Chiefs Haley versus McDaniels - Page 3

SenselessChiefsFan · 11-30-2011, 08:42 AM

For those that think I love Cassel, I don't. I just think that Haley isn't nearly the offensive coordinator that McDaniels is. I think the biggest reason that many on here think that Orton is better is because he had two years with McDaniels while the Chiefs had Haley, then Weis, and now Haley again.

Orton and Cassel have both struggled this year.

Haley had a great offense in Arizona with Kurt Warner. McDaniels had a great offense with Tom Brady, but he also has had good offenses with Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel....ahem.... Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel.

In 2007, Haley's first as a offensive coordinator, there is no comparison. McDaniels had a record setting offense at the top of the league. Haley had the 12th best offense. Winner: McDaniels. Haley might get some credit here since he was in his first year with the Cardinals. But, The Pats set the world on fire and set records and were just so much better, that you have to give the nod to McDaniels.

In 2008, Haley had the fourth rated offense. He had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Breaston. Granted, the running backs weren't great. Edgerin James wasn't quite what he once was and they had Tim Hightower.

In 2008, McDaniels had the fifth rated offense. He had Matt Cassel, Randy Moss and Wes Welker. And, believe it or not, the running backs in NE were even MORE underwhelming. Lamont Jordon, Maroney, Sammy Morris.

2008 edge: Despite Arizona ranking one spot higher, it would be foolish not to notice the distinct advantage in talent around Haley. so the edge goes to McDaniels.

2009- Daniels had the 15th best offense. He had Orton, Marshall and Royal. He didn't have much of a running threat.

In 2009, Haley had the 25th best offense. He had Matt Cassel, D-Bowe, and Charles. Yeah, he didn't give Charles a ton of time until the end of the season. Who's fault is that? Who is the coach that saw JC on the field every day and still decided to play LJ?

In 2010, Haley had Weis as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs were 12th in offense. The Broncos were 13th. The Chiefs had better offensive talent. Jones was still playing well last year, JC was out of this world. They had D-Bowe and Moeaki as well. Luckily, Haley had Weis to know how to use the talent. With Weis, they managed to be one spot higher than the Broncos.

McDaniels had Orton, B LLoyd, Eddie Royal. Yet, he managed to get to the 13th ranking.

2011. Finally, a year that Haley can probably claim as better than McDaniels. The Chiefs are 27th in offense. The Rams are 29th.

Now, lets look at talent. Matt Cassel versus Sam Bradford. Bradford is the obvious answer. However, a second year guy going into a new system, and an offseason with no training camp. Again, Bradford is the better guy, but overall situation? Haley might have the better overall situation. Cassel and even Palko had been with the Chiefs for a full year.

Both McDaniels and Haley have had to have two games played with their backup QB.

Jackson is clearly superior to anything that the Chiefs have in the backfield since JC went down.

However, look at the talent on the outside and you will see the Chiefs have Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin..... heck, even McCluster would probably be one of the Rams top two WR's. Not kidding. They have Brandon Lloyd and Brandon Gibson. That is their top two WR's.

So, even conceding that they have the best QB and RB in St. Louis, you look at the fact that McDaniels came to a brand new team without an offseason and is only 2 spots worse than the team that Haley has been building for three years.

McDaniels was a crappy personnel guy. I concede that fact every day of the week. But, when it comes down to x's and o's. He outshines Haley by a huge margin.

I think Haley may be the better overall head coach, but from a purely offensive creativity and coordination standpoint. Haley is far inferior to McDaniels.

And any comparison between Orton and Cassel has to be based in this reality.

And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.

htismaqe · 11-30-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

Psychoanalysis by a dumbshit.

Ironic.

So you're on board with a McDaniels/Cassel reunion in KC, too?

htismaqe · 11-30-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

You keep repeating this shit while ignoring the fact that McDaniels has done shit in St. Louis with Bradford.

Kyle Orton is not going to magically surrender his ability to throw accurately without McDaniels.

You are full of crap.

Read what he wrote.

"Please understand, I hate Matt Cassel. But I really like the thought of bringing in McDaniels to work with Matt Cassel."

Passive.

Aggressive.

ChiefsCountry · 11-30-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So you're on board with a McDaniels/Cassel reunion in KC, too?

Hell in 2008/2009 thats what he wanted.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...4&postcount=47

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...6&postcount=43

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...8&postcount=34

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=209

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=126

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=129

Rams Fan · 11-30-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Haley and Muir got more out of Matt Cassel than McDaniels can get from Sam Bradford.

Think about it.

Minus all his pregame walk through tapes, I'm not sure McDaniels is good OC at all. The rams went from scoring 18 points a game to 12 points a game. The NFC west is a shitty division and it's not like the rams have a ton of different pieces as last season.

You haven't been watching them, have you?

The whole OL is different from 2010 OL, aside from Bell, right now. Dahl is playing RT while Goldberg is at LT, Brown is playing RG because he sucks at center, Wragge is starting at center now. Both Saffold and Smith are out for the year.

Amendola is out for the year, Kendricks is a rookie, Lloyd was acquired via trade etc.

So yes, there is a rather large difference from this Rams team to last season's.

whoman69 · 11-30-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

You haven't been watching them, have you?

The whole OL is different from 2010 OL, aside from Bell, right now. Dahl is playing RT while Goldberg is at LT, Brown is playing RG because he sucks at center, Wragge is starting at center now. Both Saffold and Smith are out for the year.

Amendola is out for the year, Kendricks is a rookie, Lloyd was acquired via trade etc.

So yes, there is a rather large difference from this Rams team to last season's.

So Bradford needs a better O-line and receiver corps too? Steven Jackson is better than anything we had in the backfield this year.

**HemiEd** · 11-30-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

This situation seems to have affected you in some way, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan.

Might I suggest that you consider developing a side-interest and stepping away from football for awhile? Like, say ... bowling, maybe? Bowling can be fun. It's pretty good exercise and they even have automatic scoring systems at most bowling alleys. Bowling groupies are cool, too ... even though they sometimes smell like socks. Then, after you've bowled a few games, picked up a bowling groupie for the night, and turned in your shoes, you can enjoy a burger and coke at the arcade.

FAX

Rams Fan · 11-30-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

So Bradford needs a better O-line and receiver corps too? Steven Jackson is better than anything we had in the backfield this year.

Chiefs OL is probably better than the Rams OL.

It's ****ing pathetic and sad. The Rams have paid big money for their OL, and Dahl has been the only one who has been earning his contract.

listopencil · 11-30-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

You keep repeating this shit while ignoring the fact that McDaniels has done shit in St. Louis with Bradford.

Kyle Orton is not going to magically surrender his ability to throw accurately without McDaniels.

You are full of crap.

I would say that Orton looked better while McD was coaching him up. Obviously Orton isn't just going to lose ability just because a particular coach isn't around. But Orton did lose a valuable mentor and looked substantially worse to start this season. Too many variables to say it was a direct cause-and-effect relationship. McD's departure and Orton's decline, that is.

ChiefsCountry · 11-30-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

So Bradford needs a better O-line and receiver corps too? Steven Jackson is better than anything we had in the backfield this year.

Bradford would murder people with our talent we have on offense.

htismaqe · 11-30-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Chiefs OL is probably better than the Rams OL.

It's ****ing pathetic and sad. The Rams have paid big money for their OL, and Dahl has been the only one who has been earning his contract.

Noting this post for the benefit of the true fans...

Discuss Thrower · 11-30-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Bradford would murder people with our talent we have on offense.

There's an idea, we trade 2012 and 2013 1st rounders for Bradford... and Cassel to sweeten the pot.

**notorious** · 11-30-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

There's an idea, we trade 2012 and 2013 1st rounders for Bradford... and Cassel to sweeten the pot.

Not only no but **** NO!

We can give them Cassel for free.

Rams Fan · 11-30-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

There's an idea, we trade 2012 and 2013 1st rounders for Bradford... and Cassel to sweeten the pot.

No.

**The Franchise** · 11-30-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Hell in 2008/2009 thats what he wanted.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...4&postcount=47

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...6&postcount=43

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...8&postcount=34

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=209

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=126

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=129

Holy ****ing FAIL.

xztop12 · 11-30-2011, 06:17 PM

if we could have gotten urban meyer, both pouncey brothers and mcdaniels as OC, and traded for tebow it would haev owned!!

11-30-2011, 08:42 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	Haley versus McDaniels For those that think I love Cassel, I don't. I just think that Haley isn't nearly the offensive coordinator that McDaniels is. I think the biggest reason that many on here think that Orton is better is because he had two years with McDaniels while the Chiefs had Haley, then Weis, and now Haley again. Orton and Cassel have both struggled this year. Haley had a great offense in Arizona with Kurt Warner. McDaniels had a great offense with Tom Brady, but he also has had good offenses with Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel....ahem.... Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel. In 2007, Haley's first as a offensive coordinator, there is no comparison. McDaniels had a record setting offense at the top of the league. Haley had the 12th best offense. Winner: McDaniels. Haley might get some credit here since he was in his first year with the Cardinals. But, The Pats set the world on fire and set records and were just so much better, that you have to give the nod to McDaniels. In 2008, Haley had the fourth rated offense. He had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Breaston. Granted, the running backs weren't great. Edgerin James wasn't quite what he once was and they had Tim Hightower. In 2008, McDaniels had the fifth rated offense. He had Matt Cassel, Randy Moss and Wes Welker. And, believe it or not, the running backs in NE were even MORE underwhelming. Lamont Jordon, Maroney, Sammy Morris. 2008 edge: Despite Arizona ranking one spot higher, it would be foolish not to notice the distinct advantage in talent around Haley. so the edge goes to McDaniels. 2009- Daniels had the 15th best offense. He had Orton, Marshall and Royal. He didn't have much of a running threat. In 2009, Haley had the 25th best offense. He had Matt Cassel, D-Bowe, and Charles. Yeah, he didn't give Charles a ton of time until the end of the season. Who's fault is that? Who is the coach that saw JC on the field every day and still decided to play LJ? In 2010, Haley had Weis as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs were 12th in offense. The Broncos were 13th. The Chiefs had better offensive talent. Jones was still playing well last year, JC was out of this world. They had D-Bowe and Moeaki as well. Luckily, Haley had Weis to know how to use the talent. With Weis, they managed to be one spot higher than the Broncos. McDaniels had Orton, B LLoyd, Eddie Royal. Yet, he managed to get to the 13th ranking. 2011. Finally, a year that Haley can probably claim as better than McDaniels. The Chiefs are 27th in offense. The Rams are 29th. Now, lets look at talent. Matt Cassel versus Sam Bradford. Bradford is the obvious answer. However, a second year guy going into a new system, and an offseason with no training camp. Again, Bradford is the better guy, but overall situation? Haley might have the better overall situation. Cassel and even Palko had been with the Chiefs for a full year. Both McDaniels and Haley have had to have two games played with their backup QB. Jackson is clearly superior to anything that the Chiefs have in the backfield since JC went down. However, look at the talent on the outside and you will see the Chiefs have Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin..... heck, even McCluster would probably be one of the Rams top two WR's. Not kidding. They have Brandon Lloyd and Brandon Gibson. That is their top two WR's. So, even conceding that they have the best QB and RB in St. Louis, you look at the fact that McDaniels came to a brand new team without an offseason and is only 2 spots worse than the team that Haley has been building for three years. McDaniels was a crappy personnel guy. I concede that fact every day of the week. But, when it comes down to x's and o's. He outshines Haley by a huge margin. I think Haley may be the better overall head coach, but from a purely offensive creativity and coordination standpoint. Haley is far inferior to McDaniels. And any comparison between Orton and Cassel has to be based in this reality. And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.
Posts: 5,540

11-30-2011, 06:17 PM	#45
xztop12 Starter Join Date: May 2010 Casino cash: $10004900	if we could have gotten urban meyer, both pouncey brothers and mcdaniels as OC, and traded for tebow it would haev owned!!
Posts: 785