GBN Report: 2010 SENIOR BOWL GAME REVIEW

[Tribal Warfare]

2010 SENIOR BOWL GAME REVIEW

[RustShack]

Graham isn't a bad player, but I would rather get someone who can start at the OTHER OLB spot and just stick with Hali. Hali is essentially another DL just standing up, and having Graham would be like having 5 DL just with two standing up.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by aturnis

Don't you get it? The reason nobody wants to take a LT with the 5th, is b/c there is absolutely no value to that type of pick.

No value? For what many people believe to be the second most important position on the football field? How could you possibly even say this?

The last four years of the draft saw an offensive tackle go in the top five picks. And there is no value in it? Perhaps from your perspective, but it looks like NFL teams would argue vehemently against your theory.

2009: #2 - Jason Smith
2008: #1 - Jake Long
2007: #3 - Joe Thomas
2006: #4 - D'brickashaw Ferguson

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

No value? For what many people believe to be the second most important position on the football field? How could you possibly even say this?

The last four years of the draft saw an offensive tackle go in the top five picks. And there is no value in it? Perhaps from your perspective, but it looks like NFL teams would argue vehemently against your theory.

2009: #2 - Jason Smith
2008: #1 - Jake Long
2007: #3 - Joe Thomas
2006: #4 - D'brickashaw Ferguson

All those teams needed a LT.

We need immediate upgrades at

c
rg
rb2
wr1
wr3
nb
nt
lolb
mlb
wlb
ss
fs

Bolded are positions that this draft offers very rare talents at that are worthy of such a high pick. If we decide that the elite talent that fits our needs at the top of the draft is worth passing on to upgrade LT, he better damn sure be better than Okung looks.

I wouldnt pick Okung at 10 or even 15, we simply have too many other desperate needs that we cant afford to give one position a mild upgrade if at all (which I dont think is an upgrade at all)

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

No value? For what many people believe to be the second most important position on the football field? How could you possibly even say this?

The last four years of the draft saw an offensive tackle go in the top five picks. And there is no value in it? Perhaps from your perspective, but it looks like NFL teams would argue vehemently against your theory.

2009: #2 - Jason Smith
2008: #1 - Jake Long
2007: #3 - Joe Thomas
2006: #4 - D'brickashaw Ferguson

Argue vehemently? 20% of the top 5 picks have been offensive lineman. Big freaking deal.

What rebuttal do you have for not one lineman on either SB team was a first rounder.

[The Bad Guy]

I don't even know why you are wasting your time with Saca. It's obvious he hates Albert, that Albert will only get better and the only way this team can possibly improve is by adding Russell Okung to the offensive line and moving Albert to a position he's never played before.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

What would he give us over Tamba at this point?

My point being that people around here are so insanely against picking up a OT early in the draft to shore up a position of need (either side, preferably both, I don't care), but it's okay to spend a pick like that on a guy that will provide no improvement, and maybe a little less (considering the amazing knack that Hali has in forcing fumbles), than what Tamba in capable of at the exact same position? I don't get it. Kindle I understand because he's long and athletic enough to play either of the OLB spots for three downs, but Graham, while a nice player, would be a bad pick seeing as we already have a more experienced version of him on the team.

ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS? I love Tamba Hali.. but do you REALLY think he is anywhere near Woodley's range? If you do.. stop watching football and pick a new sport. Jesus Christ... don't be an idiot just to try to prove a point...

Graham is head and shoulders better than Hali and if you can't see that than we have nothing more to talk about.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I don't even know why you are wasting your time with Saca. It's obvious he hates Albert, that Albert will only get better and the only way this team can possibly improve is by adding Russell Okung to the offensive line and moving Albert to a position he's never played before.

HEY I am fine moving Albert back to LG with a genuine ELITE LT.. Okung isn't it (IMHO) but given Alberts improvement in the last 2 months of the season.. it is idiotic to wastea high pick on LT when we have MUCH higher needs that ARE PROVEN to be deficits. Albert at the VERY LEAST is a Pro Bowl POSSIBILITY... Last I checked no one at NT, S, or WR was...

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Argue vehemently? 20% of the top 5 picks have been offensive lineman. Big freaking deal.

What rebuttal do you have for not one lineman on either SB team was a first rounder.

Jammal Brown of the Saints was a first rounder, although he's been on IR this year.

I don't even know why you are wasting your time with Saca. It's obvious he hates Albert, that Albert will only get better and the only way this team can possibly improve is by adding Russell Okung to the offensive line and moving Albert to a position he's never played before.

No, that would have been Carl and Herm, when they drafted a college guard, a guy that had never played left tackle in his entire college career, and drafted him with a first round pick in hopes that he could play left tackle at the next level when he never played the position in college.

So, dipshit, it's not me that wants Albert to play a position he's never played before - it's you and people like you that have this deranged pipe dream of believing that he's going to be a "Pro Bowl Possibility" (jesus Austin, really?) at left tackle. I'd actually like him to play the position he's played for a lot longer than continuing to put him out at left tackle and watch him fail miserably.

Frankly, I don't give a shit about who the Chiefs pick because they could stand an upgrade every single position with the exception of Charles and Flowers.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS? I love Tamba Hali.. but do you REALLY think he is anywhere near Woodley's range? If you do.. stop watching football and pick a new sport. Jesus Christ... don't be an idiot just to try to prove a point...

I never said he was Woodley, nor did I ever compare him to Woodley. Jesus...take a lude.

Graham is head and shoulders better than Hali and if you can't see that than we have nothing more to talk about.

Really? And how is that? Hali was a first team All-American coming out of college that had 11 sacks and 17 tackles for loss his senior year as a 6'3", 265 lbs. defensive end in a 4-3 format. Was Big 10 POY.

Brandon Graham was an Honorable Mention All-American with 9.5 sacks and 20 TFL as a 6'1", 265 lbs. defensive end in a 4-3 format. Was Runner Up Big 10 POY.

Hali, over the past four seasons, leads the NFL in forced fumbles.

Head and shoulders? I seriously doubt it, and with Graham's lack of height, there are going to be a lot of teams that will pass him over. He's more of a Dumervil than anything else and he doesn't have that insanely quick first step of Dumervil. He'll struggle against LT's at the next level and he doesn't have the feet/back peddle to be effective in the pass.

I know he's your boy, but geez, there's no reason to get that defensive.

BTW, here's a 2006 pre-draft analysis for Tamba:

An experienced pass rusher, Tamba Hali might be the most polished of all defensive ends in the 2006 NFL Draft. He is a natural athlete with good size and speed to match up at the next level. Hali sprung to the top of the draft board with his phenomenal senior campaign. He is a leader and a workhorse. Hali has put up big sack numbers and was a main reason for Penn State’s success this past season.

Tamba Hali is an outstanding defensive presence and will really put pressure in the backfield. While he doesn’t have the best overall height, he has a good reach to get around the mammoth tackles in the NFL. Hali, with impressive workouts, could vault himself into the top 10 and one of the top defensive linemen taken.

You could literally replace "Tamba Hali" with "Brandon Graham" in that article. They are the same type of player, with the exception of Hali having several inches in height over Graham.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jammal Brown of the Saints was a first rounder, although he's been on IR this year.



No, that would have been Carl and Herm, when they drafted a college guard, a guy that had never played left tackle in his entire college career, and drafted him with a first round pick in hopes that he could play left tackle at the next level when he never played the position in college.

So, dipshit, it's not me that wants Albert to play a position he's never played before - it's you and people like you that have this deranged pipe dream of believing that he's going to be a "Pro Bowl Possibility" (jesus Austin, really?) at left tackle. I'd actually like him to play the position he's played for a lot longer than continuing to put him out at left tackle and watch him fail miserably.

Frankly, I don't give a shit about who the Chiefs pick because they could stand an upgrade every single position with the exception of Charles and Flowers.

He's played LT for 2 years in the NFL. He was asked to drop the 30 pounds and his game suffered because of it. I know you can't analyze offensive line play to save your life, but even you could admit that Albert had a pretty good rookie year.

So the Chiefs draft Okung, move Albert to RT and this makes the line better how? They aren't moving Brian Waters from LG.

Seems to me like you are the absolute only one that keeps banging the "Albert will always suck at LT".

Good example. The Saints used a first rounder on Jamaal Brown and their line actually improved when Bushrod stepped in. Thank you for proving my point.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

You could literally replace "Tamba Hali" with "Brandon Graham" in that article. They are the same type of player, with the exception of Hali having several inches in height over Graham.

I honestly wonder if you even watch college football or if you depend on youtube clips and writeups to give you all your information.

[RustShack]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

No value? For what many people believe to be the second most important position on the football field? How could you possibly even say this?

The last four years of the draft saw an offensive tackle go in the top five picks. And there is no value in it? Perhaps from your perspective, but it looks like NFL teams would argue vehemently against your theory.

2009: #2 - Jason Smith
2008: #1 - Jake Long
2007: #3 - Joe Thomas
2006: #4 - D'brickashaw Ferguson

Hey dumbass, everyone knows that LT's are worth a top pick. The point is there isn't a LT THIS YEAR worth the pick. Okung isn't a better prospect than Albert no matter how many times you tell yourself he is. You seem to think no matter who you draft that high is great no matter how good of a prospect he is. Thats why you sir, are ****ing stupid.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jammal Brown of the Saints was a first rounder, although he's been on IR this year.

That's funny. How he didn't play this year, and you want to pretend like he helped the Saints to a Superbowl. Too funny.

Also, Branden Alberts play progressed as the season went along. I think something like 6 of the 9 sacks allowed came in the first four games. In his other ten games, he only allowed 3 sacks. That's not as bad as it looks for being given a new playbook 1-2 weeks before the season starts. A playbook which on record has been said to have taken the number of blocking schemes from 5-6 to something like 50.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but this team learned this offense on the fly. Go look at the Oline in the first few weeks, it is OBVIOUS the players were lost. That is something I doubt ANY of these draft gurus know.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I honestly wonder if you even watch college football or if you depend on youtube clips and writeups to give you all your information.

I wonder if you watched anything other than the Senior Bowl practices. Hali was dominant at Penn State and was considered a more likely first round pick than Graham is right now. Yes, he did have a very good Senior Bowl, and a very nice 2009 season, but it wasn't drastically better (one could validly argue that it wasn't better) than what Hali put in during his senior year at the exact same position. Plus the fact that Hali has a couple of inches in height over Graham.

But I'm waiting with bated breath for your comparison between the two showing why Graham is substantially superior to Hali was at the same stage of their careers. I mean, you are insinuating that you have watched a shit ton more college games than I have, so, please, give your detailed analysis on the differences between the two based on your extensive viewing experience of Tamba Hali and Daniel Graham during their college playing days.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Hey dumbass, everyone knows that LT's are worth a top pick. The point is there isn't a LT THIS YEAR worth the pick. Okung isn't a better prospect than Albert no matter how many times you tell yourself he is. You seem to think no matter who you draft that high is great no matter how good of a prospect he is. Thats why you sir, are ****ing stupid.

Hell, the point isn't even that there isn't a guy worth it this year, which there isn't. The point is, that even if there was, he wouldn't be worth it to the Kansas City Chiefs. We really don't know what we have in Branden Albert. The first year he was helped by the style of offense and the mobile QB. This year, he was given a new playbook with 10X as many blocking schemes 1-2 weeks before the season started.

Tell me if you would think if was fair if you lost your job b/c the first year, they did everything in their power to make it as easy on you as possible, and the next, they change everything. Make it basically as hard as possible, and expect you to thrive after only 2 weeks of training with your new, daunting responsibilities. No, you will argue there was a learning curve, and the progress you've shown warrants another chance to be evaluated.