Flanagan: Glass likes way Royals are playing the game - Page 3

Deberg_1990 · 04-11-2008, 08:46 AM

Personally, Glass should be the last person to ask for advice on how to win a pennant.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/col...ry/570924.html

You won’t get Royals owner David Glass to gloat. Not yet at least.

But deep down inside, you know Glass is loving the fact that his small-market Royals with a payroll under $60 million have had their way with the big-spending Tigers — the Yankees of the Central Division — and the financially-bloated Yankees themselves.

As always, Glass is preaching the message of spending money wisely (something the Royals haven’t always done, mind you).

“It really comes down to the fundamentals,” Glass told me. “The Twins have proven over the years that (it’s not about payroll). If you execute and play the fundamentals and don’t beat yourselves, you can compete and you can win.

“What I have liked so far is that we’re not beating ourselves. Last year and the year before, you could sense that there were games we lost just because we beat ourselves. I think we’ll do a lot less of that this season.”

Trying to buy a pennant — something the Tigers obviously think they can do — isn’t necessarily the guaranteed route to go.

“Smaller markets can’t do financially what the bigger markets can do,” Glass said. “But we can compete if we execute. That’s why I really like our new manager and what he’s trying to accomplish.

“You take the players you have and get the most out of them and then if you need to possibly add another piece (in August), you can still do that.”

Guillen’s influence

Glass did drop $36 million on one piece to the puzzle — cleanup hitter Jose Guillen. So what does Glass think of that investment?

“I think he’s going to be fine,” Glass said, “and I think he’s going to end up being a good influence on our younger players. I really do.”

beavis · 04-12-2008, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

We're at 58 mil right now. I'm saying we should spend stupidly, but, in the short term, this team must overpay to get results. I know we went pretty hard at Hunter this offseason, but we have to be the team that comes in a blows a top-notch player away with a package, not the Angels. Same thing with drafts. We must be willing to draft the best player, not caring too much about slot.

Maybe it's just me, but I think this is the kind of thing we need to avoid doing. I would have liked to have had Hunter as much as the next guy, but I think there's a good chance his production starts to decline towards the end of that contract. Sign guys while they in their mid to late 20's, while they are ascending, not decending in terms of production.

keg in kc · 04-12-2008, 06:32 AM

The Royals payroll is actually 68 million. Back when Dutton reported the payroll on opening day roster as 57.4 million, he only included the actual 25-man roster that day and didn't include guaranteed money the Royals still owe other players (even if they're not on the 25-man roster...) like Berroa, Hochevar, De la Rosa, and a few others. Combined that adds another 10 million to the payroll.

And they've already started overpaying, for guys like Meche last season (who looks like a total bust right now, damnit) and Guiillen this year.

Keep in mind how much of an increase 68 million really is over Royals payrolls in recent years. Their 2005 payroll was 36 million, and their 2006 payroll was 47 million. This year's is roughly comparable to last year's, an increase of more than 30 million in four years.

**DeezNutz** · 04-12-2008, 11:14 AM

Keg (good catch regarding the numbers) and Beavis both make good points. But I still contend that we haven't changed the public perception of the franchise. I agree that Meche and Guillen are a great start, and I'm certainly happy about these moves, but these aren't cornerstone-type players. We need to make a move akin to Pudge to the Tigers. Splashy (and sensible) move that catches everyone's attention.

Hunter could be on the downslope of his career, I agree. But getting him to KC, in my opinion, would have opened the door for others. Players around the league would then be sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that KC was serious about winning.

All this could be moot, I admit, if Dayton ends up being the best GM in the game. He'll find a way to get in done in KC, while working with a limited budget. Still, this is asking an awful lot. Dayton seems to be really good, but we can't expect him to be a magician. At some point, we'll need serious dollars to be serious contenders. Payroll cannot equal the money we get via revenue sharing.

keg in kc · 04-12-2008, 11:20 AM

You mention the Tigers, and I think what they're doing is following a pattern similar to what Detroit did, where they slowly built up the payroll while bringing a bunch of minor leaguers along. Then when everything's in place, they spend money on guys like Ivan Rodriguez and Kenny Rogers, the last pieces of the puzzle.

They need to find their Pudge in 2009 or 2010; 2008's a little premature, I think. They need more development from Gordon and Butler and the young pitchers before they take that next step. And my guess is that's what they think, too, and all of this will be timed to coincide with the end of the renovations.

milkman · 04-12-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Keg (good catch regarding the numbers) and Beavis both make good points. But I still contend that we haven't changed the public perception of the franchise. I agree that Meche and Guillen are a great start, and I'm certainly happy about these moves, but these aren't cornerstone-type players. We need to make a move akin to Pudge to the Tigers. Splashy (and sensible) move that catches everyone's attention.

Hunter could be on the downslope of his career, I agree. But getting him to KC, in my opinion, would have opened the door for others. Players around the league would then be sure, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that KC was serious about winning.

All this could be moot, I admit, if Dayton ends up being the best GM in the game. He'll find a way to get in done in KC, while working with a limited budget. Still, this is asking an awful lot. Dayton seems to be really good, but we can't expect him to be a magician. At some point, we'll need serious dollars to be serious contenders. Payroll cannot equal the money we get via revenue sharing.

I'd rather have home grown players as my cornerstone players.

Free agency and trades should be used to fill holes where necessary, and to make late season runs.

tk13 · 04-12-2008, 11:34 AM

I'm pretty sure Dayton has said that he plans for the payroll to be in the 80ish million dollar range within about two years, which would be about middle of the pack, which is perfectly fine. That will take the team playing well and fans coming out to the renovated K.

They probably came pretty close to getting there this year. We had the highest offer on the table for Torii Hunter until the Angels came in at the very last minute and swooped him away. And as much as people want to spend money, there's just no way to justify beating the Angels offer and giving Hunter $20 million a year.... that's just too much. Then people would complain about spending money poorly when Hunter was 36-37 years old (just like they did with Sweeney) And if I'm not mistaken, we did have the highest offer on the table for Kuroda, but he went West Coast and took less money to play in LA. Either one of those two would've upped the payroll quite a bit and the Royals would've been middle of the pack in payroll, but it just didn't work out.

At least we've gotten to the point where FA's will seriously consider KC, now we just need to continue playing decently, even if it's .500 ball, just to make the big FA's think they can come and help push the team into playoff contention. Once that happens, the Royals will probably be in that middle ground where most teams stand in-between the Yankees/Red Sox/Tigers and Marlins/Pirates groups.

Demonpenz · 04-12-2008, 11:36 AM

Is meche really a bust? I think he will be fine

keg in kc · 04-12-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

Is meche really a bust? I think he will be fine

'Bust' might have been a little strong, since he pitched well last season, but I don't think he's going to have a good year. The question is going to be whether Bannister or Grienke can allow the Royals to drop him in the roation.

And even if he doesn't have last year's ERA, I'd like to think we can still count on him to effectively eat innings. But if his first 3 starts are any indication, it's going to be a long year.

Demonpenz · 04-12-2008, 11:40 AM

as long as meche can give us some innings that will be worth it

**DeezNutz** · 04-12-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You mention the Tigers, and I think what they're doing is following a pattern similar to what Detroit did, where they slowly built up the payroll while bringing a bunch of minor leaguers along. Then when everything's in place, they spend money on guys like Ivan Rodriguez and Kenny Rogers, the last pieces of the puzzle.

They need to find their Pudge in 2009 or 2010; 2008's a little premature, I think. They need more development from Gordon and Butler and the young pitchers before they take that next step. And my guess is that's what they think, too, and all of this will be timed to coincide with the end of the renovations.

I agree that this would be an ok plan, but I don't believe that this is what Pudge did for the Tigers. His first season with them was 2004, the year after the team went for a near record 43-119 in 2003. I don't know enough about other mitigating factors, but he wasn't coming as the final piece of anything, since the organization was a turd at the time. Once Pudge arrived, this signaled that big changes were occuring in Detroit.

We certainly need the players we've drafted highly to develop. Gordon must be a high-quality everyday player. Butler must continue to develop (though he's pretty bad ass right now). All I'm saying is that I don't think we can understate the impact of a stud FA, even if a team must overpay to get him. Hypothetically, if a Santana type shakes free in the off-season, there are worse things a team could do than to overpay by 3 mil or so to get him.

**DeezNutz** · 04-12-2008, 12:06 PM

Regarding Meche, in an ideal world I think he's a number 3, maybeeeee a number 2 starter, but I'm still happy we have him.

Deberg_1990 · 04-12-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Regarding Meche, in an ideal world I think he's a number 3, maybeeeee a number 2 starter, but I'm still happy we have him.

I agree. Hes a solid "innings eater" but im not sure he will ever be elite. Hes going to be one of those Tim Belcher types: 12-15 wins a year. 200+ innings.

Maybe Greinke or Bannister will develop into a #1 this year??

**DeezNutz** · 04-12-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Maybe Greinke or Bannister will develop into a #1 this year??

I'm hoping for the same thing. Through their first two starts, either or both look like they're more than capable.

tk13 · 04-12-2008, 12:13 PM

It's possible Meche could have a bad year, but I think some of it is Royals fans are just used to one-hit wonders happening. We'll see.... but I don't think Meche is like a Darrell May or Paul Byrd.... his stuff is so much better than guys like that, and he's a smart pitcher. For the first time in ages the entire pitching staff actually has good stuff, guys who don't throw junk, aren't lazy, etc. That doesn't mean they'll all pitch well but the chances are certainly better.

Deberg_1990 · 04-12-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

It's possible Meche could have a bad year, but I think some of it is Royals fans are just used to one-hit wonders happening. We'll see.... but I don't think Meche is like a Darrell May or Paul Byrd.... his stuff is so much better than guys like that, and he's a smart pitcher. For the first time in ages the entire pitching staff actually has good stuff, guys who don't throw junk, aren't lazy, etc. That doesn't mean they'll all pitch well but the chances are certainly better.

IM not sure what it is about Meche. Hes got good stuff, but do teams just not score for him???

Look at his past. hes always been a 10-15 wins a season guy. His career ERA isnt that great.

04-11-2008, 08:46 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $234454	Flanagan: Glass likes way Royals are playing the game Personally, Glass should be the last person to ask for advice on how to win a pennant. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/col...ry/570924.html You won’t get Royals owner David Glass to gloat. Not yet at least. But deep down inside, you know Glass is loving the fact that his small-market Royals with a payroll under $60 million have had their way with the big-spending Tigers — the Yankees of the Central Division — and the financially-bloated Yankees themselves. As always, Glass is preaching the message of spending money wisely (something the Royals haven’t always done, mind you). “It really comes down to the fundamentals,” Glass told me. “The Twins have proven over the years that (it’s not about payroll). If you execute and play the fundamentals and don’t beat yourselves, you can compete and you can win. “What I have liked so far is that we’re not beating ourselves. Last year and the year before, you could sense that there were games we lost just because we beat ourselves. I think we’ll do a lot less of that this season.” Trying to buy a pennant — something the Tigers obviously think they can do — isn’t necessarily the guaranteed route to go. “Smaller markets can’t do financially what the bigger markets can do,” Glass said. “But we can compete if we execute. That’s why I really like our new manager and what he’s trying to accomplish. “You take the players you have and get the most out of them and then if you need to possibly add another piece (in August), you can still do that.” Guillen’s influence Glass did drop $36 million on one piece to the puzzle — cleanup hitter Jose Guillen. So what does Glass think of that investment? “I think he’s going to be fine,” Glass said, “and I think he’s going to end up being a good influence on our younger players. I really do.”
Posts: 68,510

04-12-2008, 06:32 AM	#32
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	The Royals payroll is actually 68 million. Back when Dutton reported the payroll on opening day roster as 57.4 million, he only included the actual 25-man roster that day and didn't include guaranteed money the Royals still owe other players (even if they're not on the 25-man roster...) like Berroa, Hochevar, De la Rosa, and a few others. Combined that adds another 10 million to the payroll. And they've already started overpaying, for guys like Meche last season (who looks like a total bust right now, damnit) and Guiillen this year. Keep in mind how much of an increase 68 million really is over Royals payrolls in recent years. Their 2005 payroll was 36 million, and their 2006 payroll was 47 million. This year's is roughly comparable to last year's, an increase of more than 30 million in four years.
Posts: 58,682

04-12-2008, 11:20 AM	#34
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	You mention the Tigers, and I think what they're doing is following a pattern similar to what Detroit did, where they slowly built up the payroll while bringing a bunch of minor leaguers along. Then when everything's in place, they spend money on guys like Ivan Rodriguez and Kenny Rogers, the last pieces of the puzzle. They need to find their Pudge in 2009 or 2010; 2008's a little premature, I think. They need more development from Gordon and Butler and the young pitchers before they take that next step. And my guess is that's what they think, too, and all of this will be timed to coincide with the end of the renovations.
Posts: 58,682

04-12-2008, 11:34 AM	#36
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1767500	I'm pretty sure Dayton has said that he plans for the payroll to be in the 80ish million dollar range within about two years, which would be about middle of the pack, which is perfectly fine. That will take the team playing well and fans coming out to the renovated K. They probably came pretty close to getting there this year. We had the highest offer on the table for Torii Hunter until the Angels came in at the very last minute and swooped him away. And as much as people want to spend money, there's just no way to justify beating the Angels offer and giving Hunter $20 million a year.... that's just too much. Then people would complain about spending money poorly when Hunter was 36-37 years old (just like they did with Sweeney) And if I'm not mistaken, we did have the highest offer on the table for Kuroda, but he went West Coast and took less money to play in LA. Either one of those two would've upped the payroll quite a bit and the Royals would've been middle of the pack in payroll, but it just didn't work out. At least we've gotten to the point where FA's will seriously consider KC, now we just need to continue playing decently, even if it's .500 ball, just to make the big FA's think they can come and help push the team into playoff contention. Once that happens, the Royals will probably be in that middle ground where most teams stand in-between the Yankees/Red Sox/Tigers and Marlins/Pirates groups.
Posts: 56,667

04-12-2008, 11:36 AM	#37
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-293864	Is meche really a bust? I think he will be fine __________________
Posts: 54,947

04-12-2008, 11:40 AM	#39
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-293864	as long as meche can give us some innings that will be worth it __________________
Posts: 54,947

04-12-2008, 12:13 PM	#44
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1767500	It's possible Meche could have a bad year, but I think some of it is Royals fans are just used to one-hit wonders happening. We'll see.... but I don't think Meche is like a Darrell May or Paul Byrd.... his stuff is so much better than guys like that, and he's a smart pitcher. For the first time in ages the entire pitching staff actually has good stuff, guys who don't throw junk, aren't lazy, etc. That doesn't mean they'll all pitch well but the chances are certainly better.
Posts: 56,667