Chiefs Mike Vrabel - Page 3

Amnorix · 02-27-2009, 09:38 PM

As I did when Pioli came over, I'll post a separate thread because I think it's fair to say that I might have just a little more knowledge about the guy than most on here.

What you guys have traded for is a very smart, team-driven, reliable and consistent performer able to play both inside and outside linebacker in the 3-4, with championship credentials and very good leadership skills.

In my opinion, the reasons that the Chiefs have made this trade are as follows:

1. Veteran leadership. The Chiefs are VERY young. Rather than yet another young draft pick player, the Chiefs have decided that even though he is on the downside of his career and will only play for another year or two, it is important to bring in someone who can show the younger players HOW to practice, HOW to review film, HOW to prepare for games and be coachable, and HOW to play 3-4 linebacker.

2. Defensive flexibility. Vrabel can play both inside and outside in the 3-4 with relatively equal facility. A solid performer, he can set the edge, rush the passer and play hardnosed in the middle.

3. Position flexibility. In addition to his inside/outside talents in the 3-4, he also plays TE in goal line situations, showing the rest of the team that he is able and willing to do WHATEVER the coaches ask to help the team win.

He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans.

Many here denigrate what he will bring ON the field, and wonder why the Chiefs are giving up anything for him. What you need to understand is that as much as they want what he brings on the field, what they are really bringing him here for is what he brings OFF the field. That is what makes him valuable to a ridiculously young, inexperienced Chiefs team.

And when he talks, those young guys will listen. His three rings ensure that. He will also help the coaches enforce their ways inside the locker room, and get the Chiefs players moving and operating in the right direction.

Though Pats fans knew his time was drawing near, we basically feel like there's been a death in teh family. Vrabel was universally loved and respected by Patriots fans, and we're very sad to see him go.

txhawk · 02-27-2009, 10:16 PM

They're tremendously better now, specifically from a talent standpoint, then they were the year before. You have to win games to get to the playoffs.

rad · 02-27-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

Amnorix, I'm sure you're right about all the things Vrabel will be able to provide. He arrives with a great resume.

What I question is whether he will, and why he'd want to.

I just can't imagine that Vrabel is feeling good about coming to a 2-14 team in exchange for a late round draft pick. I hope I'm wrong, but I envision him just showing up to draw a pay check.

I don't think he has a choice.

Besides, I don't believe he's a "me first" kind of player.

Amnorix · 02-27-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

Amnorix, I'm sure you're right about all the things Vrabel will be able to provide. He arrives with a great resume.

What I question is whether he will, and why he'd want to.

I just can't imagine that Vrabel is feeling good about coming to a 2-14 team in exchange for a late round draft pick. I hope I'm wrong, but I envision him just showing up to draw a pay check.

He's a consummate professional. I'm sure you're right -- he's not thrilled -- but he'll do his job. Count on it.

**PHOG** · 02-27-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

Amnorix, I'm sure you're right about all the things Vrabel will be able to provide. He arrives with a great resume.

What I question is whether he will, and why he'd want to.

I just can't imagine that Vrabel is feeling good about coming to a 2-14 team in exchange for a late round draft pick. I hope I'm wrong, but I envision him just showing up to draw a pay check.

I myself would doubt that....but i've been wrong before...it seems obvious why they're bringing him in to me.

BradyFTW! · 02-27-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

Amnorix, I'm sure you're right about all the things Vrabel will be able to provide. He arrives with a great resume.

What I question is whether he will, and why he'd want to.

I just can't imagine that Vrabel is feeling good about coming to a 2-14 team in exchange for a late round draft pick. I hope I'm wrong, but I envision him just showing up to draw a pay check.

That's not an unreasonable concern, normally, but it just isn't the kind of player that Vrabel is. Trust the Pats fans on this one- once you've watched him for a while, you'll get why this isn't something that you needed to be worried about.

boogblaster · 02-27-2009, 10:17 PM

Dont count the ole guy out yet ... NE won lots of games with old-smart-proven players ....

txhawk · 02-27-2009, 10:18 PM

I personally don't view Vrabel as a game changer. But what defensive player on this squad is? We have to change the ATTITUDE of this defense. If Vrabel can help do that, he's worth it.

ChiefRon · 02-27-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Yeah, Seau was later, much later.

Keep in mind that the Patriots team Belichick inherited in 2000 was fundamentally different from teh group of kids you have:

1. Starting QB was Drew Bledsoe -- 7 year veteran, pro bowler, and one SB appearance.

2. The team started 2000 just 3 years removed from a SB appearance, with playoff appearances and victories within the last couple of years.

3. Seasoned vets: Bledsoe, Bruschi, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Willie McGinest, Bruce Armstrong,

You've got Tony Gonzalez and a bunch of kids, basically.

Ah yes, now I remember, Belichick inherited this team when Parcells "retired".

I'm glad you feel good about this move for the Chiefs, because I sure as hell don't.

I'm going to try to keep a level head, and try to reserve judgement until I see the team that's assembled in August.

But with a ton of needs and a ton of salary cap space, and this is the move we make when folks like Brown and Scott and other impact players are visiting / signing other teams, I just have to scratch my head.

And that little bit of doubt I had when we hired Pioli (hmm, I hope his success had something to do with Pioli's judgement and not him being a yes man to Belichick) just grew a little...

BradyFTW! · 02-27-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txhawk

I personally don't view Vrabel as a game changer. But what defensive player on this squad is? We have to change the ATTITUDE of this defense. If Vrabel can help do that, he's worth it.

He will. Part of the reason why a lot of Pats fans are pissed about losing him is that, even if he has lost a step, he pretty much is the "attitude" guy on defense.

Amnorix · 02-27-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRon

Ah yes, now I remember, Belichick inherited this team when Parcells "retired".

errr....sort of, but you seem to be a bit off on the timeline. Parcells "retired" from the Jets. It was Parcells leaving after the SB run in 1996, then 3 years of Pete Carroll, and then Belichick coming in.

el borracho · 02-27-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rad

I think the idea behind it is while Vrabel himself won't be around long, his contributions to our younger players will.

I understand the underlying concept, I just disagree vehemently with paying a premium (draft pick) for it. Perhaps I under-value vet leadership but, realistically, Vrabel will not be here if/when the Chiefs are winners again and neither will most of the players on the 2009 team. This is obviously not as stupid as trading our #12 for Green when we could have had him for nothing in free-agency the following year but it is stupid.

By the way, do you remember the justification for acquiring Green one year earlier?- so he could teach the youngsters and help install the system. Guess what! Green's presence didn't help Snoop Minnis or C. Thomas turn into anything they weren't already- crappy players.

p.s. I'm still wondering what Vrabel is going to enforce.

BradyFTW! · 02-27-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRon

Ah yes, now I remember, Belichick inherited this team when Parcells "retired".

I'm glad you feel good about this move for the Chiefs, because I sure as hell don't.

I'm going to try to keep a level head, and try to reserve judgement until I see the team that's assembled in August.

But with a ton of needs and a ton of salary cap space, and this is the move we make when folks like Brown and Scott and other impact players are visiting / signing other teams, I just have to scratch my head.

And that little bit of doubt I had when we hired Pioli (hmm, I hope his success had something to do with Pioli's judgement and not him being a yes man to Belichick) just grew a little...

Fair enough, just don't judge the whole system too quickly. The Pats actually got 3 games worse in Belichick's first year (8-8 to 5-11) because he had to purge all the overpriced veterans, malcontents, and guys who didn't fit the system. Once you've done that, it still takes some time to build a nucleus of talent that buys into the system.

**PHOG** · 02-27-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRon

Ah yes, now I remember, Belichick inherited this team when Parcells "retired".

I'm glad you feel good about this move for the Chiefs, because I sure as hell don't.

I'm going to try to keep a level head, and try to reserve judgement until I see the team that's assembled in August.

But with a ton of needs and a ton of salary cap space, and this is the move we make when folks like Brown and Scott and other impact players are visiting / signing other teams, I just have to scratch my head.

And that little bit of doubt I had when we hired Pioli (hmm, I hope his success had something to do with Pioli's judgement and not him being a yes man to Belichick) just grew a little...

I'm sure your phone will be ringing of the hook tomorow morning...Scott calling....asking your advice??

ct · 02-27-2009, 10:23 PM

Thanks Amnorix, always appreciate your input!

ChiefRon · 02-27-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

errr....sort of, but you seem to be a bit off on the timeline. Parcells "retired" from the Jets. It was Parcells leaving after the SB run in 1996, then 3 years of Pete Carroll, and then Belichick coming in.

I couldn't remember exactly. I don't pay a lot of attention to the Jets or Patriots and never have. I hate both those teams.

No offense.

02-27-2009, 09:38 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Mike Vrabel As I did when Pioli came over, I'll post a separate thread because I think it's fair to say that I might have just a little more knowledge about the guy than most on here. What you guys have traded for is a very smart, team-driven, reliable and consistent performer able to play both inside and outside linebacker in the 3-4, with championship credentials and very good leadership skills. In my opinion, the reasons that the Chiefs have made this trade are as follows: 1. Veteran leadership. The Chiefs are VERY young. Rather than yet another young draft pick player, the Chiefs have decided that even though he is on the downside of his career and will only play for another year or two, it is important to bring in someone who can show the younger players HOW to practice, HOW to review film, HOW to prepare for games and be coachable, and HOW to play 3-4 linebacker. 2. Defensive flexibility. Vrabel can play both inside and outside in the 3-4 with relatively equal facility. A solid performer, he can set the edge, rush the passer and play hardnosed in the middle. 3. Position flexibility. In addition to his inside/outside talents in the 3-4, he also plays TE in goal line situations, showing the rest of the team that he is able and willing to do WHATEVER the coaches ask to help the team win. He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans. Many here denigrate what he will bring ON the field, and wonder why the Chiefs are giving up anything for him. What you need to understand is that as much as they want what he brings on the field, what they are really bringing him here for is what he brings OFF the field. That is what makes him valuable to a ridiculously young, inexperienced Chiefs team. And when he talks, those young guys will listen. His three rings ensure that. He will also help the coaches enforce their ways inside the locker room, and get the Chiefs players moving and operating in the right direction. Though Pats fans knew his time was drawing near, we basically feel like there's been a death in teh family. Vrabel was universally loved and respected by Patriots fans, and we're very sad to see him go.
Posts: 43,125

02-27-2009, 10:16 PM	#31
txhawk Starter Join Date: May 2004 Casino cash: $10006825	They're tremendously better now, specifically from a talent standpoint, then they were the year before. You have to win games to get to the playoffs.
Posts: 111

02-27-2009, 10:17 PM	#36
boogblaster MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Verdigris Valley Campsite Casino cash: $10004900	Dont count the ole guy out yet ... NE won lots of games with old-smart-proven players .... __________________ WR or S please
Posts: 10,305

02-27-2009, 10:18 PM	#37
txhawk Starter Join Date: May 2004 Casino cash: $10006825	I personally don't view Vrabel as a game changer. But what defensive player on this squad is? We have to change the ATTITUDE of this defense. If Vrabel can help do that, he's worth it.
Posts: 111

02-27-2009, 10:23 PM	#44
ct u b illian Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: DooDah Casino cash: $10009436	Thanks Amnorix, always appreciate your input!
Posts: 7,287