***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

2022 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

#stlcards on opening day:

Carlson 9
Goldschmidt 3
O’Neill 7
Arenado 5
Pujols DH
DeJong 6
Molina 2
Bader 8
Edman 4

Wainwright 1

— Jeff Jones (@jmjones) April 7, 2022

2022 Opening Day roster

Spoiler!

Pitchers: Adam Wainwright, Miles Mikolas, Steven Matz, Dakota Hudson.

Relievers: Jordan Hicks, Drew VerHagen, Jake Woodford, Giovanny Gallegos, Ryan Helsey, A. Pallante, Genesis Cabrera, TJ McFarland, Nick Wittgren, Kodi Whitley, Aaron Brooks.

Catchers: Yadier Molina, Andrew Knizner.

Infielders: Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Arenado, Tommy Edman, Paul DeJong, Albert Pujols, Edmundo Sosa

Outfielders: Tyler O’Neill, Harrison Bader, Dylan Carlson, Corey Dickerson, Lars Nootbaar.

On the injured list are Jack Flaherty and Alex Reyes

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

2021 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124
2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And man, I am TIRED of Cardinals fans online being worried about spending Bill Dewitt's money.

Cardinals payroll has gone DOWN since 2018 as revenues have continued to climb. DeWitt is sitting on 2 billion in franchise equity.

This is a team that should be sitting in the 6-8 range for overall payroll and not 12-15. By my math that is about $30-40 million in 'dry powder'.

If DeWitt has, behind the scenes, advised Mozeliak that his expenditures on washed up has-beens has not given him the confidence to expand payroll...well I guess he should probably fire John Mozeliak, but I digress. If that is the case, Soto is the kind of player you unquestionably and without hesitation expand payroll to secure.

Cardinals fans out there saying "we don't need Soto!" a) Are fools because EVERY team needs a HoF bat. B) Haven't been paying much attention to the OF production of this team this year. C) Need to stop worrying about BDWs pocketbook and start DEMANDING that he open it.

When you say dumb shit like "Spend Soto's money to build up the bullpen and starting rotation" you're giving him the opening to do exactly what he's doing. No, you don't spend Soto's money to build up the pitching staff. You spend Soto's money on Soto. Then you spend Bill DeWitt's money on the damn pitching staff.

And let him know that if he doesn't spend it on the team, he's going to be essentially spending it on empty seats as ticket revenues decline.

He HAS to be willing to give back to this ballclub and if he's not going to do it for the best young lefty since Ted !@#$ing Williams, he shouldn't own one of baseballs marquee franchises anymore.

I remember us having a top ten payroll in the Holliday era. But it seems like Dewitt got his two WS championships and seems content. Now we are middle of the pack salary wise when we are pulling in 3 million fans yearly. He needs to pay Soto and Mo needs to get off his ass and pull the damn trigger.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

So Bader and or O'Neill have no value to the Nationals? I'd rather have Carlson play CF and Soto in right.

You keep them where is Yepez or the next outfielder going to play?

Both of those guys only have 2 years of control so its highly unlikely either of them have interest to the Nationals. Also they aren't that good so while they have value, its minimal. The Nationals are after quality and years of control.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Both of those guys only have 2 years of control so its highly unlikely either of them have interest to the Nationals. Also they aren't that good so while they have value, its minimal. The Nationals are after quality and years of control.

I get it that we are only in the conversation for Soto because we have a player that has a potential MVP ceiling at some point in his career, Walker. That's 6 years of control. Not saying he's Soto or will ever be but the consensus in baseball, from my understanding is he is one of the best prospects right now.

Why does Carlson with 3 years of service left have so much more value than Bader/O'Neill with 2 years left?

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I get it that we are only in the conversation for Soto because we have a player that has a potential MVP ceiling at some point in his career, Walker. That's 6 years of control. Not saying he's Soto or will ever be but the consensus in baseball, from my understanding is he is one of the best prospects right now.

Why does Carlson with 3 years of service left have so much more value than Bader/O'Neill with 2 years left?

Carlson has 4 years of service left. He has only accrued just over 1 year of service at the start of this year.

It's simple math for why he is so much more valuable than someone with less control. For one he's just a better major league bet than those 2 and he's got more years of being paid less than his market value. Bader and O'neill don't even have half the trade value of Carlson.

2 players:

A) 2 WAR a year under control for 2 years making ~$15M over his final 2 years of arbitration.

B) 2 WAR a year under control for 4 years, on the same pay scale as player A, making ~$20M over his final 4 years of control.

Say you value WAR at the $6M DJ brought up earlier. Player A is going to be worth ~$24M, minus his $15M his surplus value is $9M. Player B is the exact same value per year but worth $48M, minus his $20M his surplus value is $28M.

Years of control is huge when it comes to a players worth.

EDIT: And Bader actually only has 1 more year of control so there's no ****ing shot they are interested in that. O'Neill is another 2022 season away from being a non-tender. He'll have 3 replacement level seasons after this year. You probably flip him the $5M or w/e he'll get in arb for next year and take a shot he rebounds, but if it's another injury plagued season with 0 impact on the field there's no shot he makes it to arb 3. Their trade values are probably not far off from jack and shit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

So Bader and or O'Neill have no value to the Nationals? I'd rather have Carlson play CF and Soto in right.

You keep them where is Yepez or the next outfielder going to play?

Who cares?

Yepez is a role player on a champion. The ‘next’ outfielder is years away if Walker is part of the deal.

We need to stop overvaluing ‘our’ guys. This team couldn’t score to save its life for weeks despite MVP play from 2 guys. Why? Because this outfield that ‘doesn’t need’ Juan Soto has been lousy. Because Yepez is a forgettable, defensively limited bench player who’s size rarely translates into game power - he’s Jose Martinez at his absolute peak. Gorman is a mistake hitter - execute and he’s out.

There are no ‘whatabouts’ here.

[ChiefsCountry]

DJ heard an interesting radio interview this afternoon on Springfield radio. Had a former MLB scout and summer league coach on - he said teams going all college route in the draft has to do with a) analytics - hs and juco guys don't have the computer numbers b) Minors being shrunk down to 4 teams essentially - they want more ready to go players.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by jd1020

You'd feel better when it works out as well for the Nationals as it did the Marlins. You dont win when trading the Cabrera's and Soto's of the game.

Always trade for a HOF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marco Polo]

At the game in Cincinnati now. Wainwright is cursed against the Reds.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

Always trade for a HOF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like a good plan and advice.

[BigRedChief]

Mets are out on the Soto sweepstakes?

MLB trade deadline: Mets acquire Daniel Vogelbach from Pirates in exchange for Colin Holderman

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Mets are out on the Soto sweepstakes?

MLB trade deadline: Mets acquire Daniel Vogelbach from Pirates in exchange for Colin Holderman

The Mets were never in the sweepstakes. Only way the Mets acquire Soto is if they are literally the only team bidding on him and the potential new owners of the Nationals had a gun to the current owners head.

It would be like the Cardinals trading Pujols to the Cubs 3 years before his deal was up. Thats Babe Ruth to the Yankees level shit.

[Marco Polo]

I’m cursed. 1-3 so far this season in games I’ve been to. Two at Wrigley, one at Fenway, and tonight in Cincinnati.

[jd1020]

Watch the Mariners swoop in and get Soto with a package starting with Marte and Kirby. They are all of a sudden in a playoff spot and have a no ****s given PoBO. Marte is one of the best prospects in the game and Kirby is going to probably be shut down soon as hes reaching his innings limit so he doesnt really figure to help much in the playoffs.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Watch the Mariners swoop in and get Soto with a package starting with Marte and Kirby. They are all of a sudden in a playoff spot and have a no ****s given PoBO. Marte is one of the best prospects in the game and Kirby is going to probably be shut down soon as hes reaching his innings limit so he doesnt really figure to help much in the playoffs.

Cardinals could/should beat that.

Walker is a better prospect than Marte by a fair amount (still don’t think the lists have given due weight to struggles from him or Luciano this year while slow-playing someone like Ezequiel Tovar - these guys aren’t above biases and echo chambers). Kirby keeps demonstrating that he needs more life on his fastball and for the love of all things holy he has GOT to expand his zone.

Guy has impeccable control and seems to be more concerned with not walking people than he is executing a quality pitch at times. If he’s at 3 balls, he’s going to pipe you one. First pitch is almost certainly a strike so ambush him.

He is in the zone so often that he makes ABs too easy. And he’s a hair older than most realize as well.

I do like him and think he has as high a floor as you’ll see among SPs. But I’m starting to wonder if that fastball, velocity be damned, may limit his ceiling.

[jd1020]

Is Marte struggling though? He's 20 in high-A with a 130 wRC+. His average is somewhat low, but hes only striking out at 21% and walking at 11%. Given hes only 20 I don't really see that as struggling.

Walker is certainly ranked higher on every board I've seen, but I also wonder when his 80 grade game and raw power is going to start showing up.