Chiefs Explain to me why we need to give Herm more time - Page 3

**Dave Lane** · 12-17-2007, 11:14 AM

After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this.

Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures:

Tom Bettis - 1977
Frank Gansz - 1987-1988
Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000
Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977
John Mackovic - 1983-1986

Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past.

Dave

Micjones · 12-17-2007, 11:41 AM

I think we can all agree that he should be given free reign and not have to operate under the same ideologies as the previous regime.

But at the same time, I've seen him make mistakes that are inexcusable no matter who the personnel or staff is.

Mecca · 12-17-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

I don't even want Cowher here, honestly. He reeks of the Marty/Herm school. And he wouldn't have the super bowl ring either, except for the most poorly officiated game in super bowl history.

Get someone that works with Polian or Pioli, those guys are by far the best GM's in the game. Not to mention from Polians time in Buffalo spawned several successful GM's that were his assistants.

**Dave Lane** · 12-17-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Good thing you're not Clark.

I don't think Cowher would come here even for that amount. TheRooney's offered him a substantial raise to stick around, and he still retired.

He didn't leave a great franchise with a great young roster to start a rebuilding project.

He's been here before said he loved it. And he said he would take 2 years off coaching. That means he would be available in 08.

Dave

Coogs · 12-17-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Yep he even called Gun and asked him if he was ready to get started.

Dave

And what else would you do in CP told you your DC was going to be Gun?
I still buy into the Gun has compromising pictures stashed away.

Mr. Laz · 12-17-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wile_E_Coyote

Why would he come here? San Diego is his if he wants it or for that matter several teams would drop their dead weight if he was interested

wow .. well if that's your attitude then we better just hire Gunther as HC and be done with it.

i mean seeing as KC is such a shit hole.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-17-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I think we can all agree that he should be given free reign and not have to operate under the same ideologies as the previous regime.

But at the same time, I've seen him make mistakes that are inexcusable no matter who the personnel or staff is.

Very true.

I think his ideology of how to build a franchise are dead on.

I don't think Carl Peterson shares that "vision" to share from another thread.

Could he be successful rebuilding with CP out of the picture?

Absolutely, IMO.

But some of his gameday mistakes are inexcusable.

**banyon** · 12-17-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Get someone that works with Polian or Pioli, those guys are by far the best GM's in the game. Not to mention from Polians time in Buffalo spawned several successful GM's that were his assistants.

Who would you want them to pick at coach?

Mecca · 12-17-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Very true.

I think his ideology of how to build a franchise are dead on.

I don't think Carl Peterson shares that "vision" to share from another thread.

Could he be successful rebuilding with CP out of the picture?

Absolutely, IMO.

But some of his gameday mistakes are inexcusable.

I don't think he'd be overly successful because so far he's shown he's not a great drafter......at best his first day draft picks are 50/50. He also favors defense to offense, with personnel and coaching and in todays game with all of the rules changes it favors the elite offense/good defense teams. Not the elite defense/alright offense teams.

The best way I can put it is, I think if Herm had a team he'd want to be like it would be the Jaguars. For as many games as they win in the regular season and make the playoffs every year...does anyone think they'll get get past Indy and NE? They can't even beat out Indy for the division.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-17-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

wow .. well if that's your attitude then we better just hire Gunther as HC and be done with it.

i mean seeing as KC is such a shit hole.

C'mon Laz.....

People are living in a fantasy world if they think Cowher would choose to come here.

Some seem to think you can just throw a ridiculous amount of money at him and he'll come here just because he was here before. That's ridiculous.

He didn't leave one of the best franchises in the NFL to sit out 2 years and take over a reclamation project.

Cowher is a coach who's going to be looking for a team that is right on the cusp of a SB appearance/win.

The KC job is perfect for a young guy who has the smarts and motivation to rebuild this thing the right way. A guy who can build his resume.

Wile_E_Coyote · 12-17-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

wow .. well if that's your attitude then we better just hire Gunther as HC and be done with it.

i mean seeing as KC is such a shit hole.

Head coaches have to have big egos. But how many have rebuilt two teams & been successful at it? With San Diego setting there loaded with talent. Why not go for a bust in canton?

**Dave Lane** · 12-17-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

C'mon Laz.....

People are living in a fantasy world if they think Cowher would choose to come here.

Some seem to think you can just throw a ridiculous amount of money at him and he'll come here just because he was here before. That's ridiculous.

He didn't leave one of the best franchises in the NFL to sit out 2 years and take over a reclamation project.

Cowher is a coach who's going to be looking for a team that is right on the cusp of a SB appearance/win.

The KC job is perfect for a young guy who has the smarts and motivation to rebuild this thing the right way. A guy who can build his resume.

KC is perfect for a guy who wants to be in total charge (Assuming CP is executed along with Herm) and wants to show the world he can turn chicken shit into Chicken salad.

While taking over the Patriots might appeal to you, some people enjoy the challenge of building something that will knock off #1.

And the Chiefs are not that far away once the CP on down is replaced.

Dave

Mr. Arrowhead · 12-17-2007, 11:58 AM

I think Herm should get one more year, just because i think we will have a lot more talent on this team next year. To be honest Bill Belichick couldnt have won with the talent we have this year.

dallaschiefsfan · 12-17-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You know why the Colts win and why Dungy could never win in Tampa, Peyton Manning. You wanna play that the Chiefs are gonna get Manning? Also they have a GM that told Dungy he wasn't allowed to change the offense...

Also when Dungy in the past tried to pull typical Dungy moves Manning would overrule him. So until we get a QB with enough sack and enough stroke to tell the coach to suck it, we won't win.

This is the straight up truth. The idea that Herm would be more effective if he wasn't so held back...well...that's just crap. Dungy is the Herm model. He will always have to be controlled by a GM and given parameters. The only problem...Carl probably isn't the GM he needs and Croyle isn't Manning...as already noted.

Now...there's also the matter of game-day management w/ Herm vs. Dungy. Wait a minute...how many babysitters would that be for Herm?

Seriously...at some point, you just aren't a legit NFL coach. Great DC, though.

ChiefsCountry · 12-17-2007, 12:54 PM

Cowher is going to Carolina.

Eleazar · 12-17-2007, 01:03 PM

This team sucks because our General Manager has neglected the roster since the Vermeil era. It doesn't suck because of Herm.

12-17-2007, 11:14 AM
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Explain to me why we need to give Herm more time After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this. Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures: Tom Bettis - 1977 Frank Gansz - 1987-1988 Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000 Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977 John Mackovic - 1983-1986 Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past. Dave
Posts: 40,584

12-17-2007, 11:41 AM	#31
Micjones Whose house? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $10005180	I think we can all agree that he should be given free reign and not have to operate under the same ideologies as the previous regime. But at the same time, I've seen him make mistakes that are inexcusable no matter who the personnel or staff is.
Posts: 15,344

12-17-2007, 11:58 AM	#42
Mr. Arrowhead MVP Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10015708	I think Herm should get one more year, just because i think we will have a lot more talent on this team next year. To be honest Bill Belichick couldnt have won with the talent we have this year.
Posts: 7,763

12-17-2007, 12:54 PM	#44
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1581248	Cowher is going to Carolina.
Posts: 52,126

12-17-2007, 01:03 PM	#45
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	This team sucks because our General Manager has neglected the roster since the Vermeil era. It doesn't suck because of Herm.
Posts: 80,659