A wind power stat that may surprise you.

[Rain Man]

At least, it surprised me.

The figure is a little misleading because it was apparently a short-term peak in the wee hours of the morning, but it's nonetheless quite impressive. I had no idea they were anywhere near that level, and I'm perhaps even more impressed that the annual average in Colorado (edit: from this provider, which is Colorado's largest) is 17 percent.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news...dex.htm?iid=EL

Wind power hits 57% mark in Colorado
By Steve Hargreaves @CNNMoney August 6, 2012: 5:18 AM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- During the early morning hours of April 15, with a steady breeze blowing down Colorado's Front Range, the state's biggest utility set a U.S. record -- nearly 57% of the electricity being generated was coming from wind power.

As dawn came and the 1.4 million customers in Xcel Energy's service district began turning on the lights, toasters and other appliances, the utility's coal and natural gas-fired power plants ramped up production and brought wind's contribution back closer to its 2012 average of 17%.

Utilities have long been wary of placing too much finicky renewable power on the grid.

"A lot of utilities don't want to contract large amounts of wind because it's volatile," said Amy Grace, a wind analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance. "Anything over 25%, and utilities get nervous."

Colorado's overnight high-water mark demonstrated that utilities can indeed incorporate cleaner power sources into the mix.

It also provides hope that, under the right conditions and policies, wind will be able to provide a significantly larger share of the nation's power than its current 3% rate.

[Iowanian]

If turbines kill enough birds, they'll eventually turn into fossil fuels.


The larger issue isn't batteries, it's getting the utility grid built to handle the peak production. They're rarely running even close to capacity.


Placement is based mostly on wind. It's not about the perfect plain with no homes in quarter mile increments as much as it is about consistent wind.
Gusty is bad and the lack of wind in the summer months stop development in most places.

I also don't think they're ugly. Windmills have been part of the rural landscape for centuries, and are one of the things you think of in other countries, like Holland.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Before we make this comparison let's do the following:

1. require all middle eastern armed conflicts to be paid for in real time by a gasoline tax

2. require all "excess" healthcare bills associated with bad air quality be paid for by a coal tax

3. establish the economic impact of other environmental impacts (including climate change) and pay for those by a tax on the appropriate fossil fuel.

1) I don't understand why you are bringing up the Middle East.

2) How much "excess" healthcare needs have been generated by burning coal for generation of electricity?

3) How do you quantify that?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Before we make this comparison let's do the following:

1. require all middle eastern armed conflicts to be paid for in real time by a gasoline tax

2. require all "excess" healthcare bills associated with bad air quality be paid for by a coal tax

3. establish the economic impact of other environmental impacts (including climate change) and pay for those by a tax on the appropriate fossil fuel.

Can we also incorporate an "I like having energy when I need it" tax for wind energy?

It. Won't. Work. Not right now.

It's just the cutest, neatest, friendliest little theory in the world, but it's not a hell of a lot less useful than saying we should just all run our homes on Nuclear fusion. We don't have the technology in place right now to do this well.

[Iowanian]

When I hear people mention birds being knocked from the sky as a reason to discourage wind power, I ask them how many insects they smashed with the hood and windshield of their car on the way to that particular location.

Didn't stop them from driving.

[bsp4444]

Originally Posted by Donger

While "green" alternatives to fossil fuel generation are neat, they tend to cost a lot more "green" than fossil fuel generation. It's a shame that the article doesn't mention that.

What about current subsides to the oil industry? If those were removed, would we not be ona more level playing field?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

If turbines kill enough birds, they'll eventually turn into fossil fuels.


The larger issue isn't batteries, it's getting the utility grid built to handle the peak production. They're rarely running even close to capacity.


Placement is based mostly on wind. It's not about the perfect plain with no homes in quarter mile increments as much as it is about consistent wind.
Gusty is bad and the lack of wind in the summer months stop development in most places.

I also don't think they're ugly. Windmills have been part of the rural landscape for centuries, and are one of the things you think of in other countries, like Holland.

They can be throttled or the blades turned to 'sluff' the wind off if energy gets too high. The problem then becomes one of simple inefficiency.

If the battery technology advances to where they aren't sluffing, but rather storing, that energy - it can be trickled into the grid in a manner that is commensurate with use.

EDIT: As to your second inquiry - I'm not a hippy. I don't so much care about the birds (they'll make more, birds are good at finding ways to kill themselves). I'm just pointing out that people that act like there aren't environmental impacts from these things are fooling themselves. They disrupt the ecosystems in the areas they're placed a fair amount (you have to get vehicles in/out for maintenance, dig for transmission, etc...).

[Donger]

Originally Posted by bsp4444

What about current subsides to the oil industry? If those were removed, would we not be ona more level playing field?

We use very little petroleum in the generation of our electricity. So, no, it wouldn't.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

When I hear people mention birds being knocked from the sky as a reason to discourage wind power, I ask them how many insects they smashed with the hood and windshield of their car on the way to that particular location.

Didn't stop them from driving.

Yeah, but bugs aren't cute.

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I bet my neighbors wouldn't like me doing this on my 3,600 sq. ft. lot, but one does wonder how it compares to solar. I have a great hunger to put solar panels on my house and am just trying to win my wife over on it. Our neighbor got solar panels and was told that it would be an eight-year breakeven, so I'm looking forward to hearing how his first year goes.

Probably not.

They have distorted the numbers on wind so bad most people don't realize how bad it is. I know a company who tried to sell small "single home" units and have a family member who worked on a couple of the big fields in NW Missouri. They both laugh anytime people bring up the cost "savings" of our current wind technology and like to bring up maintenance costs to top it off.

I've considered a solar system a couple times, but simply couldn't wrap my head around the numbers. Hopefully our government doesn't impede the technological advances in either industry and they either vastly improve or go back to the drawing board.

[Lonewolf Ed]

Originally Posted by Bump

Wind Power is really really bad. /republicans

I mean, the nations top priority is keeping the mega rich, rich and getting them richer. how is wind power going to contribute to that?

I am a Republican and wind power is NOT bad. I think it is really, really good. Chinese wind generators are bad. Danish ones are the best; they are large and don't have to spin fast to generate electricity. One of my cousins in Denmark is the CEO of a huge energy company and they had more than a 2 billion dollar, not kroner, turnover last year. Wind energy is their thing as well as other renewable energy sources. My cousin bought a nice new Range Rover and an expensive speed boat, so he's doing very well.

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Can we also incorporate an "I like having energy when I need it" tax for wind energy?

It. Won't. Work. Not right now.

It's just the cutest, neatest, friendliest little theory in the world, but it's not a hell of a lot less useful than saying we should just all run our homes on Nuclear fusion. We don't have the technology in place right now to do this well.

The smart grid technology isn't out of reach and is being developed right now. Saying it won't work isn't really accurate.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by cdcox

The smart grid technology isn't out of reach and is being developed right now. Saying it won't work isn't really accurate.

What smart grid technology?