Put Dorsey's Head On The Chopping Block

[Direckshun]

It is very, very early in John Dorsey's tenure here, but unless the talent he's acquired magically turns it around by midpoint of the season, I believe we should be shopping for a new GM by the end of the season.

Now, this is a big deal (I would like to think), coming from me. I was among the last defenders on this site of Scott Pioli, and I still think his drafting record here was strong. I believe in the process, in giving GMs extreme leeway and time in shuffling the roster and building a team full of the kind of guys we want.

But Dorsey came in with a plum opportunity. He had the core of a team already built for him (minus the one critical position), the #1 pick in the draft, and a ridiculous amount of free agency cap room to spend, spend, spend.

With these incredible gifts given to him, gifts that any new GM would kill for (rather than the shit sandwich a new GM would get in 2015...), Dorsey took the absolute worst path.

He sacrificed the future of the franchise for a quick playoff run, completely overpaying in offseason talent, hamstringing our budget for 2014 and 2015 so that we let a full quarter of our team's starters walk, including two Pro Bowlers, with zero ability to replace any of the departing talent effectively (with the sole exception of replacing Kendrick Lewis with Husain Abdullah, but even that was a Plan B after Mr. Glass Commings is out for another year).

We were unable to retain Brandon Albert, Brandon Flowers, Ryan Succop, Tyson Jackson, Dexter McCulster, Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz because we had to have Mike DeVito, Chase Daniel, Dunta Robinson, Sean Smith, Donnie Avery, and Anthony Fasano. That is a complete loss on every level, and again, it happened because Dorsey acted like a teenager after receiving his first paycheck rather than the patient, methodical personnel guru he was alleged to be.

The Alex Smith trade was defensible on its own terms, I believe. (We overpayed with the two 2nds, but we overpayed for Bowe and Colquitt, and both of those were defensible as well, as the team was seriously ****ed without the player in question.) But coupled with the Chase Daniel acquisition and this team's continued chickenshit behavior regarding the QB position in the draft, and it once again showed a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to win in a league being skewed further and further away from the Alex Smiths and Matt Cassels of the world. In a league that's continually changing, Dorsey, Reid and Alex Smith are keeping the team stagnant.

Well, less than stagnant, really. The biggest crime of the young John Dorsey era has been the drafting, which has been horrific. It's every bit as obsessed with 40 times and measurables and ignorant of on field performance as the Al Davis regime used to be. We burned the #1 overall pick on a likely bust at tackle. We burned our first this year on a passrusher that isn't helping us win. We burned our third this year on a corner that was worse than Vince Agnew this preseason. And none of our low-round picks are working out, up to and including our UDFAs, where GMs need to distinguish themselves. It's insane to think that Scott Pioli had a better record with UDFAs, which is saying something considering that Pioli only hit on one his entire time here.

I do a ton of mock drafts throughout the year, most of them terrible, but all of them viscerally enjoyable for me to postulate. It's lost a lot of its luster this year, even as we are entering a year with 11 draft picks, because projecting the projects and boom/likely-bust players that Dorsey falls in love with makes the exercise depressing. We end up with a super-young team full of talent that can't see the field, and likely rarely ever will.

I'm willing to change my tune, as I always am, if some of this plan looks to be solid for the future, and not just for the present, by the middle of the season. But it would have to be a dramatic shift for me to feel that way.

That said, we can still end up in a good position here. The Alex Smith contract, which ironically is the best contract Dorsey has signed here, makes Smith expendable if a new GM is brought in at the end of the year. If Andy Reid still wants Alex Smith after a 4-12 season, fire him too. If Andy Reid can't get along with the new GM, fire him. If Andy Reid can't call a winning gameplan in 2015, fire him.

This front office refused to utilize their patience when constructing this roster. In the process, they've lost mine.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm also pretty sure last years "spending spree" etc came from ownership to get back to respectability ASAP.

Of course it did. And there were plenty of people out there warning the fans that it was doomed if the intent was to build a championship contender. Of course, that was never the case, because Hunt doesn't care about championships, he wants a filled stadium and he can get that with 7-9. Just get the team to purgatory and the saps will come.

That's why the problem isn't John Dorsey, Scott Pioli, Matt Cassel, Carl Peterson, or Alex Smith. The problem is, and for 40 years has been, the Hunt family. Until they sell the team (never going to happen) or change their priorities (lawl) the team will wade in a sea of mediocrity.

[LoneWolf]

It's ridiculous for you to say Pioli drafted well and then turn around and say it's time to fire Dorsey because of his drafts. Pioli's picks have been in the league long enough to prove that the majority of them are steaming piles of donkey shit. Dorsey's picks haven't completed 2 seasons yet. Here are Dorsey's picks so far.

2013
Fisher--Starting at LT and he has struggled. He played better than I expected on Sunday.
Kelce--Looks to have the potential to be a good starting TE.
Knile Davis--showed in limited time last season that he is adequate when called upon.
Nico--bad pick. He has zero instincts for the game.
Commings--can't stay healthy. Bad pick.
Eric Kush--future starter on the OL. Has looked good in limited action.
Braden Wilson--bad pick.
Catapano--Lot of excitement over this player, but he hasn't shown anything yet. Jury is out.

2014
Dee Ford--Lightning fast first step. Eventual successor to Hali.
Phillip Gaines--Looked lost in the preseason, but has press cover skills.
D'Anthony Thomas--Great return man with better skills than McCluster.
Aaron Murray--At one time was touted as a first round pick. Had good and bad moments in preseason.
Zach Fulton--Starter at guard and looks outmatched.
Laurent Duvernay-Tardiff--Complete project.

3 players from his first draft are playing significant minutes with 2 more that look like they could be regular contributors in the future. That kind of draft isn't exceptional, but it is pretty standard for the majority of GMs. Definitely not worthy of a "fire his ass" thread during his second season.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

You've said that both times. I've rebutted both times.

I fail to see what going through the exercise a third time accomplishes.

Claiming that you offered a rebuttal is not the same as actually presenting a rebuttal. If Pioli's draft record was as solid as you claim, you should have little difficulty finding 20 teams over the same period with worse records.

You can't and you won't because there aren't 20 teams with worse draft records. If there were, this would be AFL ****ing II

[O.city]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Of course it did. And there were plenty of people out there warning the fans that it was doomed if the intent was to build a championship contender. Of course, that was never the case, because Hunt doesn't care about championships, he wants a filled stadium and he can get that with 7-9. Just get the team to purgatory and the saps will come.

That's why the problem isn't John Dorsey, Scott Pioli, Matt Cassel, Carl Peterson, or Alex Smith. The problem is, and for 40 years has been, the Hunt family. Until they sell the team (never going to happen) or change their priorities (lawl) the team will wade in a sea of mediocrity.

I think that's pretty spot on.

Which is why the whole fire Dorsey talk is pretty asisnine. They did this offseason what should have happened last year.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf

It's ridiculous for you to say Pioli drafted well and then turn around and say it's time to fire Dorsey because of his drafts. Pioli's picks have been in the league long enough to prove that the majority of them are steaming piles of donkey shit. Dorsey's picks haven't completed 2 seasons yet. Here are Dorsey's picks so far.

2013
Fisher--Starting at LT and he has struggled. He played better than I expected on Sunday.
Kelce--Looks to have the potential to be a good starting TE.
Knile Davis--showed in limited time last season that he is adequate when called upon.
Nico--bad pick. He has zero instincts for the game.
Commings--can't stay healthy. Bad pick.
Eric Kush--future starter on the OL. Has looked good in limited action.
Braden Wilson--bad pick.
Catapano--Lot of excitement over this player, but he hasn't shown anything yet. Jury is out.

2014
Dee Ford--Lightning fast first step. Eventual successor to Hali.
Phillip Gaines--Looked lost in the preseason, but has press cover skills.
D'Anthony Thomas--Great return man with better skills than McCluster.
Aaron Murray--At one time was touted as a first round pick. Had good and bad moments in preseason.
Zach Fulton--Starter at guard and looks outmatched.
Laurent Duvernay-Tardiff--Complete project.

3 players from his first draft are playing significant minutes with 2 more that look like they could be regular contributors in the future. That kind of draft isn't exceptional, but it is pretty standard for the majority of GMs. Definitely not worthy of a "fire his ass" thread during his second season.

C'mon we need to fire front office and coaches every 17 reg season games til we win a SB. It's gotta work!!

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Of course it did. And there were plenty of people out there warning the fans that it was doomed if the intent was to build a championship contender. Of course, that was never the case, because Hunt doesn't care about championships, he wants a filled stadium and he can get that with 7-9. Just get the team to purgatory and the saps will come.

That's why the problem isn't John Dorsey, Scott Pioli, Matt Cassel, Carl Peterson, or Alex Smith. The problem is, and for 40 years has been, the Hunt family. Until they sell the team (never going to happen) or change their priorities (lawl) the team will wade in a sea of mediocrity.

[RunKC]

The primary problem right now is more on coaching, not John Dorsey.

Andy Reid is the reason we got Alex and gave up 2 2nd rd picks. He loved Alex and wanted the guy here. Had to have it his way.
Dorsey had no choice but to give up that price for Alex, so 2 valuable picks gone.

Dorsey drafts Fisher, who honestly looked a lot better on Sunday. He looked like a respectable NFL LT.
He drafted Kelce, who looks awesome. Oh wait, Reid only had him on the goddamn field for 18 snaps and 5 targets. WTF are you doing Reid?

Dorsey brings in Vance Walker to help the pass rush. The guy gets ONE snap on Sunday. ONE. And it was a needed sack. Why in the ****ing realm of ****s would you not play this guy more?

You can absolutely say that you don't like Dorsey's plan to build for next year with this draft and he could have brought in at least one other quality FA for cheap, but to say his picks aren't working is laughable.

We know that DAT and Kelce are going to be BAMF. We also know that Dee Ford and Phillip Gaines will rarely play this year. So I ask you. If Fisher looks solid like he did Sunday and Kelce, Cooper and DAT break out into good playmakers, will you still point the finger at Dorsey for not drafting well?

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Of course it did. And there were plenty of people out there warning the fans that it was doomed if the intent was to build a championship contender. Of course, that was never the case, because Hunt doesn't care about championships, he wants a filled stadium and he can get that with 7-9. Just get the team to purgatory and the saps will come.

That's why the problem isn't John Dorsey, Scott Pioli, Matt Cassel, Carl Peterson, or Alex Smith. The problem is, and for 40 years has been, the Hunt family. Until they sell the team (never going to happen) or change their priorities (lawl) the team will wade in a sea of mediocrity.

We'll put. Except for the fact that we aren't under spending. We're almost maxed out in cap space, and a championship will fill the stadium faster than anything. Might be hard for a "master of the custodial arts" to understand, but I'm pretty sure the people who have money actually invested in the team or even regular fans would understand! Dumb argument!

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by RunKC

The primary problem right now is more on coaching, not John Dorsey.

Andy Reid is the reason we got Alex and gave up 2 2nd rd picks. He loved Alex and wanted the guy here. Had to have it his way.
Dorsey had no choice but to give up that price for Alex, so 2 valuable picks gone.

Dorsey drafts Fisher, who honestly looked a lot better on Sunday. He looked like a respectable NFL LT.
He drafted Kelce, who looks awesome. Oh wait, Reid only had him on the goddamn field for 18 snaps and 5 targets. WTF are you doing Reid?

Dorsey brings in Vance Walker to help the pass rush. The guy gets ONE snap on Sunday. ONE. And it was a needed sack. Why in the ****ing realm of ****s would you not play this guy more?

You can absolutely say that you don't like Dorsey's plan to build for next year with this draft and he could have brought in at least one other quality FA for cheap, but to say his picks aren't working is laughable.

We know that DAT and Kelce are going to be BAMF. We also know that Dee Ford and Phillip Gaines will rarely play this year. So I ask you. If Fisher looks solid like he did Sunday and Kelce, along with DAT, break out into good playmakers, will you still point the finger at Dorsey for not drafting well?

Sutton needs to go.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by RunKC

The primary problem right now is more on coaching, not John Dorsey.

Andy Reid is the reason we got Alex and gave up 2 2nd rd picks. He loved Alex and wanted the guy here. Had to have it his way.
Dorsey had no choice but to give up that price for Alex, so 2 valuable picks gone.

Dorsey drafts Fisher, who honestly looked a lot better on Sunday. He looked like a respectable NFL LT.
He drafted Kelce, who looks awesome. Oh wait, Reid only had him on the goddamn field for 18 snaps and 5 targets. WTF are you doing Reid?

Dorsey brings in Vance Walker to help the pass rush. The guy gets ONE snap on Sunday. ONE. And it was a needed sack. Why in the ****ing realm of ****s would you not play this guy more?

You can absolutely say that you don't like Dorsey's plan to build for next year with this draft and he could have brought in at least one other quality FA for cheap, but to say his picks aren't working is laughable.

We know that DAT and Kelce are going to be BAMF. We also know that Dee Ford and Phillip Gaines will rarely play this year. So I ask you. If Fisher looks solid like he did Sunday and Kelce, along with DAT, break out into good playmakers, will you still point the finger at Dorsey for not drafting well?

I hate Reid and never wanted him in the first place so I will not be defending him but if you look at the depth of this team outside of QB, RB, and TE this team is ****ing horrible depth wise.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Sutton needs to go.

Totally agree. I think he will be given til seasons end. Only prob is who takes his place then. It's gonna be another former Andy Reid assistant. Also I'd like to know who came up with the offensive gameplan for the Titans game. Was it Reid, or Peterson?

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Andy Reid is the reason we got Alex and gave up 2 2nd rd picks. He loved Alex and wanted the guy here. Had to have it his way.
Dorsey had no choice but to give up that price for Alex, so 2 valuable picks gone.

Mother Mother****ing Teresa could negotiate a better deal for a player than John Dorsey can.

That guy has yet to sign a player to a contract or make a transaction that has me going, "Wow, nice job! That's a great deal!"

Pioli had the trade down out of the 1st round in 2011. The Jamaal Charles extension. The Derrick Johnson extension. He was still a ****ing moron, but when the situation was obvious on how best to negotiate, he could be fairly shrewd.

I'm pretty sure if Clark had kept Pioli on as GM and told him to just do whatever Andy says, he would have acquired Alex Smith for a lot less than TWO mother ****ing 2nd round picks.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I hate Reid and never wanted him in the first place so I will not be defending him but if you look at the depth of this team outside of QB, RB, and TE this team is ****ing horrible depth wise.

DL isn't too bad. Bailey and Walker are our backups and both got sacks Sunday.
We're bringing in Vickerson because we don't have shit behind them with Cat and DeVito out.

I like JMJ a lot. I really do. We'll see.

CB is a dumpster fire with Owens and Parker. Unknown with Gaines. Safety is terrible depth wise. OL has some guys I'd like to see play at the end of the year in Kush and LDT, but other then that you are right. We need a WR too.

Our GM will finally have enough picks next year. In fact he'll have extra. Next year needs to be a year where we trade and be aggressive. Getting 3 or 4 good players like 2008. This is the perfect opportunity.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by RunKC

The primary problem right now is more on coaching, not John Dorsey.

Andy Reid is the reason we got Alex and gave up 2 2nd rd picks. He loved Alex and wanted the guy here. Had to have it his way.
Dorsey had no choice but to give up that price for Alex, so 2 valuable picks gone.

Dorsey drafts Fisher, who honestly looked a lot better on Sunday. He looked like a respectable NFL LT.
He drafted Kelce, who looks awesome. Oh wait, Reid only had him on the goddamn field for 18 snaps and 5 targets. WTF are you doing Reid?

Dorsey brings in Vance Walker to help the pass rush. The guy gets ONE snap on Sunday. ONE. And it was a needed sack. Why in the ****ing realm of ****s would you not play this guy more?

You can absolutely say that you don't like Dorsey's plan to build for next year with this draft and he could have brought in at least one other quality FA for cheap, but to say his picks aren't working is laughable.

We know that DAT and Kelce are going to be BAMF. We also know that Dee Ford and Phillip Gaines will rarely play this year. So I ask you. If Fisher looks solid like he did Sunday and Kelce, Cooper and DAT break out into good playmakers, will you still point the finger at Dorsey for not drafting well?

Sounds like a lot of "ifs". If Fisher plays well, if Kelce plays well, if DAT sees the field ...