Chiefs McDowell: Why The Chiefs Pursuit to Renovate Arrowhead Has Hit A Snag - Page 3

tk13 · 12-01-2023, 05:36 PM

We've been talking about this for a few weeks over in the Royals thread. It's been interesting to see how quiet the Chiefs have been while the Royals negotiate for a new stadium, and in the last couple weeks there's more and more smoke that the Chiefs and Royals staying in Jackson County is not a sure thing. Sam McDowell finally wrote about it. It's a very long column so I just picked some highlights. It's a good breakdown of the situation. It sounds like Kansas hasn't made any serious offers but they're the obvious alternative if Jackson County decides to punt, and it sounds like the Royals and Chiefs want answers soon.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...282553078.html

Quote:

The Chiefs are quietly evaluating the need to pursue alternatives outside Jackson County as their push to negotiate a renewal of a county-wide sales tax has failed to launch substantive conversations, multiple sources told The Star. Well, it was quietly. You’re probably aware of the recent rhetoric, including from some local politicians, implying that the Chiefs already have one foot out the door — and are strutting toward Kansas, no less. That gasoline-on-the-fire message follows a worst-case-scenario playbook, not to mention a Kansas City tactic of pitting two states against each other for its prized assets. But this doesn’t paint an entirely accurate picture. The Chiefs have not engaged in serious conversations with outside parties about a move across the state line, sources told me, a sentiment confirmed to The Star’s Katie Bernard by Brianna Johnson, a spokeswoman for Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly. That doesn’t mean they won’t.

---

The Royals started and initially drove the stadium conversation, not only publicly, but behind the scenes too. The Chiefs weren’t completely silent observers, but they appeared content to allow the Royals to negotiate a new lease with Jackson County and county executive Frank White, and then follow with what would ideally be a smoother and quicker conversation.

The latter has just simply not been the case. The former, waiting on the conclusion of Royals’ negotiations, has since changed. What’s been lost along the way is that the Chiefs, too, are interested in an April 2024 ballot measure, for reasons I’ll cover here. And as a Jan. 23 deadline to secure that ballot measure has neared, they ignited their own talks, separate from the Royals, earlier this fall. “We have met with Frank and the county attorneys in an introductory meeting,” Chiefs team president Mark Donovan said in a statement. “We shared that we would like to focus on extending the current 3/8th-cent sales tax. This partnership has served us well for over 50 years, and we look forward to working with them to enhance the amazing community asset that GEHA Field at Arrowhead Stadium has become.” Where do those talks stand now? “We have not heard back from the county,” Donovan said.

---

The Chiefs have sought a 25-year renewal of the 3/8th-cent sales tax passed in 2006, as Donovan’s statement said, with no significant additions to the long-standing lease. That’s the path they are attempting to navigate, with a conclusion that would keep them at Arrowhead, a fan-favorite, for the next quarter-century. But in my discussions with an array of politicos, it’s evident to many that White does not believe the current lease agreement benefits Jackson County, which funds and manages the facilities but does not receive direct revenue from the stadiums. The deal is more complicated than the tax — for example, no one has raised a hand to pay for demolition of Kauffman Stadium if the Royals move, an expense that would total tens of millions of dollars.

---

White is positioned at the center of this saga as the county executive who just so happens to be a member of the Royals Hall of Fame. But his lack of eagerness to extend the status quo is not an isolated view within the county, sources said. He has at least some support from the legislature, though there are varying opinions about the reach and depth of that support. And therefore it’s notable that others within the county government want to create a path for the Chiefs to circumvent White by securing backing from a majority of the legislators to extend the sales tax. There is doubt, however, about whether they would have enough support to override a potential veto from White, if it were to come to that.

---

The Royals, who have had more frequent meetings with the county, have stated their preference to play downtown baseball sooner rather than later. Their recent focus has primarily been analyzing the logistics of the former Kansas City Star press building along the south loop, and they have started the process of creating renderings for the site, sources said. They’ve also publicly stated their target of an April ballot measure, which comes with that rapidly approaching Jan. 23 deadline. It’s a deadline that the Chiefs are targeting, too — with a more concrete plan, at least to date. I’ll put this out there before I continue: In the course of speaking with several people for this column, there are overwhelmingly more who classify an April ballot measure as a long-shot than those who expect the county and teams to reach an agreement before the mid-January date.

Read more at: https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...#storylink=cpy

Titty Meat · 12-02-2023, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Why? This would not be good for KCMO or Missouri in general.

The state is pretty bad on things that actually matter like education, health, infrastructure.

The city will have SKC in the east village in a decade and nobody will care the Royals moved to Kansas.

DanT · 12-02-2023, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Does that county also get the majority of the tax revenue created by having the team there?

I don’t know if it’s the majority, but Johnson County Kansas sure gets a lot of revenue from Chiefs fans staying there the night before games and driving in on I-435 and other roads. Johnson County has benefited off of Jackson County for years, going back to retail Blue Laws that had Missourians shopping in Johnson County department stores and malls on Sunday, until those laws in Missouri were repealed in the mid-70s.

I doubt that it’s a good deal for Jackson County but I am fair minded, have a PhD in statistics, have co-authored over 300 scientific articles and am counted upon to do high-stakes peer reviews of research proposals and papers. If it’s a good deal, then show me the numbers. If it’s just the usual horseshit where the poor subsidize the rich people’s leisure that happens all over the United States compounded with Jackson County subsidizing Johnson Countians who then turn around and call Jackson Countians like Frank White all kinds of names, then they can go **** themselves all the way off.

**Rausch** · 12-02-2023, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63

I think the size of the place solely for the Chiefs would be awesome.

Not sure if all the long term season ticket holders feel like Arrowhead is past it's prime and want more amenities they currently don't have.

This is what I had also hoped would happen. I assumed the Hunts and whomever else would lay out what needed to be done and KC/County would decide if they were going to do it or not. Then the Chiefs decide to stay or leave to Kansas for a better deal. It's not fair but my guess is the county is able or chooses to take the lead and make this happen or it won't.

I know historically St. Louis gets about whatever they want and KC is literally the Red headed step child that never gets votes for much of anything. Much of Missouri seems ok with everything leaving KC and STL being the dominant and only important metro area in the State. I don't pretend to understand why this is or why that appears to be the situation but it does. Unfortunately I wouldn't be shocked if they ended up staying or leaving.

**Rausch** · 12-02-2023, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanT

If it’s just the usual horseshit where the poor subsidize the rich people’s leisure that happens all over the United States compounded with Jackson County subsidizing Johnson Countians who then turn around and call Jackson Countians like Frank White all kinds of names, then they can go **** themselves all the way off.

I don't live in KC but I do live in JC and hear a lot of the talk on votes for different proposals. More accurately the bitching after they take place. It at least appears to be the political will seems to think if the County wants to keep it or improve it they will but they're not getting much of anything from the state. They either don't care either way or can at least take that stance and force the county to shoulder the burden.

I think it's shitty and don't understand it. I'd prefer to see a better state and two great metro areas. Make everywhere better to live in.

ChiefsCountry · 12-02-2023, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanT

I don’t know if it’s the majority, but Johnson County Kansas sure gets a lot of revenue from Chiefs fans staying there the night before games and driving in on I-435 and other roads. Johnson County has benefited off of Jackson County for years, going back to retail Blue Laws that had Missourians shopping in Johnson County department stores and malls on Sunday, until those laws in Missouri were repealed in the mid-70s.

I doubt that it’s a good deal for Jackson County but I am fair minded, have a PhD in statistics, have co-authored over 300 scientific articles and am counted upon to do high-stakes peer reviews of research proposals and papers. If it’s a good deal, then show me the numbers. If it’s just the usual horseshit where the poor subsidize the rich people’s leisure that happens all over the United States compounded with Jackson County subsidizing Johnson Countians who then turn around and call Jackson Countians like Frank White all kinds of names, then they can go **** themselves all the way off.

Frank White is being a **** for being fired from the Royals. Everyone is saying it across the spectrum.

DanT · 12-02-2023, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Frank White is being a **** for being fired from the Royals. Everyone is saying it across the spectrum.

Are they backing it up with any plausible arguments showing he's wrong? Where are those arguments? "Everybody" knows that stadium deals are all about grifting.
https://www.twinkietown.com/2020/10/...ns-texas-taxes

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-th...SAAEgLsI_D_BwE

Woogieman · 12-02-2023, 12:13 PM

Some people act as if they've never seen posturing before.

Discuss Thrower · 12-02-2023, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woogieman

Some people act as if they've never seen posturing before.

There isn't really a justification for a city or state paying money for a stadium beyond "pride."

Chiefs probably can't really go anywhere unless Clark really wants to be the pioneer of the first internationally-based NFL team by putting them in Mexico City or something.

But the Royals could absolutely be moved to any number of cities that might make a lot more sense for Sherman than remaining in a rapidly declining Kansas City metro.

dlphg9 · 12-02-2023, 12:47 PM

If what was reported about Frank White in regards to the recent Use Tax is true, then he is definitely a sleezy skeeze bag. Supposedly he wouldn't sign it, so it could go to the ballot, because he knew the people of Jackson county were pissed because of the recent spike in county assessed home values and he didn't like that the language for how it would be spent was so specific. Why wouldn't he want it as specific as possible? Couldn't get his own cut of the pie, so he said **** that shit?

ChiefsCountry · 12-02-2023, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

There isn't really a justification for a city or state paying money for a stadium beyond "pride."

Chiefs probably can't really go anywhere unless Clark really wants to be the pioneer of the first internationally-based NFL team by putting them in Mexico City or something.

But the Royals could absolutely be moved to any number of cities that might make a lot more sense for Sherman than remaining in a rapidly declining Kansas City metro.

Kansas City isn't a declining metro lol

Mr_Tomahawk · 12-02-2023, 12:52 PM

Arrowhead need to bring back the rolling cover concept.

dlphg9 · 12-02-2023, 12:56 PM

Also, I'm not sure I see why so many seem to act like the sales tax extension is such a huge burden. Jackson countys portion of the sales tax is only 1.38%. With the Chiefs and Royals only getting 3/8th of a cent, then that means .375% is because of them. That means if you spend an absurd $50,000 a year in Jackson Co. the local teams are getting $187.50. That's a while $15.63/month.

I'm willing to bet none of you are spending that much anyway, so it's less than that. Hell most people contribute less than $100 each year. To me that's not worth losing either team over.

dlphg9 · 12-02-2023, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Kansas City isn't a declining metro lol

Yeah I'm not sure where he's coming up with that. It's the exact opposite of declining. If the metro lost the teams, then it would definitely become a declining metro though.

Discuss Thrower · 12-02-2023, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Kansas City isn't a declining metro lol

Hard to fill luxury boxes with corporate clients with corporations don't stick around..

Cerner, DST, KC Southern..

Chief Pagan · 12-02-2023, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

There isn't really a justification for a city or state paying money for a stadium beyond "pride."

Chiefs probably can't really go anywhere unless Clark really wants to be the pioneer of the first internationally-based NFL team by putting them in Mexico City or something.

But the Royals could absolutely be moved to any number of cities that might make a lot more sense for Sherman than remaining in a rapidly declining Kansas City metro.

Really?

So I don't follow which cities are possibilities that closely, but if the KC area just refused to do anything on a stadium and Clark was inclined...

You really don't think the team could be moved to another American city?

How much longer will Jerry be able to prevent San Antonio from getting a Team?

12-02-2023, 12:13 PM	#37
Woogieman Veteran Join Date: Mar 2021 Casino cash: $1600400	Some people act as if they've never seen posturing before.
Posts: 1,173	1 0

12-02-2023, 12:47 PM	#39
dlphg9 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1450347	If what was reported about Frank White in regards to the recent Use Tax is true, then he is definitely a sleezy skeeze bag. Supposedly he wouldn't sign it, so it could go to the ballot, because he knew the people of Jackson county were pissed because of the recent spike in county assessed home values and he didn't like that the language for how it would be spent was so specific. Why wouldn't he want it as specific as possible? Couldn't get his own cut of the pie, so he said **** that shit?
Posts: 20,375

12-02-2023, 12:52 PM	#41
Mr_Tomahawk Prestige Worldwide Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Spring Hill, KS Casino cash: $-19474	Arrowhead need to bring back the rolling cover concept. __________________ Adopt-A-Chief: John Dorsey
Posts: 18,619	3 0

12-02-2023, 12:56 PM	#42
dlphg9 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1450347	Also, I'm not sure I see why so many seem to act like the sales tax extension is such a huge burden. Jackson countys portion of the sales tax is only 1.38%. With the Chiefs and Royals only getting 3/8th of a cent, then that means .375% is because of them. That means if you spend an absurd $50,000 a year in Jackson Co. the local teams are getting $187.50. That's a while $15.63/month. I'm willing to bet none of you are spending that much anyway, so it's less than that. Hell most people contribute less than $100 each year. To me that's not worth losing either team over.
Posts: 20,375