The MLB lockout thread

[Deberg_1990]

Discussssss

To our Fans:

I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together.

That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2.

I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions.

When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history.

We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams.

We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more.

To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that.

Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table.
Manfred

Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni

— MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021

Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W

— MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Red Dawg

OMG you idiot. Owners own in all billion dollar businesses. Only in sports do the workers demand such high salaries. If you become a billionaire does that mean you pay massive millions to every employee? **** no. But without the workers there would be no product? So ****ing what? There are thousands of players that would play for a lot less. Players are greedy ****s with big egos and they make a shit ton, even the bad ones. The only reason the season is not starting is players greed.

There's about 1200 people in the world that can fill the spots in the MLB. Anyone can work an office job.

I was gonna ask if you were really this ****ing stupid, but I already know the answer.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

We still have Ted Williams today in baseball.

Juan Soto ain't letting the lockout stop him from playing ball pic.twitter.com/6DfN9k1LRJ

— Talkin’ Baseball (@TalkinBaseball_) March 2, 2022

True dat.

Ted Williams or Juan Soto.

Damn I love watching that guy hit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

If I was a Marlins fan, I wouldn't want them to spend it on a second-tier free agent anyway.

The Marlins should be saving that type of contract to extend Trevor Rogers or Pablo Lopez or Sixto Sanchez or Eury Perez. They already gave five years, $56 million to Sandy Alcantara last winter.

I actually don't have a problem with a rebuilding franchise saving its dollars, as long as it aggressively extends its homegrown talent when the time comes.

And I spoke to that as a by-product of the floor as well. It would alleviate some of the service time manipulation and get young players paid sooner because teams would use the floor to extend their own guys more often than they'd dip into an inflate FA pool.

It solves SO many problems.

And the players just won't see the forest for the trees.

This is a player issue. They're getting in their own way.

[Bronco_buster2]

For the 2021 year, the MLB base salary was $570,000, the NFL was $660,000 and the NBA was $925,000.

These are salaries are prorated. So if a player gets to the major league level, they don't make $570,000. They make that salary divided by the amount of days they are at the MLB level.

Just two years ago, 398 MLB players out of 1267 in the MLBPA earned at least $1Million. That's 31%. The players representing the player's union in negotiations are all living on very healthy contracts. They aren't negotiation their own contracts though, they are negotiating more topics than most of us have clue about.

The narrative that all players are greedy scum bags isn't true. They are physically gifted far more than you and I, and bring their owners millions of dollars with their talents.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Bronco_buster2

For the 2021 year, the MLB base salary was $570,000, the NFL was $660,000 and the NBA was $925,000.

These are salaries are prorated. So if a player gets to the major league level, they don't make $570,000. They make that salary divided by the amount of days they are at the MLB level.

Just two years ago, 398 MLB players out of 1267 in the MLBPA earned at least $1Million. That's 31%. The players representing the player's union in negotiations are all living on very healthy contracts. They aren't negotiation their own contracts though, they are negotiating more topics than most of us have clue about.

The narrative that all players are greedy scum bags isn't true. They are physically gifted far more than you and I, and bring their owners millions of dollars with their talents.

Few people, if anybody at all, are arguing against the idea of players near the bottom of the scales getting paid more or sooner.

The dispute is whether or not anything the MLBPA is pushing for or digging their heels in on would have a meaningful impact on that.

These middle relievers that spend their early/mid 20s working through the ranks, get called up at 26 and then ride the AAA shuttle up and down through their 3 options seasons so they accumulate maybe a year total on a major league roster - boy that's tough. Those guys will be 29 years old, still 5 year removed from being MLB free agents and with the way bullpens are managed, they've probably burned hot and bright and will be shot by the time they're 2nd year arb eligible at 32 yrs old.

Granted, they'll have made a couple million by then so it's not nothing, but it does seem like something can/should be done to help later arriving prospects who teams are going to ride until they cost real money and then replace.

But that's just not where the majority of the effort seems to be going right now.

[Bronco_buster2]

In what ways do you feel the MLBPA should be pushing more on that topic? I'm not using a sarcastic voice when I ask this, I'm genuinely curious of your thoughts.

Would the increased minimum salary proposal address it? Or the bonus pool for pre-arb players address it? And weren't both areas something the union was working to address?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Bronco_buster2

In what ways do you feel the MLBPA should be pushing more on that topic? I'm not using a sarcastic voice when I ask this, I'm genuinely curious of your thoughts.

Would the increased minimum salary proposal address it? Or the bonus pool for pre-arb players address it? And weren't both areas something the union was working to address?

I think the players offering to raise the pre-arb bonus pool from $10 million to $100 million (down from $105 million) isn't any sort of 'offer' at all. That's an invitation to go **** yourself. Get serious about that conversation.

And at last check, the owners had accepted the minimum salary proposal.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by Red Dawg

Everyone go tell your boss that you want what these greedy ****ing players want and see what happens.

Well they aren't same for one but you are too ****ing stupid to realize that. You are just labor. You are not the cost of goods and labor combined like baseball players are.

Labor costs in normal business is 25%
Cost of Goods in normal business is about 30%.

Ballplayers essentially should equal 55% of the revenue expenses but keep being a jackass.

[Red Dawg]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

There's about 1200 people in the world that can fill the spots in the MLB. Anyone can work an office job.

I was gonna ask if you were really this ****ing stupid, but I already know the answer.

Only 1,200 people in the world can play baseball? Every player in AAA can fill a spot and would for a shit ton less. I am only pointing out the fact that players are greedy ****s and are always trying to get more more more money. There is no gun to their head to play. They don't like the deal then quit. Just like NFL players crying about their battered up bodies. You can quit, you don't have to play.

If you think the current players are not replaceable then your wrong. Everyone is replaceable in any job. Product may not be great for a few years but they all can be replaced.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Red Dawg

Only 1,200 people in the world can play baseball? Every player in AAA can fill a spot and would for a shit ton less. I am only pointing out the fact that players are greedy ****s and are always trying to get more more more money. There is no gun to their head to play. They don't like the deal then quit. Just like NFL players crying about their battered up bodies. You can quit, you don't have to play.

If you think the current players are not replaceable then your wrong. Everyone is replaceable in any job. Product may not be great for a few years but they all can be replaced.

Ever watch college baseball? I have season tickets to Mizzou.

And let me tell you, you might as well be watching little league. The gap between excellent college teams and bad MLB teams is absolutely immense.

No, these guys are nothing resembling replaceable if you expect the sport to continue. The quality of play would be disastrous.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Red Dawg

Only 1,200 people in the world can play baseball? Every player in AAA can fill a spot and would for a shit ton less. I am only pointing out the fact that players are greedy ****s and are always trying to get more more more money. There is no gun to their head to play. They don't like the deal then quit. Just like NFL players crying about their battered up bodies. You can quit, you don't have to play.

If you think the current players are not replaceable then your wrong. Everyone is replaceable in any job. Product may not be great for a few years but they all can be replaced.

Only an idiot defends the owners and the billions that they’re making each year.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Ever watch college baseball? I have season tickets to Mizzou.

And let me tell you, you might as well be watching little league. The gap between excellent college teams and bad MLB teams is absolutely immense.

No, these guys are nothing resembling replaceable if you expect the sport to continue. The quality of play would be disastrous.

And minor league baseball is a step above that and it's not that good. That's why they have to market them as events with the silly promos and food. The product is bad.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

And minor league baseball is a step above that and it's not that good. That's why they have to market them as events with the silly promos and food. The product is bad.

I love college baseball because you can literally sit at the fence and talk to the guys as they're in the on-deck circle. It's amazingly family friendly. And really, high level college ball (SEC caliber play) is probably akin to A+ or maybe some pretty shitty AA teams. It's a lot of fun.

And as part of that you get to sit behind home plate and watch this stuff at field level.

And I have played a lot of ball in my time but let me tell you, TV makes baseball look SIGNIFICANTLY easier than it is. You get yourself down at field level and watch it, suddenly you realize just how hard the game is and the insane amount of skill it requires to make it look as easy at it is.

Honestly, I don't feel like any of us can truly put ourselves in the shoes of these guys. I'm good at my job but I ain't MLB baseball player good at my job. These guys are just crazy good.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Okay. So you made up your mind on Day 1 and have ignored anything that didn’t come from an agent or MLBPA mouthpiece since.

Got it.

Regardless of what any agents or MLBPA mouthpieces may say about anything, the owners' strategy with regard to these negotiations has been obvious from day 1. Delay, delay, delay. They never had any intention of starting the season on time and there's plenty of evidence to indicate that much.

[wazu]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Ever watch college baseball? I have season tickets to Mizzou.

And let me tell you, you might as well be watching little league. The gap between excellent college teams and bad MLB teams is absolutely immense.

No, these guys are nothing resembling replaceable if you expect the sport to continue. The quality of play would be disastrous.

Only for a little while. I'll live with it if it results in a level playing field across MLB. Shut it down for 5 years if that's what it takes.