Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?

[Tribal Warfare]

Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Loyalty? Fairness?

You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited.

On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs.

Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse.

It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory.

“When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns.

“When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch.

“When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium.

That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense.

It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray.

We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too.

You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates.

Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants.

Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat?

You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel.

Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands.

Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley?

What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach?

I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind.

Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver.

Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse.

I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

But, there are reasons to believe shit can and will get better.

And what would those reasons be?

And you can't say "rookie head coach that will learn" or "talent depleted roster".

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

This HAS to be a joke



Again, are you joking? I've got about 10,000 posts suggesting what they should "do".

Read them.



He failed miserably this year. I see absolutely no indication that won't occur next year.



JFC, are you an n00b? In preseason, I was all over Darryl Harris and Colin Brown. Bowe, Cottam, Charles, Carr, Flowers, Dorsey, Albert, Morgan, Richardson, Leggett and Page ALL SHOULD BE the foundation in which the Chiefs build around.

Considering that many of them haven't seen the field as much as they should have this year, I have my doubts about Haley & Pioli's talent evaluations.

But quite honestly, I think you must have missed 95% of my posts this year.



Gee, thanks.

Im on this forum every day. I see your posts dude.

Yes, Pioli and Haley have ****ed up royaly. I agree, the choice to cut Pollard was a dumb move. I agree that Cottam should have been starting the whole time. But how much of that is on Pioli vs Haley? I blame Haley for those moves.

Pioli failed to bring in decent vets. Yes, we are all aware of that. But, lets say he brings in some good vets this offseason. Let's say our ILB's and Ron Edwards, and a few of our O-linemen are moved to second/third string and some quality players are brought in to start. Then would you say we have decent depth?

IMHO, Pioli brought in the Depth/special teamers this past offseason knowing, at worst, they could be soild depth/special teams contributers next season. He hoped to get some starters out of this project. Maybe we did find some starters, maybe we didn't. i don't know if i agree with this plan or not, but, he now knows what he has. for sure. Maybe he is adding the core first, and then adding the stars second. Either way, im willing to give him more then 14 games to determine wether or not Pioli is a failure.

Haley on the other hand, gets a much smaller window.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Im on this forum every day. I see your posts dude.

Yes, Pioli and Haley have ****ed up royaly. I agree, the choice to cut Pollard was a dumb move. I agree that Cottam should have been starting the whole time. But how much of that is on Pioli vs Haley? I blame Haley for those moves.

Pioli failed to bring in decent vets. Yes, we are all aware of that. But, lets say he brings in some good vets this offseason. Let's say our ILB's and Ron Edwards, and a few of our O-linemen are moved to second/third string and some quality players are brought in to start. Then would you say we have decent depth?

IMHO, Pioli brought in the Depth/special teamers this past offseason knowing, at worst, they could be soild depth/special teams contributers next season. He hoped to get some starters out of this project. Maybe we did find some starters, maybe we didn't. i don't know if i agree with this plan or not, but, he now knows what he has. for sure. Maybe he is adding the core first, and then adding the stars second. Either way, im willing to give him more then 14 games to determine wether or not Pioli is a failure.

Haley on the other hand, gets a much smaller window.

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

If, if, if.

That's all I see in your post.

Conjecture.

When Pioli & Haley deserve credit, I'll credit them.

When they don't, I won't.

Bottom line.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

What the hell are you talking about? Wilkerson did shit here. 1 sack in his entire Chiefs career. 11 in 2 years in Tampa. And he didn't have the benefit of Jared Allen in Tampa.

What about the hordes of DL he "improved" in Buffalo and Cincinnati. Umm...who, exactly? Tim "T-Rex" Anderson?

You know what that shows me? That Krumrie is the problem, not the solution.

So, Krumrie is the problem in KC because his lines years ago for different teams werent very good? Really?

Who did he fail at doing his job with in KC is my question.
Jimmy Wilkerson was only coached by TK for 2006+2007 and its not his fault they had to dedicate the majority of the playing time at de to Jared Allen and their new first round DP LDE, Tamba Hali, those two were the producers. CP should have re-signed him and penciled him in as the starter after he traded JA.
Tanks improvement year to year here should be credited to his coaching.
Dorsey has been playing out of position since the day he got here, but look at the progress he made from last year to this one and then pat TK on the back and give him credit for it. He should have been a collosal bust as a 5-tec, on paper, I bet 90% of all bbs would have concluded that if polled on it.
You should see dramatic improvement in TJs play next year if my assumption is correct (this is of course if our, hopefuly new, dc doesnt want to bring in all his own assistants)

Shit lets look back at the job he did with one of the better players he was given in Buffalo and how he did without him, shall we?

Aaron Schobels sacks
2004 8
2005 12
2006 14 <-----this was his last year coached by TK
2007 6.5
2008 1
2009 7

Seems he fell of after TK left to me, whats it look like to you?

I honestly cant comment on the other prospects he was given there as I would be talking out of my arse and I try not to do that.

I would fairly say that there really aren't any players that he missed the boat on in KC, so far, as far as getting them to improve their play each year they were under his coaching, can you? (by you, I mean anybody on the forum, not trying to call you out, I value your opinion more than others here to be honest)

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Pittsburgh Steelers ARE the Pittsburgh Steelers for one reason and one reason alone:

THE DRAFT. PERIOD.

fyp

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

fyp

Uh, sorry, but you are WRONG.

[DeezNutz]

Coach Slap Dick is now being defended on this forum. .

Last year, he was working with nothing but first day talent on the D-line, and he managed to achieve records with this group.

This year, he has yet another 1st rounder, and we've consistently been getting gashed. Yes, the LBs and secondary have to shoulder responsibility, too, but to claim that we've seen jack shit out of Slap Dick is amazing.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Uh, sorry, but you are WRONG.

The team has consistently drafted well over the last 15-20 years and well before that. It is what allows them to allow FAs to always leave and they just insert the next guy in line that they drafted.

I guess I may have missed your point there. Im always game to learn a new trick, back your comment with something I can get behind. I love the Rooneys and know they are great owners but I guess I dont fully understand why you feel that way.

About every single difference maker they have was drafted by them, right or wrong?

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

I have one question......

When Vrabel went down and Studebaker stepped in.....and had a lights out ****ing game.......

Why the **** did Vrabel immediately go back to his starting job? He's old and broken down and he's not helping this team out physically. Let Studebaker step into the starting role and see if he can repeat his performance. Vrabel is nothing more and should be nothing more than a part-time player right now. The same thing goes for Mike Brown.

That's an excellent question. So is the question about why Richardson wasn't given a chance to play RT earlier. Jwhit or another reporter should ask it at the next press conference rather than dwell on stupid crap that Haley won't answer like "Does Matt Cassel have enough self awareness to criticize himself."

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And what would those reasons be?

And you can't say "rookie head coach that will learn" or "talent depleted roster".

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary.

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season.

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit.

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen.

7. Chris Chambers. Now we have a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

[PunkinDrublic]

Haley is not going to get fired. All we can do is hope he can take a step back in
the offseason and realize his approach has failed monumentally and make some
coaching changes starting with Clancy and his failed scheme. The dam broke last Sunday
after we were starting to really have our defense exposed against Buffalo.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Coach Slap Dick is now being defended on this forum. .

Last year, he was working with nothing but first day talent on the D-line, and he managed to achieve records with this group.

This year, he has yet another 1st rounder, and we've consistently been getting gashed. Yes, the LBs and secondary have to shoulder responsibility, too, but to claim that we've seen jack shit out of Slap Dick is amazing.

If Carl Peterson didnt trade Jared Allen (who had his most production under TK) or allow Wilkerson to leave, he might be our DC by now.

flame away, buddy.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

That's an excellent question. So is the question about why Richardson wasn't given a chance to play RT earlier. Jwhit or another reporter should ask it at the next press conference rather than dwell on stupid crap that Haley won't answer like "Does Matt Cassel have enough self awareness to criticize himself."

Studebaker found himself in the right place, at the right time. Now he's a hero? Come on guys. He has no pass rush moves yet. He gets pushed back at the LOS.

If he were starting, then people would find ways to bitch about him too. He didn't look any better out there than Vrabel, but at least Vrabel can read the "O"

Now, im excited about Studebaker, don't get me wrong. I have hopes for him and i do think he is a good young talent. But he has not been that great. And Richardson got destroyed at RT in the preseason. It was obvious he had a long ways to go.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by BossChief

If Carl Peterson didnt trade Jared Allen (who had his most production under TK) or allow Wilkerson to leave, he might be our DC by now.

flame away, buddy.

You really think Slap Dick "coached up" Jared Allen?

Tell me why this talented coach got so little out of so much last year. 4 day-one picks, and they couldn't stop the run or rush the passer. Please defend this.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary.

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season.

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit.

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen.

7. Chris Chambers. Now we a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

1. Um you DO realize that Flowers, Carr, Charles Studebaker, etc. were already on the squad, right?

2. Hali is NO surprise: He is what he's ALWAYS been: An average pass rusher and completely useless against the run.

3. Haley's a completely bumble**** when it comes to evaluating the offensive line. Rudy Niswanger? Are you ****ing kidding me? Wade Smith is 10x the center as Niswanger. Play Nsukwe out of position at Right Tackle was a good thing? Starting O'C over Richardson was a good thing? JFC.

4. Chris Chambers is 31 years old and he'll be 32 to start the season. Who knows if he'll chose to return but firstly, he's not a long term solution and secondly, the wheels could fall off at any second. Plus, he's got a serious domestic situation to deal with.

I don't see anything here that you've stated that makes me believe that Todd Haley is a competent coach worthy of returning.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

The team has consistently drafted well over the last 15-20 years and well before that. It is what allows them to allow FAs to always leave and they just insert the next guy in line that they drafted.

I guess I may have missed your point there. Im always game to learn a new trick, back your comment with something I can get behind. I love the Rooneys and know they are great owners but I guess I dont fully understand why you feel that way.

About every single difference maker they have was drafted by them, right or wrong?

JFC.

The "reason" that the Steelers are successful and have been successful for half a century is due to the ownership.

Don't you understand that?

They've had several GM's and only three coaches since the 70's. They're not successful because they've stuck with those coaches, they're successful because success starts from the top. The Rooneys have hired the right people for four decades.

That isn't an accident.