Gas on the Fire: Shutdown Corner Gives Chiefs "F" in FA.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by milkman

I think too many people place far too much blame on Bob Sutton for the collapse in the second half of the season, while also failing to recognize the talent that is already in place, and failing to recognize how much the glaring weakness at FS impacted that talent's ability to perform, as well as Sutton's ability to make adjustment's.

Flowers and Sean Smith, both are guys that are far better in coverage when lining up tight and playing physical man at the snap.

Neither are that competent in off coverage.

Marcus Cooper is just learning, but showed he can play physical man, as well.
He didn't work at playing in off coverage, but with practice might grow into that role as well.

that being the case, early in the season, this defense thrived playing physical man from the snap, but over the course of the first half, teams began to see the glaring weakness that Kendrick Lewis was.

This secondary didn't get exposed because the Chiefs played better QBs.
It got exposed because teams adjusted and game planned to attack that weakness.

Guys like (what his name?) Jeff Tuel and Case Keenum took advantage of it.
Sutton adjusted by backing Flowers, Smith and Cooper off the line, essentially playing their weakness to take the big plays away.

It didn't work.

We have a talented core on the defense, and a competent free safety, not a great one you, but a competent one, would have a huge impact on this defense.

I have no issue with not persuing DeSean Jackson.

My issue is failing to persue a FS in free agency.

Exactly this.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Here's the thing that REALLY bothers me about this offseason...in 2-3 years, the cap will be well above 150 million and by that time we will be past the usefulness of some of our key players that have showed loyalty to this organization.

Flowers
Charles
Hali
Bowe

This offseason was a HUGE missed opportunity for the organization to move forward and bolster the current roster to make a legit run at a title.

I don't want to hear a peep about how moves now (restructures, signings, etc) would hurt us in 2-3 years because its simply not true. Just those 4 are almost 40 million worth of cap space that will fall off during the same timeframe that the cap increases another 25 million.

IMO we should have converted Bowe, Berry and Hali's base salaries to signing bonuses to clear enough space to sign

Evan Deitrich Smith
Jarius Byrd (or TJ Ward)
Desean Jackson

That's not even 20 million worth of cap space needed to take on all 3 of those deals and with those 3, we could probably compete with almost any team in the NFL.

TJ Ward and Berry are basically the same guys.

And while Byrd would have been a nice addition, there is no way in hell that they were going to carry the two highest paid safeties in the NFL on one team. As Milk stated, they don't need the best free safety in the league back there, they just need someone better than Lewis was last year. Perhaps Abdullah is that guy. Perhaps Commings is that guy. But I know that it can't possibly get worse.

With Jackson, they really didn't seem too overly interested. And considering Reid's work with him in the past, if he didn't want him there had to have been a reason.

And it seems that they weren't interested in paying a guard 4 million per.

Either they have someone on roster who they feel is competent and ready for the jump to starting (most likely) or they have a plan in place with the upcoming draft (they'll draft a couple of OL guys regardless). Either way, I don't think that it's that big of a deal.

(Rokevious Watkins was recently (2012) a First Team All-SEC level player. Perhaps he's finally decided to put the work in. The guy has talent.)

I mean, we can all sit here and play GM, but these guys do this for a living and it looks like Reid and Dorsey kind of take this shit seriously.

We get all worked up over this free agency bullshit, but I'm not ready to go back to the Peterson/Vermeil years when they tried to piece the defense together with these type of guys. (Kendrick Bell anyone?)

I think that the team is going to be okay going forward.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Here's the thing that REALLY bothers me about this offseason...in 2-3 years, the cap will be well above 150 million and by that time we will be past the usefulness of some of our key players that have showed loyalty to this organization.

Flowers
Charles
Hali
Bowe

This offseason was a HUGE missed opportunity for the organization to move forward and bolster the current roster to make a legit run at a title.

I don't want to hear a peep about how moves now (restructures, signings, etc) would hurt us in 2-3 years because its simply not true. Just those 4 are almost 40 million worth of cap space that will fall off during the same timeframe that the cap increases another 25 million.

IMO we should have converted Bowe, Berry and Hali's base salaries to signing bonuses to clear enough space to sign

Evan Deitrich Smith
Jarius Byrd (or TJ Ward)
Desean Jackson

That's not even 20 million worth of cap space needed to take on all 3 of those deals and with those 3, we could probably compete with almost any team in the NFL.

The current roster isn't nearly as good as you are making them out to be. If we're serious about a Super Bowl run, then we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking 2 or 3 guys suddenly puts us in the same conversation as a seriously re-stacked Denver and New England team, let alone Seattle and San Fran. So to me, for as much as people talk about empty wins, if we spent on those 3 guys and we still aren't Super Bowl winners, then those were empty wins where we incurred a lot of back-end debt to subsidize it.

Our best chance at a run is 2015. And we can actually be on the same playing field as Denver or New England with two excellent drafts, by extending Houston, Berry, and Smith. So if our best shot at a run in 2015, then I'd rather spend the big free agent dollars when the money is actually available versus doing a bunch of gymnastics in 2014 mostly to free up money for a year 1 run where we are still big long shots to win it all.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The current roster isn't nearly as good as you are making them out to be. If we're serious about a Super Bowl run, then we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking 2 or 3 guys suddenly puts us in the same conversation as a seriously re-stacked Denver and New England team, let alone Seattle and San Fran. So to me, for as much as people talk about empty wins, if we spent on those 3 guys and we still aren't Super Bowl winners, then those were empty wins where we incurred a lot of back-end debt to subsidize it.

Our best chance at a run is 2015. And we can actually be on the same playing field as Denver or New England with two excellent drafts, by extending Houston, Berry, and Smith. So if our best shot at a run in 2015, then I'd rather spend the big free agent dollars when the money is actually available versus doing a bunch of gymnastics in 2014 mostly to free up money for a year 1 run where we are still big long shots to win it all.

Hopeless...How about the Chiefs signing key free agents AND drafting well???? That way they don't have to hit home runs on EVERY pick...Just amazes me how you refuse to see that...But thats the thing about beng a BB GM - there are no consequences for being as wrong as you are.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TEX

Hopeless...How about the Chiefs signing key free agents AND drafting well???? That way they don't have to hit home runs on EVERY pick...Just amazes me how you refuse to see that...But thats the thing about beng a BB GM - there are no consequences for being as wrong as you are.

Just amazes me how much you are banking on making a run in 2014.

We don't have to hit a home run with every pick. I am talking about waiting for money to naturally become available, and then spending money smartly once we have it. That will happen in 2015 and 2016. It's the same thing as asking if you want to buy something on loan where you pay the consequences later versus waiting until money becomes available before you start spending it. I don't think we should be so desperate to make that run this year that we start giving up picks and hurting our future cap value.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Good post.
At the same time, let's keep in mind that they outbid other teams for Reid and I'm assuming Dorsey. They even let them hire in consultants beyond a normal coaching staff like Childress. It's hard to say the Chiefs are cheap. Conservative, yes. Cheap? No.

Reid wanted Dorsey. Clark's hire was getting Reid, a guy who had been a head coach for over a decade and been to the playoffs several times. The definition of "low risk".

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Just amazes me how much you are banking on making a run in 2014.

We don't have to hit a home run with every pick. I am talking about waiting for money to naturally become available, and then spending money smartly once we have it. That will happen in 2015 and 2016. It's the same thing as asking if you want to buy something on loan where you pay the consequences later versus waiting until money becomes available before you start spending it. I don't think we should be so desperate to make that run this year that we start giving up picks and hurting our future cap value.

Most of us are amazed that you are banking on making a run in 2015 or 2016. People have only been doing that since this board started (and even before).

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Reid wanted Dorsey. Clark's hire was getting Reid, a guy who had been a head coach for over a decade and been to the playoffs several times. The definition of "low risk".

I've always been a little lukewarm about getting Reid. But again, safe? Yes. Cheap? Absolutely not. Owners are required to spend against a salary cap. They have no obligation to overpay coaches or front office. The Chiefs spared no expense to bring these guys in.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I've always been a little lukewarm about getting Reid. But again, safe? Yes. Cheap? Absolutely not. Owners are required to spend against a salary cap. They have no obligation to overpay coaches or front office. The Chiefs spared no expense to bring these guys in.

He (and his dad) have always spent in the front office. Pioli was the highest-paid GM in the league at one point. And Dick Vermeil had the largest coaching staff in the league at one point, too.

Again, that's more manageable. You have much more control over how much money you pay (and lose) with a coach because none of their contract is guaranteed. They don't get signing bonuses.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Most of us are amazed that you are banking on making a run in 2015 or 2016. People have only been doing that since this board started (and even before).

People have also been banking on 2 or 3 free agents magically fixing a team. That hasn't worked either.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He (and his dad) have always spent in the front office. Pioli was the highest-paid GM in the league at one point. And Dick Vermeil had the largest coaching staff in the league at one point, too.

Again, that's more manageable. You have much more control over how much money you pay (and lose) with a coach because none of their contract is guaranteed. They don't get signing bonuses.

Now, in terms of Pioli, I think he convinced Hunt to be cheap. So I get the argument there. Hunt has a tendency to buy in way too much into what the GM is selling. But I've seen nothing from the Dorsey era that suggests they're cheap. They seem to be spending a lot on Marketing, on front office, and will probably have back-to-back-to-back seasons against the salary cap. Again, I agree with you that they haven't spent it wisely and spend it pretty conservatively, but that's a different claim that calling the team cheap.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

People have also been banking on 2 or 3 free agents magically fixing a team. That hasn't worked either.

Dude, when a team trades two first-round picks for a 28-year old QB, they set an expectation.

When they go 11-5 and come within minutes of winning their first playoff game in 20 years, those expectations get reinforced 10-fold.

The Chiefs put themselves in this situation.

[stonedstooge]

Funny that the league a few short years ago had to initiate a Salary Floor because 2 named teams, the Cheaps and the Bucs, were not spending NFL provided monies at a minimal rate, but now CHunt's not cheap? Amazing turnaround

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by stonedstooge

Funny that the league a few short years ago had to initiate a Salary Floor because 2 named teams, the Cheaps and the Bucs, were not spending NFL provided monies at a minimal rate, but now CHunt's not cheap? Amazing turnaround

And now that the NFL has a floor and has strict rules about how money counts against the cap, it doesn't make sense to blame any current problems on being cheap.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Dude, when a team trades two first-round picks for a 28-year old QB, they set an expectation.

When they go 11-5 and come within minutes of winning their first playoff game in 20 years, those expectations get reinforced 10-fold.

The Chiefs put themselves in this situation.

This is the same group that made it known repeatedly that this team went 2-5 down the final stretch of the season and wasn't in the same league as Denver.

Also the same group that claims that if we trade for Alex Smith, then go idle for a season, then we basically admit that in 2013 we were trying to put butts in seats.

If we are spending money in 2014 on things that probably don't make us Super Bowl competitive, then I feel the same way about this strategy. It's a strategy that might help us win a playoff game and maybe that's a win it itself, but it's ultimately to put butts in seats. That is as safe a strategy as you're going to find, if we're on the subject of "safe."