Cardinals ***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread*** - Page 30

**BigRedChief** · 10:46 AM

2022 Opening Day Lineup

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2022 Opening Day roster

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For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

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**BigRedChief** · 07-19-2022, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

The money Soto is about to get sure makes that Harper deal look good, doesn’t it?

If I’m the Cardinals front office, I add him. I strongly considering taking on two years of Patrick Corbin for $50 ($10M of his 2024 salary is deferred) to lessen my prospect pay out. And I just write the check. They could afford it, easily.

thanks to Flores we have more talent in the pipeline than we have had in years.

I’ve read many articles on Walker that say his ceiling is an MVP and if he stays healthy and hungry HOF. Obviously Soto is way above Walkers potential talent. He has proven he is the real deal. So does Bader, O’Neill and another same level prospect get er done or is the Mets players just superior to ours?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

If you want to get Soto even cheaper player wise, you take on Stephen Strasburg's contract. That's where the Dodgers could involved easier. They also have a shit ton of contracts coming off the books.

I don’t see the tightwad Dewitt and the incompetent Mo take on salary instead of trading more talent. Even though they got $50 million from the Rockies to pay Arenado.

If taking on money becomes crucial to the deal, the Dodgers and other cash rich teams start to get involved and we have no chance.

DJ's left nut · 07-19-2022, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

The money Soto is about to get sure makes that Harper deal look good, doesn’t it?

If I’m the Cardinals front office, I add him. I strongly considering taking on two years of Patrick Corbin for $50 ($10M of his 2024 salary is deferred) to lessen my prospect pay out. And I just write the check. They could afford it, easily.

I missed this.

**** YOU, DUNCAN!!!!!

Like you don't remember that this is a REAL sore subject of mine and aren't twisting the knife.

I WARNED YOU GUYS NOT TO HIRE MATHENY! This isn't my fault. Leave me alone, dammit.

!@#$!@#$%!

How the hell did we not sign Bryce Harper?!?! Boras was practically BEGGING us to do it. Ugh.

Now I'm irritated again. Such a monumentally stupid and truly franchise altering decision. "GiVe DeXy A cHaNcE!!!11!1"

Morons. All of them are morons.

**BigRedChief** · 07-19-2022, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I missed this.

**** YOU, DUNCAN!!!!!

Like you don't remember that this is a REAL sore subject of mine and aren't twisting the knife.

I WARNED YOU GUYS NOT TO HIRE MATHENY! This isn't my fault. Leave me alone, dammit.

!@#$!@#$%!

How the hell did we not sign Bryce Harper?!?! Boras was practically BEGGING us to do it. Ugh.

Now I'm irritated again. Such a monumentally stupid and truly franchise altering decision. "GiVe DeXy A cHaNcE!!!11!1"

Morons. All of them are morons.

Didn’t Titus jr and Luis Robert’s want to sign with the Cardinals but they said, no we are not paying a few measly millions to get the player. A few million.

ChiefsCountry · 07-19-2022, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Strasburg has a full NTC.

And very probably the most toxic contract in league history.

He's owed about $150 million still over the next 4+ seasons and may simply not be physically sound enough to ever contribute at this point.

I'm not sure you could package Acuna w/ his insanely under market contract w/ Strasburg and get that deal made.

Strasburg is a horror show for any team on a budget. And hell, even the Dodgers do seem to have limits. They lost Scherzer and Seager last off-season and seem concerned they could lose Turner as well.

Very few teams (probably none) can just take on a $35 million/yr liability and shrug it off. Not in the luxury tax era when that $35 million could turn into $60+ million as quick as a hiccup.

True but remember who the agent for both Soto and Strasburg are.

DJ's left nut · 07-19-2022, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Didn’t Titus jr and Luis Robert’s want to sign with the Cardinals but they said, no we are not paying a few measly millions to get the player. A few million.

Yup. Tatis Jr was evidently at a Cardinals summer league camp but I wont fault them too much there. He just wasn’t highly regarded. But for an organization who seems to sign every legacy option available to them, missing on Tatis when they were his top choice is a rough miss.

Robert, OTOH, was just weapons grade arrogance and stupidity. It was peak Mozeliak.

Rams Fan · 07-19-2022, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Robert, OTOH, was just weapons grade arrogance and stupidity. It was peak Mozeliak.

Nah, that's on DeWitt.

DJ's left nut · 07-19-2022, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Nah, that's on DeWitt.

You don’t think Moe could’ve gotten that done?

I do. Dewitt, by all accounts, provides a budget and gets out of the way. Robert was in the budget but Mozeliak spent those funds elsewhere.

Foolishly.

Rams Fan · 07-19-2022, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You don’t think Moe could’ve gotten that done?

I do. Dewitt, by all accounts, provides a budget and gets out of the way. Robert was in the budget but Mozeliak spent those funds elsewhere.

Foolishly.

DeWitt made the comment about having to pay a player a second contract.

There's things to criticize Mozeliak for (Ozuna for Alcantara being a huge one right now), but I think he works within the parameters DeWitt gives him for a budget.

If you want to argue Mozeliak does a poor job managing said budget and he, along with DeWitt, are foolish for not wanting to have a losing season for 2-3 years in order to finish above .500 every year with a faint shot at PO success with marginal upgrades before and during the season, I won't disagree.

Mozeliak's approach is the polar opposite of Jocketty's, which was say **** tomorrow, today's the only thing that matters (which is what ultimately got him fired). He does half-assed attempts that are cost effective at improving the roster in order to keep cheaper, cost controlled players long-term.

The last time I think the FO truly cared about winning was during the 2014 season.

DJ's left nut · 07-19-2022, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

DeWitt made the comment about having to pay a player a second contract.

There's things to criticize Mozeliak for (Ozuna for Alcantara being a huge one right now), but I think he works within the parameters DeWitt gives him for a budget.

If you want to argue Mozeliak does a poor job managing said budget and he, along with DeWitt, are foolish for not wanting to have a losing season for 2-3 years in order to finish above .500 every year with a faint shot at PO success with marginal upgrades before and during the season, I won't disagree.

Mozeliak's approach is the polar opposite of Jocketty's, which was say **** tomorrow, today's the only thing that matters (which is what ultimately got him fired).

Yeah, Dewitt said that, but Mozeliak said the same thing (something about winning the bid only gets oh the right to the player and you still have to pay him in arb, etc…)

He’s parroting what Mozeliak told him. Again, that’s baseball ops and DeWitt doesn’t involve himself in that outside of providing a payroll figure.

Robert was Mozeliak’s doing. I don’t think for one second that DeWitt put cuffs on him on this one international signing.

Rams Fan · 07-19-2022, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, Dewitt said that, but Mozeliak said the same thing (something about winning the bid only gets oh the right to the player and you still have to pay him in arb, etc…)

He’s parroting what Mozeliak told him. Again, that’s baseball ops and DeWitt doesn’t involve himself in that outside of providing a payroll figure.

Robert was Mozeliak’s doing. I don’t think for one second that DeWitt put cuffs on him on this one international signing.

This is the only quote I found attributed to Mozeliak on the matter in 2017

Quote:

"When you're looking at the overall investment, it's real and historically there are not too many players that sign for that many dollars," Mozeliak said. "It's really hard to justify those types of dollars for any player with a lack of a proven track record. No matter how you try to equate the Cuban league or his international experience, it's very hard to calibrate what that means to here.

The second contract comment came from DeWitt.

Regardless, I think Mozeliak is doing exactly what DeWitt wants him to do, which is he above .500, slimmer of hope for a PO run, while having any change in payroll remain flat or trending up as revenue rises.

The org’s philosophy won’t change unless DeWitt or his son sells.

DJ's left nut · 07-19-2022, 05:40 PM

Oh, and I’m not convinced the organization cared about winning in 2014. It was just cost effective.

The competitive fire in this organization came from LaRussa. When he left, that win at all costs mentality went with him. DeWitt has been content cashing checks ever since.

Winning is just a happy accident.

Rams Fan · 07-19-2022, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Oh, and I’m not convinced the organization cared about winning in 2014. It was just cost effective.

The competitive fire in this organization came from LaRussa. When he left, that win at all costs mentality went with him. DeWitt has been content cashing checks ever since.

Winning is just a happy accident.

Eh, I’d argue the moves immediately after 2011 were made with winning in mind.

duncan_idaho · 07-19-2022, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

thanks to Flores we have more talent in the pipeline than we have had in years.

I’ve read many articles on Walker that say his ceiling is an MVP and if he stays healthy and hungry HOF. Obviously Soto is way above Walkers potential talent. He has proven he is the real deal. So does Bader, O’Neill and another same level prospect get er done or is the Mets players just superior to ours?

I don’t see the tightwad Dewitt and the incompetent Mo take on salary instead of trading more talent. Even though they got $50 million from the Rockies to pay Arenado.

If taking on money becomes crucial to the deal, the Dodgers and other cash rich teams start to get involved and we have no chance.

If Jordan Walker isn’t on the table, I don’t think the deal gets done. Bader and ONeill just aren’t good enough headliners.

MAYBE you could get it done with Gordman and Winn and ONeill and Carlson. But awfully hard and draining without Walker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I missed this.

**** YOU, DUNCAN!!!!!

Like you don't remember that this is a REAL sore subject of mine and aren't twisting the knife.

I WARNED YOU GUYS NOT TO HIRE MATHENY! This isn't my fault. Leave me alone, dammit.

!@#$!@#$%!

How the hell did we not sign Bryce Harper?!?! Boras was practically BEGGING us to do it. Ugh.

Now I'm irritated again. Such a monumentally stupid and truly franchise altering decision. "GiVe DeXy A cHaNcE!!!11!1"

Morons. All of them are morons.

I wasn’t trying to twist the knife. Sorry man. The only persons who deserve a knife twist on Harper are Mozeliak and PB.

ChiefsCountry · 07-19-2022, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I wasn’t trying to twist the knife. Sorry man. The only persons who deserve a knife twist on Harper are Mozeliak and PB.

PB hates every free agency signing.

Marco Polo · 07-20-2022, 01:40 PM

Just read that the Nats want Corbin involved with any Soto trade. That sets the table up for me to unfortunately get my hopes up and disappointed because that request just made a potential Soto trade far more realistic on the Cardinals side. This would require far less trade capital that would allow the team to still acquire another pitcher.

03-19-2022, 07:50 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-571038 VARSITY	*Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread* 2022 Opening Day Lineup Spoiler! #stlcards on opening day: Carlson 9 Goldschmidt 3 O’Neill 7 Arenado 5 Pujols DH DeJong 6 Molina 2 Bader 8 Edman 4 Wainwright 1 — Jeff Jones (@jmjones) April 7, 2022 2022 Opening Day roster Spoiler! Pitchers: Adam Wainwright, Miles Mikolas, Steven Matz, Dakota Hudson. Relievers: Jordan Hicks, Drew VerHagen, Jake Woodford, Giovanny Gallegos, Ryan Helsey, A. Pallante, Genesis Cabrera, TJ McFarland, Nick Wittgren, Kodi Whitley, Aaron Brooks. Catchers: Yadier Molina, Andrew Knizner. Infielders: Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Arenado, Tommy Edman, Paul DeJong, Albert Pujols, Edmundo Sosa Outfielders: Tyler O’Neill, Harrison Bader, Dylan Carlson, Corey Dickerson, Lars Nootbaar. On the injured list are Jack Flaherty and Alex Reyes For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006. Spoiler! 2021 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124 2020 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273 2019 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239 2018 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 2012 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619 etc. All the way back to 2006 WS https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 Last edited by BigRedChief; 04-07-2022 at 10:46 AM..
Posts: 81,254

07-19-2022, 05:40 PM	#446
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-640901	Oh, and I’m not convinced the organization cared about winning in 2014. It was just cost effective. The competitive fire in this organization came from LaRussa. When he left, that win at all costs mentality went with him. DeWitt has been content cashing checks ever since. Winning is just a happy accident. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,722

07-20-2022, 01:40 PM	#450
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $3988908	Just read that the Nats want Corbin involved with any Soto trade. That sets the table up for me to unfortunately get my hopes up and disappointed because that request just made a potential Soto trade far more realistic on the Cardinals side. This would require far less trade capital that would allow the team to still acquire another pitcher.
Posts: 2,540