Saunders-haters: Why NOT Al?

[Mr. Kotter]

Why rebuild, when you can reload? Come on, hear me out on this....

I've read here and elsewhere, it's because CP doesn't "like" Saunders; or he has different politics than the rest of the FO. I've read that he's pissed off LJ; and that LJ is CP's boy. I've read Al gets too "cute" with his play calling. I've read he's already been a HC, and failed. While there may be some element of truth to each of those charges....as major reasons to not consider hiring Saunders, I just don't buy any of it.

This is football. While the team has suffered as a result of DV's neglect of the defense IMO, Al has done his job extremely well. Saunders has been a big part of some of the most consistently successful offenses in the history of the league. The Chief's offense the last five years has been a joy to watch--90% of the time. If Roaf comes back, filling Shields spot is the only significant task left to do on that side of the ball. Yes, developing a young tackle or two, finding a QBOTF, converting Wilson from TE to FB to replace TRich (or something like that-heh), and signing a quality back up for LJ, are all we would really need to do for the next two or three years on Offense. Very "doable" in my mind.

Now, having said that......something dramatic has to be done on the Defensive side of the ball. However, who's to say that with Saunders taking over, that he and CP won't be able to cherry-pick the coaches that are worth keeping, while at the same time hiring new coaches in key areas.....



Along with a couple of key additions to the defensive personnel, in the draft and in FA (provided we can clear the cap room) and I think we will have just reloaded, instead of rebuilding.

Thoughts, comments, or reactions?

[htismaqe]

Carl will hire Gunther to be HC before Al, so it's all moot anyway.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by chiefz

Why get cute? 9 yards to score and 1st and goal after moving the ball on the ground and previously scoring two rushing touchdowns (from 11 yards and 1 yard).

Johnson has problems with pass protection from lack of game experience in the NFL, everyone knows it. When Trent misses the previous pass because of pressure why the hell would you take your fullback out and run another pass play in that situation.

That's not Vermeil, thats Saunders.

and what about the other bazillion drives that did work?


what about the fact that we've had arguably the best offense in the league since Saunders 2nd season here?



the problem with this team is defense and overall coaching


Saunders and the offense is the single bright spot.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Why not?

I could see them dumping everyone but Gun, and maybe Karmelowicz.....

WTF would lead you to think that? It took them 2 years too long to get rid of Robinson, and they didn't even fire him.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by chiefz

Why get cute? 9 yards to score and 1st and goal after moving the ball on the ground and previously scoring two rushing touchdowns (from 11 yards and 1 yard).

Johnson has problems with pass protection from lack of game experience in the NFL, everyone knows it. When Trent misses the previous pass because of pressure why the hell would you take your fullback out and run another pass play in that situation.

That's not Vermeil, thats Saunders.

Now you are talking about "mixing it up"---the perpetual dilemma faced by all Offensive Coordinators.

If Offensive Coordinators become too predictable, that's the death of an offense. When mixing it and and getting cute works, OCs are a genius; when it doesn't work, they aren't "making adjustments" or should have gone with "what was working." It's a Catch 22 for them....

Do you go with "what works" and get stopped, as in the LJ four straight times at the goal line.....? Or do you "get cute" and score on 4th and goal at the goal-line--with no time-outs and 3 seconds on the clock.....no one really expected that

[chiefz]

Just for the record, I don't hate Saunders and I think he's a good offensive coordinator even though I do think he makes some bad decisions from time to time in situations where he expects perfect execution when its not likely.

I just don't really want to have another, perhaps even more offensive minded coach and continue on this greatest show on grass path with no defense to back it up.

We've spent so much money on offense over the years that we rarely had money to spend on defensive talent and for whatever reason most of it that we brought in stunk.

I'm also not real sure how well the current offense will work without extremely talented and atheletic linemen like Shields and Roaf who will eventually retire.

I would just rather have Saunders as a coordinator with a head coach that was geared towards fixing the defense while keeping the running game in tact.

I would really hate to go through what the Rams went through post Vermeil with an over anxious offensive coordinator that thought he could outwit everyone.

[Chiefnj]

Originally Posted by chiefz

Why get cute? 9 yards to score and 1st and goal after moving the ball on the ground and previously scoring two rushing touchdowns (from 11 yards and 1 yard).

Johnson has problems with pass protection from lack of game experience in the NFL, everyone knows it. When Trent misses the previous pass because of pressure why the hell would you take your fullback out and run another pass play in that situation.

That's not Vermeil, thats Saunders.

Since when is taking a simple 5 step drop to pass the ball "getting cute"?
The Chiefs had been moving the ball in the air and on the ground.
LJ was asked to block or chip Scott F'n Fujita - not Merriman, not Freeney, not Jason Taylor, not Michael Strahan. If they can't rely on him to block an at best average linebacker they better grab a HB in the first round of the draft this year.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by Brock

WTF would lead you to think that? It took them 2 years too long to get rid of Robinson, and they didn't even fire him.

Four words for you:

Dick Vermiel is gone.

[Simply Red]

Originally Posted by Laz

top 3 offense for almost his entire tenure and he did it without a stud receiver.


not bad in my book

Nice work.

[Simplex3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

I say change a lot of the coaches and players. Keep the ones who've been successful is what I'm saying....

I'd say 10-12 players need cut; and an equal number of coaches....I think that would go along way toward "righting" the ship, if those cut are the ones deserving of being shown the door:

Bartee, Bell, Woods, Hicks, etc.....Guinta, Dean, Hairston, etc.....maybe Wesley and Sims, maybe Gun and Karmelowicz....

I think the current stench is contagious. Anyone who has been here for the whole thing and has been one of DV's guys is infected and needs to go. If not then the stench may be knocked down a notch but it will continue to breed and reappear at the worst possible time.

[chiefz]

Originally Posted by Laz

and what about the other bazillion drives that did work?


what about the fact that we've had arguably the best offense in the league since Saunders 2nd season here?



the problem with this team is defense and overall coaching


Saunders and the offense is the single bright spot.

I don't think anyone could argue that since Saunders AND Vermeil have been here the offense has been one of the best in the league, primarily due to an extremely athletic offensive line and a very good running game. Our bread an butter has been running off left tackle, running to the edges and screen passes throughout most of that time.

We've also had one of the worst defenses in the league throughout that time, a big reason for it is the highlight on the offense and the big money spent there.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Four words for you:

Dick Vermiel is gone.

Uh-huh. and before that, it was Gunther who had Kurt Schottenheimer and Jimmy Raye forced on him.

Like I said, why do you think the chiefs are going to suddenly change the way they've always done business?

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by chiefz

I would just rather have Saunders as a coordinator with a head coach that was geared towards fixing the defense while keeping the running game in tact.

i doubt that's gonna happen

we aren't going to keep saunders has OC and go out and hire a Head coach.


we either promote Al or he's gone imo ... been too many teams snooping around about giving him a HC chance.

[chiefz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Now you are talking about "mixing it up"---the perpetual dilemma faced by all Offensive Coordinators.

If Offensive Coordinators become too predictable, that's the death of an offense. When mixing it and and getting cute works, OCs are a genius; when it doesn't work, they aren't "making adjustments" or should have gone with "what was working." It's a Catch 22 for them....

Do you go with "what works" and get stopped, as in the LJ four straight times at the goal line.....? Or do you "get cute" and score on 4th and goal at the goal-line--with no time-outs and 3 seconds on the clock.....no one really expected that

Well lets see, thus far we moved the ball on the ground effectively in the endzone, we needed to take time off the clock and were in a perfect position to score.

Don't you at least attempt a run on first and goal on the 9 yard line?

[picasso]

I believe that what happened in NY has a lot to do with offense as well as the defense. Al ran LJ on the left side or up the middle constantly but more to the left behind Roaf on the weak side. When they ran on the right side (the side that Welbourn was manhandling Strahan), the strong side, LJ had space to work with and made some great gains but that was to far and few between. The obsession that Al gets with a specific package is exhausting and at best futile. It tends to narrow the opportunities to succeed for our offense. It showed in the Buffalo game, the conservativeness of the paralell package inserted in the 2nd half of the Philly game, and it killed us in NY Saturday. His lack of trust in what hasn't yet been proven has been the Chiefs demise. The defense on the other hand, each individual in each position has to be trusted to do their part and the culmination of both failures Saturday spelled disaster for us. I do not want Saunders as a HC for the Chiefs for that reason. I want DV to retire and we need to clean house of the assistant defensive coaches and allow Gunther to hire his own. I like Gunther, his aggresiveness, his fire and passion. We need an offensive minded head coach that allows Trent to also call his own audibles and make changes on the line. We need a deep threat receiver to draw the attention from our TE's and make LBs drop back to allow space for LJ to cut and run. And quite possibly a QB that has the deep ball threat that Trent doesn't have.

[chiefz]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Since when is taking a simple 5 step drop to pass the ball "getting cute"?
The Chiefs had been moving the ball in the air and on the ground.
LJ was asked to block or chip Scott F'n Fujita - not Merriman, not Freeney, not Jason Taylor, not Michael Strahan. If they can't rely on him to block an at best average linebacker they better grab a HB in the first round of the draft this year.

Getting cute is a singleback formation with 4 wide on 2nd and goal from the 9 yard line with a minute on the clock after the previous pass play failed primarily due to pressure on the QB.

I'm sorry but 1st and 10 on the 20, sure, 1st and goal on the 9, timeout, 2nd and goal on the 9, you pull your fullback when the protection previsouly broke down while he was in and pass again. Thats just silly.