How Should the US Respond - Page 3

Frazod · 09-12-2001, 10:35 PM

I'm kind of surprised that no one's done this yet (unless it's buried) but I'm curious where the majority weighs in.

Fat Elvis · 09-13-2001, 10:07 AM

Right after the attack, you stated that you doubt that the US would do what it takes to make sure that this would never happen again. Yet now, you are reluctant to attack Iraq.

Part of the neccesary action to make sure that this doesn't happen again would be toppling regimes that have a history of state sponsored terrorism. Whether or not Iraq was definatively involved in this particular act of terrorism seems irrelevant. Supposedly the war is against "terrorism" not just the perpetrators of this act; if that is the case, you need to take out and make an example of a country that sponsors these types of activities.

You cannot do a search on the web for "state sponsored terrorism" and not have the word Iraq appear in the article.

From a militaristic and strategic standpoint, making Saddam and Iraq our whipping boys for this action (rightly or wrongly) makes a lot more sense than a full scale invasion into Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a complete and total mess--ask Russia about that.
There definately needs to be a response in Afghanistan; hit them long and hit them hard, but the military presense should be minimal as we are not prepared to fight that type of war. We simply do not have the infrastructure to logistically support a sustained campaign in that region. Soften them up with bombing, supply the rebels with whatever arms they want, and use covert operations to take out leaders

Iraq presents a whole other scenario militarily. We are already there. We have bases nearby. We have the infrastructure in place for a sustained attack. We should take down Saddam once and for all and cripple Iraq's military machine for good.

HC_Chief · 09-13-2001, 10:15 AM

FE - I agree completely. Provide support to MujaHadin and let them take out the Taliban for us.

Gaz - I agree that what is reported by the worldtribune is 'not good enough'. No one should expect action based on rumor or innuendo... I'm sure we've taken the information into consideration and are looking into every possible lead.

Gaz · 09-13-2001, 10:17 AM

Fat Elvis-

If I gave that impression, I erred in my typing.

If Iraq indeed financed and organized this attack, then I would declare war on Iraq and destroy them utterly.

My point was that "seems the most reasonable [candidate]" is not sufficient proof to act.

If Iraq was behind this in any way, shape or form, there is an evidence trail. As soon as our government is satisfied that the trail is established, Bush should immediately ask for a declaration of war. Then we should destroy the government of Iraq with the full and unfettered might of the US military and whichever nations chose to join us.

With that evidence, we are committing our forces to retaliation against a legitimate target, rather than just striking out at a country we don't like.

And we already know that Bin Laden is culpable in previous terrorist actions. We should now do what we lacked the will to do before. Tell the Taliban to surrender him and his henchmen. If they do not, then I take on Afghanistan as well.

Is that clearer? Often, in my haste to reply, I fail to compose quite as clearly as I would wish.

xoxo~
Gaz
Just another warmonger.

Packfan · 09-13-2001, 12:26 PM

What the US should do is give Afganistan 24 hours to produce Bin Laden. When they dont, we should buldoze our way through that country and any other country he flees to. If they do produce him, you hang him by his balls in public effigy in NYC. And then you bulldoze afganistan.

Its time to fight fire with fire. Its time to take STRONG action on the countries that produce these nuts. About 15 years ago, Lybians blew up a German disco where US soldiers hung out. Ronald Reagan orderd a cruise missle be sent into the living room of Khadafi's home, killing his daughter. Since then, Khadafi has been a model citizen. The United States prefers a more civil type of justice. Unfortunately, it hasnt worked. For the safety of American, its time to end terrorism once and for all. The only way you do this is to fight fire with fire. Forget trying to bring people to justice.

Its also time to end immigration in this country. Cuba sends us its prisoners, and the middle east sends us their terrorists. We welcome them in, only to have them turn on us.

The US has been to nice to the rest of the world. We need to take care of ourselves first.

stevieray · 09-13-2001, 12:31 PM

Nice post, Ken.

**ChiTown** · 09-13-2001, 12:31 PM

It pains me to agree with PackFan, but I just may have to do it.

To borrow a line from one of my favorite movies "Untouchables"

"They put one of your guys in the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue" (or something like that). Enough with the *****-footing. It's time to get down and dirty.

Frazod · 09-13-2001, 12:43 PM

That quote, from the Untouchables, is: "If he pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He's sends one of yours to the hospital, send one of his to the fucking morgue. THAT'S the Chicago way."

Another quote from that movie seems very appropriate for the way I feel about those responsible for this crap:

"I want him DEAD. I want his family DEAD. I want his house burnt to the GROUND. I wanna go there in the middle of the night and P1SS ON HIS ASHES!"

That pretty much sums up how I feel at the moment. I'm getting madder by the minute. Hope GW does something soon so I can get some sort of release for all this built up rage.

**ChiTown** · 09-13-2001, 12:52 PM

Thanks, Fraz!

I knew I f'd up the quote:o

It takes a "true" Chicagoan to pull that movie line out of his a s s

Right now, I'm so pissed, I could eat nails and spit out molten steel.

Let's hope our action is swift, strong and and accurate as hell.

Idahojim · 09-13-2001, 02:10 PM

My guess is when all is said and done that the folks at Rand McNally will be coming up for new names for Afghanistan and Iraq.

That aside, I wish that the result of all of this would be a worldwide special force (meanest Rambos from throughout the world) that would go in and wipe out ANY terrorists who attack ANY country.

International law should forbid terrorism against civilians - and there should be no tribunals or courts. Terrorize and you die. Nothing more. Nothing less.

That would at least bring some meaning to the senseless acts we've witnessed this week.

HC_Chief · 09-13-2001, 02:41 PM

jim - you should read Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six... it's pretty much about what you suggest. SAS, Mossad, Delta, SEAL, GH8, etc. in a combined SpcFor assault team.

Personally, I think it's a great idea!

Boise_Chief · 09-13-2001, 03:21 PM

The only way to actually respond is with everything we have. If you "send a message" It will only fuel them on. You have to Mount a WAR. Gather all info from intelligence agencies from through out the world and strike. Keep striking until you have no targets. With China and Russia in bed with us on this Warm up the ICBM's (Conventional war heads). It is hard to plan and execute an attack when you are hiding and running for your life. This is not a short term plan you would have to keep attacking for years maybe decades. Midnight hit squads invasions assasination everything. Pick up a big bat and play hard ball.

Boise.

Frazod · 09-13-2001, 06:42 PM

Moving this back to the front page.

I must say that I am happy to see no votes for negotiating or blustering.

I would also add that I've rethought my position on the tac nuke, and after calming down a bit (I was pretty pissed last night), realize that it would not be the smart move - too many people and countries whose support we will need in any action would be outraged and would at the least not help us. All I can say is that I'm a rather emotional guy, and have learned from hard experience that the initial, angry response is generally not the best one.

If I could change my vote, I would - to large scale conventional attack followed by occupation.

Mile High Mania · 09-13-2001, 07:02 PM

You know how world leaders and these types of people like to quote former leaders, authors, the bible, etc? Well, I'm waiting for the moment when Bush addresses the world and states his plan, something like...

"The people of America have spent the past 78 hours in anguish, saddened by the cowardly acts of terrorists nations. At this time, the United States, with full support of NATO and our allies, is prepared to retaliate with direct, decisive and unholy force. I have but one message for the individuals responsible for this act and the people harboring them. Quoting the great philosopher Booger ... 'I say we blow the ****ers up!' Good night and God bless America."

I hope nobody takes offense to that remark, and I also hope that you catch the movie reference. Anyway, I'm just ready to hear our plan of attack. This SOB must pay.

Raiderhater · 09-13-2001, 08:33 PM

I have been thinking about the best way to do this, and while I don't have a whole plan, I do have the strating stages.

First we send in a SpecForc group (I prefer pure American, I don't dig this NATO talk, and for this action anyway should be only American) to bag Bin Laden (take him out alive for live torture and killing back in the states if it doesn't bring up too many tactical headaches, otherwise just kill 'em on the spot). After words you take out the taliban with a tactical missle strike follwed by US occupation of the country. While at the same time taking out the taliban, drop a nuke right on Saddam's presidential palace, followed with eventual (after it is safe to go in) occupation of the country. After this a longer term plan can start to unfold. Now i know most of you have come out against the use of nukes, but is there any way you could sign off on just this one in bahgdad? if not explain why and I'll modify the plan accordingly.

Hader,
Iraq has been a thorn in our side for too long

cheeeefs · 11-22-2004, 11:40 AM

was reading through the archives, thought some might be interested in re-reading this post. Quite interesting.

View Poll Results: What Should the US Do Now
All Out Nuclear War against All Backers of Islamic Terrorism	9	10.59%
Tactical Nuclear Strike Against Primary Offending Nation	4	4.71%
Non-Nuke Full Scale Invasion/Conquering of Offending Nation	32	37.65%
Massive Non Nuke Missile Strike of Offending Nation	10	11.76%
Missile Strike plus Special Forces Attack	24	28.24%
Special Forces Surgical Strike Only	6	7.06%
Negotiate with Terrorists and Arab Leaders	0	0%
Talk Tough and see what happens next	0	0%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

09-12-2001, 10:35 PM
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-796615	How Should the US Respond I'm kind of surprised that no one's done this yet (unless it's buried) but I'm curious where the majority weighs in.
Posts: 121,775

09-13-2001, 10:07 AM	#31
Fat Elvis Sexiest Athlete Join Date: Apr 2001 Casino cash: $-2058075	Gaz, you seem to be backpeddling... Right after the attack, you stated that you doubt that the US would do what it takes to make sure that this would never happen again. Yet now, you are reluctant to attack Iraq. Part of the neccesary action to make sure that this doesn't happen again would be toppling regimes that have a history of state sponsored terrorism. Whether or not Iraq was definatively involved in this particular act of terrorism seems irrelevant. Supposedly the war is against "terrorism" not just the perpetrators of this act; if that is the case, you need to take out and make an example of a country that sponsors these types of activities. You cannot do a search on the web for "state sponsored terrorism" and not have the word Iraq appear in the article. From a militaristic and strategic standpoint, making Saddam and Iraq our whipping boys for this action (rightly or wrongly) makes a lot more sense than a full scale invasion into Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a complete and total mess--ask Russia about that. There definately needs to be a response in Afghanistan; hit them long and hit them hard, but the military presense should be minimal as we are not prepared to fight that type of war. We simply do not have the infrastructure to logistically support a sustained campaign in that region. Soften them up with bombing, supply the rebels with whatever arms they want, and use covert operations to take out leaders Iraq presents a whole other scenario militarily. We are already there. We have bases nearby. We have the infrastructure in place for a sustained attack. We should take down Saddam once and for all and cripple Iraq's military machine for good.
Posts: 12,703

09-13-2001, 10:15 AM	#32
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	FE - I agree completely. Provide support to MujaHadin and let them take out the Taliban for us. Gaz - I agree that what is reported by the worldtribune is 'not good enough'. No one should expect action based on rumor or innuendo... I'm sure we've taken the information into consideration and are looking into every possible lead. __________________ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
Posts: 12,355

09-13-2001, 10:17 AM	#33
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Backpedaling? Geez, pedaling forward is hard enough... Fat Elvis- If I gave that impression, I erred in my typing. If Iraq indeed financed and organized this attack, then I would declare war on Iraq and destroy them utterly. My point was that "seems the most reasonable [candidate]" is not sufficient proof to act. If Iraq was behind this in any way, shape or form, there is an evidence trail. As soon as our government is satisfied that the trail is established, Bush should immediately ask for a declaration of war. Then we should destroy the government of Iraq with the full and unfettered might of the US military and whichever nations chose to join us. With that evidence, we are committing our forces to retaliation against a legitimate target, rather than just striking out at a country we don't like. And we already know that Bin Laden is culpable in previous terrorist actions. We should now do what we lacked the will to do before. Tell the Taliban to surrender him and his henchmen. If they do not, then I take on Afghanistan as well. Is that clearer? Often, in my haste to reply, I fail to compose quite as clearly as I would wish. xoxo~ Gaz Just another warmonger.
Posts: 5,911

09-13-2001, 12:26 PM	#34
Packfan Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI, Door Casino cash: $10004900	What the US should do is give Afganistan 24 hours to produce Bin Laden. When they dont, we should buldoze our way through that country and any other country he flees to. If they do produce him, you hang him by his balls in public effigy in NYC. And then you bulldoze afganistan. Its time to fight fire with fire. Its time to take STRONG action on the countries that produce these nuts. About 15 years ago, Lybians blew up a German disco where US soldiers hung out. Ronald Reagan orderd a cruise missle be sent into the living room of Khadafi's home, killing his daughter. Since then, Khadafi has been a model citizen. The United States prefers a more civil type of justice. Unfortunately, it hasnt worked. For the safety of American, its time to end terrorism once and for all. The only way you do this is to fight fire with fire. Forget trying to bring people to justice. Its also time to end immigration in this country. Cuba sends us its prisoners, and the middle east sends us their terrorists. We welcome them in, only to have them turn on us. The US has been to nice to the rest of the world. We need to take care of ourselves first. __________________ Ken Dienberg
Posts: 938

09-13-2001, 12:31 PM	#35
stevieray Most things I worry about… Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $-1334727	Nice post, Ken.
Posts: 74,128

09-13-2001, 12:31 PM	#36
ChiTown Stroking to the SB Champs! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Flatlands of Kansas Casino cash: $-541038	It pains me to agree with PackFan, but I just may have to do it. To borrow a line from one of my favorite movies "Untouchables" "They put one of your guys in the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue" (or something like that). Enough with the *****-footing. It's time to get down and dirty.
Posts: 40,928

09-13-2001, 12:43 PM	#37
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-796615	That quote, from the Untouchables, is: "If he pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He's sends one of yours to the hospital, send one of his to the fucking morgue. THAT'S the Chicago way." Another quote from that movie seems very appropriate for the way I feel about those responsible for this crap: "I want him DEAD. I want his family DEAD. I want his house burnt to the GROUND. I wanna go there in the middle of the night and P1SS ON HIS ASHES!" That pretty much sums up how I feel at the moment. I'm getting madder by the minute. Hope GW does something soon so I can get some sort of release for all this built up rage.
Posts: 121,775

09-13-2001, 12:52 PM	#38
ChiTown Stroking to the SB Champs! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Flatlands of Kansas Casino cash: $-541038	Thanks, Fraz! I knew I f'd up the quote:o It takes a "true" Chicagoan to pull that movie line out of his a s s Right now, I'm so pissed, I could eat nails and spit out molten steel. Let's hope our action is swift, strong and and accurate as hell.
Posts: 40,928

09-13-2001, 02:10 PM	#39
Idahojim Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Nampa, Idaho, USA Casino cash: $9965995	My guess is when all is said and done that the folks at Rand McNally will be coming up for new names for Afghanistan and Iraq. That aside, I wish that the result of all of this would be a worldwide special force (meanest Rambos from throughout the world) that would go in and wipe out ANY terrorists who attack ANY country. International law should forbid terrorism against civilians - and there should be no tribunals or courts. Terrorize and you die. Nothing more. Nothing less. That would at least bring some meaning to the senseless acts we've witnessed this week.
Posts: 762

09-13-2001, 02:41 PM	#40
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	jim - you should read Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six... it's pretty much about what you suggest. SAS, Mossad, Delta, SEAL, GH8, etc. in a combined SpcFor assault team. Personally, I think it's a great idea! __________________ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
Posts: 12,355

09-13-2001, 03:21 PM	#41
Boise_Chief The Lurkiest Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Boise,ID Casino cash: $-885812	The only way to actually respond is with everything we have. If you "send a message" It will only fuel them on. You have to Mount a WAR. Gather all info from intelligence agencies from through out the world and strike. Keep striking until you have no targets. With China and Russia in bed with us on this Warm up the ICBM's (Conventional war heads). It is hard to plan and execute an attack when you are hiding and running for your life. This is not a short term plan you would have to keep attacking for years maybe decades. Midnight hit squads invasions assasination everything. Pick up a big bat and play hard ball. Boise.
Posts: 2,021

09-13-2001, 06:42 PM	#42
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-796615	Moving this back to the front page. I must say that I am happy to see no votes for negotiating or blustering. I would also add that I've rethought my position on the tac nuke, and after calming down a bit (I was pretty pissed last night), realize that it would not be the smart move - too many people and countries whose support we will need in any action would be outraged and would at the least not help us. All I can say is that I'm a rather emotional guy, and have learned from hard experience that the initial, angry response is generally not the best one. If I could change my vote, I would - to large scale conventional attack followed by occupation.
Posts: 121,775

09-13-2001, 07:02 PM	#43
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $907229	You know how world leaders and these types of people like to quote former leaders, authors, the bible, etc? Well, I'm waiting for the moment when Bush addresses the world and states his plan, something like... "The people of America have spent the past 78 hours in anguish, saddened by the cowardly acts of terrorists nations. At this time, the United States, with full support of NATO and our allies, is prepared to retaliate with direct, decisive and unholy force. I have but one message for the individuals responsible for this act and the people harboring them. Quoting the great philosopher Booger ... 'I say we blow the ****ers up!' Good night and God bless America." I hope nobody takes offense to that remark, and I also hope that you catch the movie reference. Anyway, I'm just ready to hear our plan of attack. This SOB must pay. __________________
Posts: 30,910

09-13-2001, 08:33 PM	#44
Raiderhater Tried it on and it fit Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: A Webb of chaos Casino cash: $-1617979	I have been thinking about the best way to do this, and while I don't have a whole plan, I do have the strating stages. First we send in a SpecForc group (I prefer pure American, I don't dig this NATO talk, and for this action anyway should be only American) to bag Bin Laden (take him out alive for live torture and killing back in the states if it doesn't bring up too many tactical headaches, otherwise just kill 'em on the spot). After words you take out the taliban with a tactical missle strike follwed by US occupation of the country. While at the same time taking out the taliban, drop a nuke right on Saddam's presidential palace, followed with eventual (after it is safe to go in) occupation of the country. After this a longer term plan can start to unfold. Now i know most of you have come out against the use of nukes, but is there any way you could sign off on just this one in bahgdad? if not explain why and I'll modify the plan accordingly. Hader, Iraq has been a thorn in our side for too long __________________ "Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, and disregard of all the rules." -- George Orwell, Shooting an Elephant
Posts: 29,553

11-22-2004, 11:40 AM	#45
cheeeefs Aishwarya Rai Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Baltimore Casino cash: $10004900	was reading through the archives, thought some might be interested in re-reading this post. Quite interesting. __________________ "Yeah, I could do it. We both know you wouldn't stop me. Let's think about the logic. You create man, man suffers enormous amounts of pain, man dies. They say you rested on the seventh day, well maybe you should have spent that day on compassion."
Posts: 3,028