wins? A steady, proven veteran presense? No. It would have been a gamble on a guy who got a brief opportunity and showed some potential, much as we've done with Cassel.

Second, Bledsoe and Vinny going to Dallas, Pennington going to Miami, these notable moves of bringing in a proven, familiar veteran to be the starter are moves made by Parcells himself. Belichick didn't do it. Payton didn't do it. Coughlin didn't do it. Why is the entire "tree" being painted with this brush? *And* there's plenty of examples where Parcells didn't do that.

There's far more examples of Parcells and his guys NOT using the "bring in a proven starting QB I know" method than there is to try making a big pattern out of it.

Third, the very notion of lumping Pioli in as a "Parcells tree guy" is a stretch. Pioli hasn't worked with Parcells for like 10 years. He's far more associated with the Belichick method of operation, and Belichick, not in Cleveland or New England, ever went out and signed a familiar veteran QB to be his starter. So what's the big problem?

This whole "They always bring in a vet QB they know" stuff has been getting floated by you and Hamas and some guys since the day the Cassel trade was made. There's nothing to it. There's never been anything to it. In no way does it apply to what happened with Matt Cassel.

orange · 05-16-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I like Heyward-Bey and that's just not a good example there's no way he should have gone there.

The funny thing about Heyward-Bey - there is one guy in America who should not have been surprised by that pick:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Heyward Bey is going top 20, IMO.

I'd have him ahead of Maclin and Crabtree.

Maclin has size and scheme issues, and is slower than DHB
Crabtree has far less size than reported, an injury concern, speed concerns, and scheme concerns.

I'd rank the receivers as

1. DHB
2. Maclin
3. Robiskie
4. Crabtree
5. Nicks

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-17-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THISmaqe

How so? Because they didn't trade down?

Like that has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the "Cassel is either your guy or he isn't" argument.

I'll address this in the morning (it's late and we just got home for a movie) but seriously Dude, I think you're misinterpreting nearly everything I've stated recently in this thread.

htismaqe · 05-17-2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'll address this in the morning (it's late and we just got home for a movie) but seriously Dude, I think you're misinterpreting nearly everything I've stated recently in this thread.

I didn't say you said that. Actually, OTWP did. You've parroted it somewhat, but he's the one that said that Cassel is either your guy or he isn't.

htismaqe · 05-17-2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Dmitroff didn't do things that way obviously but I don't count him as a Parcells guy...

You guys can say it's not true all you want. Bledsoe ended up in Dallas, Pennington ends up in Miami, Testaverde all of that...

If they can make a move for a guy they know they will, they strive for that super quick turn around.

You don't count Dmitroff as a Parcells guy?

How can anybody take you seriously when you just lop off guys that don't fit your argument.

This is exactly what I mean Mecca. You constantly and consistently move the goalpost to suit your argument. You can't admit you're wrong - it's an endless stream of caveats.

Furthermore, you pointed out three examples. I pointed out SEVEN.

Again, what the FACTS show is that the Parcells guys have used pretty much EVERY approach you can use to acquire QB's, including bringing in guys from their previous teams.

You want to act like that's their PRIMARY method, and the facts CLEARLY show that it's not.

Anyway, I'm done going on about this. The whole middle portion of this thread is proven more and more correct every time you post.

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-17-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THISmaqe

You don't count Dmitroff as a Parcells guy?

How can you? Seriously!

------------------------------------------------------------

1990-1991 (Canadian Scouting Coordinator) Saskatchewan Roughriders

1992: World League of American Football (Scout)

1993: Kansas City Chiefs (Part Time Scout)

1997-1997: Detroit Lions (Area Scout)

1998-2001: Cleveland Browns (College Scout)

2002: New England Patriots (National Scout)

2003-2007: New England Patriots (Director of College Scouting)

2008-Present: General Manager of the Atlanta Falcons

---------------------------------------------------------

So where do you see ANY association with Bill Parcells? Also, did you know that his father is lifelong football coach?

I think you have Dimitroff confused with someone else.

Mecca IS right: Dimitroff is NOT a Parcells guy.

**Reaper16** · 05-17-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

How can you? Seriously!

------------------------------------------------------------

1990-1991 (Canadian Scouting Coordinator) Saskatchewan Roughriders

1992: World League of American Football (Scout)

1993: Kansas City Chiefs (Part Time Scout)

1997-1997: Detroit Lions (Area Scout)

1998-2001: Cleveland Browns (College Scout)

2002: New England Patriots (National Scout)

2003-2007: New England Patriots (Director of College Scouting)

2008-Present: General Manager of the Atlanta Falcons

---------------------------------------------------------

So where do you see ANY association with Bill Parcells? Also, did you know that his father is lifelong football coach?

I think you have Dimitroff confused with someone else.

Mecca IS right: Dimitroff is NOT a Parcells guy.

True pwnage.

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-17-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THISmaqe

I didn't say you said that. Actually, OTWP did. You've parroted it somewhat, but he's the one that said that Cassel is either your guy or he isn't.

Of course I parroted it.

Haven't you heard? We're ALL the same guy but with different user names.

DaneMcCloud/Hamas/ChiefsCountry/OTWP58 - We're ALL the same GUY!

**SAUTO** · 05-17-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Threatened? Who threatened you?

not you

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-17-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

not you

Yeah, I just have fun with you, Mr. Sauto.

But someone seriously threatened you? It wasn't a joke?

If so, report it to the mods. That's bullshit.

**SAUTO** · 05-17-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, I just have fun with you, Mr. Sauto.

But someone seriously threatened you? It wasn't a joke?

If so, report it to the mods. That's bullshit.

i dont need to report anything. i'm good. ask stevie about it.

Just Passin' By · 05-17-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

There's a part of me that has a hard time buying that looking at what the Parcells tree guys usually do with their QB situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

How can you? Seriously!

------------------------------------------------------------

1990-1991 (Canadian Scouting Coordinator) Saskatchewan Roughriders

1992: World League of American Football (Scout)

1993: Kansas City Chiefs (Part Time Scout)

1997-1997: Detroit Lions (Area Scout)

1998-2001: Cleveland Browns (College Scout)

2002: New England Patriots (National Scout)

2003-2007: New England Patriots (Director of College Scouting)

2008-Present: General Manager of the Atlanta Falcons

---------------------------------------------------------

So where do you see ANY association with Bill Parcells? Also, did you know that his father is lifelong football coach?

I think you have Dimitroff confused with someone else.

Mecca IS right: Dimitroff is NOT a Parcells guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

True pwnage.

Pwnage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaching_tree

Quote:

Atlanta comes from the Parcells tree through its strongest branch - the Belichick branch. Bill Belichick was Bill Parcells' greatest pupil who began to teach his master new tricks, especially about how to build and maintain franchises during the salary cap era. Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff ran Belichick's personnel department for 6 years prior to taking the GM job in Atlanta for the 2008 season.

http://swampland.com/articles/view/t...coaching_trees

Quote:

Atlanta thought it had the Tuna signed, but Parcells wiggled free and headed for South Florida instead. Atlanta settled for a canny personnel man from the Parcells tree, Thomas Dimitroff, late of the Patriots' omniscient scouting department. Both men set about remaking their organizations to prize toughness, accountability, and smarts.

http://www.slate.com/id/2207755/

The issue with Dimitroff is that he's not a coach, not that he's not under the Parcells tree.

**Reaper16** · 05-17-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Pwnage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaching_tree

http://swampland.com/articles/view/t...coaching_trees

http://www.slate.com/id/2207755/

The issue with Dimitroff is that he's not a coach, not that he's not under the Parcells tree.

I think you missed the semantical argument. Of course he's a branch of the Parcells tree by virtue of him being brought into the tree by Belichick. But THISmaqe implied that Dimitroff is a "Parcells guy," which is not true.

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-17-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I think you missed the semantical argument. Of course he's a branch of the Parcells tree by virtue of him being brought into the tree by Belichick. But THISmaqe implied that Dimitroff is a "Parcells guy," which is not true.

And Dimitroff also had 12 years experience before working with Belichick. It's not like the guy started his career with Belichick or Parcells.

Just Passin' By · 05-17-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I think you missed the semantical argument. Of course he's a branch of the Parcells tree by virtue of him being brought into the tree by Belichick. But THISmaqe implied that Dimitroff is a "Parcells guy," which is not true.

Nothing semantical about it. Mecca tried to disown Dimitroff and THISmage wouldn't let him. Mecca's been wrong on his issue and is trying to wiggle out of it instead of just admitting the obvious.

Mecca's words that got it started were quite clear:

Quote:

the Parcells tree guys

05-14-2009, 12:01 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Clark Judge: Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves Rating smartest, boldest, scariest offseason moves May 13, 2009 By Clark Judge CBSSports.com Senior Writer http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11743195 Five boldest moves Kansas City hiring Scott Pioli Some people automatically put this one in the win column. Not me. Not after Charlie Weis fizzled at Notre Dame and Romeo Crennel bombed out in Cleveland. OK, so they were former New England coaches, and Pioli was a decorated GM. They still fall from the same tree. The question I have is this: How much was Pioli responsible for what happened in New England? "I guess we're about to find out," said one NFC general manager. The good news is that Thomas Dimitroff had New England ties, too, and he circled the bases in his first turn as a GM in Atlanta. The bad news: Pioli's first draft with Kansas City: There are reaches everywhere. He also reversed the team's Get Young Now policy by adding 30-something discards like Bobby Engram, Zach Thomas, Monty Beisel and Mike Vrabel. You can do that when you're at or near the top, like New England. But this is a team that lost 23 of its last 25, for crying out loud. Five biggest gambles Kansas City acquiring Matt Cassel I know what he did with New England. But that was the Patriots, and tell me where you find Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Richard Seymour and Bill Belichick in the 816 area code. Cassel was surrounded by a raft of talent on the field and on the sidelines in New England, and I'm still looking for that support group here. So he produced a couple of 400-yard passing games and won 10 of 15 starts. That was nice. But I want to see him reproduce it here. OK, I know what you're thinking: What do the Chiefs have to lose -- especially when all they surrendered for Cassel and Vrabel was a second-round draft pick? Try this: They're paying Cassel $14.65 million in guaranteed salary. If he turns out to be the next Scott Mitchell I know some bean counters in red suits who will demand explanations.
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