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Old 02-26-2020, 10:28 PM  
JakeF JakeF is offline
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***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

A couple of reminders...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartgod View Post
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Last edited by Bearcat; 03-25-2020 at 08:56 AM.. Reason: adding spoiler tag
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Old 08-04-2021, 05:03 AM   #54031
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latest from Ontario.

Ontario students returning to schools next month will be able to play on sports teams, use instruments in music class, go on field trips and ditch masks outdoors, even if distance can’t be maintained.


The latest provincial data show 99.5 per cent of all COVID-19 ICU admissions from mid-June to mid-July were in unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people, and nearly 96 per cent of related deaths were in the same group.

https://www.nugget.ca/news/extracurr...-school-plan-3
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Old 08-04-2021, 05:06 AM   #54032
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Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar View Post
Speaking of misinformation, one thing that you never hear discussed anymore is the success rate of HCQ and zinc. There was an abundance of anecdotal evidence last year that it was a wildly successful treatment. And recently a study emerged which showed that it was greatly effective even in severely ill patients, dramatically improving chances of survival. There were docs in FL last year who reported a near 100% success rate when treating patients before it was severe. Elderly and obese people were getting up and walking out of the hospital in short order.

But, of course, the “experts,” including Fauci and the FDA strongly advised against its use, saying that the data showed an obvious lack of efficacy. They even tried to argue that it was dangerous. A common drug that’s been FDA approved and safely used for 65 years. Based solely upon a study which was later exposed as completely fraudulent. Nevertheless, they caused it to be banned in many states.

Obviously, it had nothing to do with the fact that a full course of HCQ and zinc costs a few bucks while the vaccines have minted 9 new billionaires.
A post about misinformation full of misinformation, cool.
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Old 08-04-2021, 05:55 AM   #54033
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Originally Posted by Monticore View Post
latest from Ontario.

Ontario students returning to schools next month will be able to play on sports teams, use instruments in music class, go on field trips and ditch masks outdoors, even if distance can’t be maintained.


The latest provincial data show 99.5 per cent of all COVID-19 ICU admissions from mid-June to mid-July were in unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people, and nearly 96 per cent of related deaths were in the same group.

https://www.nugget.ca/news/extracurr...-school-plan-3
I'm happy to hear that for the kids sake.
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Old 08-04-2021, 05:55 AM   #54034
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Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar View Post
Speaking of misinformation, one thing that you never hear discussed anymore is the success rate of HCQ and zinc. There was an abundance of anecdotal evidence last year that it was a wildly successful treatment. And recently a study emerged which showed that it was greatly effective even in severely ill patients, dramatically improving chances of survival. There were docs in FL last year who reported a near 100% success rate when treating patients before it was severe. Elderly and obese people were getting up and walking out of the hospital in short order.

But, of course, the “experts,” including Fauci and the FDA strongly advised against its use, saying that the data showed an obvious lack of efficacy. They even tried to argue that it was dangerous. A common drug that’s been FDA approved and safely used for 65 years. Based solely upon a study which was later exposed as completely fraudulent. Nevertheless, they caused it to be banned in many states.

Obviously, it had nothing to do with the fact that a full course of HCQ and zinc costs a few bucks while the vaccines have minted 9 new billionaires.
Oh God...
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Old 08-04-2021, 07:43 AM   #54035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar View Post
Speaking of misinformation, one thing that you never hear discussed anymore is the success rate of HCQ and zinc. There was an abundance of anecdotal evidence last year that it was a wildly successful treatment. And recently a study emerged which showed that it was greatly effective even in severely ill patients, dramatically improving chances of survival. There were docs in FL last year who reported a near 100% success rate when treating patients before it was severe. Elderly and obese people were getting up and walking out of the hospital in short order.

But, of course, the “experts,” including Fauci and the FDA strongly advised against its use, saying that the data showed an obvious lack of efficacy. They even tried to argue that it was dangerous. A common drug that’s been FDA approved and safely used for 65 years. Based solely upon a study which was later exposed as completely fraudulent. Nevertheless, they caused it to be banned in many states.

Obviously, it had nothing to do with the fact that a full course of HCQ and zinc costs a few bucks while the vaccines have minted 9 new billionaires.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.
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Old 08-04-2021, 08:31 AM   #54036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.
I think this is a good take.
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Old 08-04-2021, 08:31 AM   #54037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.
They don't seem to have the same focus on HCQ side effects as they do for vaccines


HCQ Side Effects
Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur:

Incidence not known
Anxiety
black, tarry stools
bleeding gums
blindness
blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
blood in the urine or stools
blurred vision or other vision changes
change in how colors look
chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
chills
cold sweats
confusion
cough or hoarseness
dark urine
decreased urination
defective color vision
diarrhea
difficulty seeing at night
dilated neck veins
dizziness or fainting
fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
fever
headache
inability to move the eyes
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
increased hunger
joint or muscle pain
large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of hearing
lower back or side pain
nervousness
nightmares
noisy breathing
painful or difficult urination
pale skin
palpitations
pinpoint red spots on the skin
red irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
seizures
severe mood or mental changes
shakiness
slurred speech
sore throat
sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sticking out of the tongue
stomach pain
swelling of the eye
swelling of the face, fingers, feet, or lower legs
swollen or painful glands
trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unusual behavior
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual facial expressions
unusual tiredness or weakness
weight gain
yellow eyes or skin
Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur:


Incidence not known
Continuing ringing or buzzing or other unexplained noise in the ears
darkening of the skin
feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
hair loss or thinning of the hair
increased sensitivity of the skin to sunlight
irritability
loss of appetite
nausea
redness or other discoloration of the skin
sensation of spinning
severe sunburn
shakiness and unsteady walk
uncontrolled eye movements
unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination
vomiting
weight loss
Other side effects not listed may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your healthcare professional.
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Old 08-04-2021, 08:35 AM   #54038
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
By hook or by crook, the covid pandemic is not permanent. That’s one reason why I wouldn’t support government mandated vaccines, assuming that’s the discussion. Don’t care much about businesses doing it though, because they can as far as I can tell and also again them actually keeping the policy and enforcing it long term is not something that will last. So people who don’t want the vaccine can either go elsewhere, get a fake card, or just sit at home and wait it out.
That's downright rational.

I would lean towards business versus government, except not all businesses would do the same things and I'm not sure it would help the main goal.
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:19 AM   #54039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.
When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. HCQ channels the zinc into the cells so that it can block replication. This is the treatment that doctors in FL and various places were having wild success with last year.

It's a little fishy that Fauci chose to base his assessment of "a clear lack of efficacy" (and even calling it dangerous) on the one study that was completely fraudulent. Any professional who isn't incompetent could have glanced at that study and found a million red flags. I don't think that Fauci's incompetent. Do you?

Even when The Lancet was forced to retract that bogus study, Fauci and company only doubled down on their aggressive attack on the treatment. Is there any logical reason that a drug that's been safely and commonly used for 65 years should be banned? The worst thing that you could rationally say about it is that it may only be mildly effective.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...mes/ar-AAKSGnq

This is a recent study which shows that HCQ/zinc increased the survival rate by 200% in severely ill patients.
Which is consistent with the anecdotal evidence from last year.

I know it may seem like I'm the one who isn't being objective. I see the opposite. I see people who want to talk themselves into believing the narrative that seems less "crazy" and more commonly accepted/mainstream, and to do so they ignore red flags and inconsistencies.

Frankly, I don't know why everybody's first instinct is to roll their eyes when someone accuses the least-trusted industry in America of greed. They should be rolling their eyes at the suggestion that the industry cares more about the health of the population than earning billions.

Last edited by RaidersOftheCellar; 08-04-2021 at 03:07 PM..
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:41 AM
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:44 AM   #54040
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@ABC: JUST IN: Nearly 72,000 children in the U.S. tested positive for COVID-19 last week—a massive jump from the approximately 39,000 cases among kids one week earlier. https://abcn.ws/3jndNzc
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:04 AM   #54041
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@ABC: JUST IN: Nearly 72,000 children in the U.S. tested positive for COVID-19 last week—a massive jump from the approximately 39,000 cases among kids one week earlier. https://abcn.ws/3jndNzc
Alright
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:06 AM   #54042
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Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar View Post
When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. Zinc channels the HCQ into the cells so that it can block replication. This is the treatment that doctors in FL and various places were having wild success with last year.

It's a little fishy that Fauci chose to base his assessment of "a clear lack of efficacy" (and even calling it dangerous) on the one study that was completely fraudulent. Any professional who isn't incompetent could have glanced at that study and found a million red flags. I don't think that Fauci's incompetent. Do you?

Even when The Lancet was forced to retract that bogus study, Fauci and company only doubled down on their aggressive attack on the treatment. Is there any logical reason that a drug that's been safely and commonly used for 65 years should be banned? The worst thing that you could rationally say about it is that it may only be mildly effective.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...mes/ar-AAKSGnq

This is a recent study which shows that HCQ/zinc increased the survival rate by 200% in severely ill patients.
Which is consistent with the anecdotal evidence from last year.

I know it may seem like I'm the one who isn't being objective. I see the opposite. I see people who want to talk themselves into believing the narrative that seems less "crazy" and more commonly accepted/mainstream, and to do so they ignore red flags and inconsistencies.

Frankly, I don't know why everybody's first instinct is to roll their eyes when someone accuses the least-trusted industry in America of greed. They should be rolling their eyes at the suggestion that the industry cares more about the health of the population than earning billions.
I agree we should only trust the industries that make inferior products and are not able to generate any income.

Unless you plan to produce your own medications/vaccines you are going to have to trust somebody now i know big pharma has it's issues but I would trust their product over their Haitian competitor , well depending on who has the best tweets.
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:11 AM   #54043
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Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar View Post
When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. Zinc channels the HCQ into the cells so that it can block replication.
Channels the HCQ? Sorry, but that's just BS.

Your link is an observation study looking at only 255 cases. It's not peer reviewed. Take a look at the meta studies I linked in this post: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...ostcount=54030

There is ample evidence showing that HCQ isn't really that effective for covid. In some cases it even increased mortality. It's been discussed for over a year.
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:19 AM   #54044
Monticore Monticore is offline
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non american treatment guidines


About treatments for COVID-19
Several different types of treatments for COVID-19 have been developed. Examples include drugs that reduce or stop the virus from multiplying in human cells and drugs that treat the symptoms of COVID-19.

In Canada, Health Canada has approved the following treatments:

Remdesivir
Bamlanivimab
Casirivimab and imdevimab
Sotrovimab

Authorized drugs
Among hospitalized patients who have COVID-19 and require supplemental oxygen or mechanical ventilation, clinicians should strongly consider:

dexamethasone 6 mg IV for 10 days (or until discharge if earlier) or equivalent glucocorticoid dose

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...reatments.html


haven't read through the whole thing but but no mention of HCQ
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:31 AM   #54045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar View Post
When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. Zinc channels the HCQ into the cells so that it can block replication. This is the treatment that doctors in FL and various places were having wild success with last year.

It's a little fishy that Fauci chose to base his assessment of "a clear lack of efficacy" (and even calling it dangerous) on the one study that was completely fraudulent. Any professional who isn't incompetent could have glanced at that study and found a million red flags. I don't think that Fauci's incompetent. Do you?

Even when The Lancet was forced to retract that bogus study, Fauci and company only doubled down on their aggressive attack on the treatment. Is there any logical reason that a drug that's been safely and commonly used for 65 years should be banned? The worst thing that you could rationally say about it is that it may only be mildly effective.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...mes/ar-AAKSGnq

This is a recent study which shows that HCQ/zinc increased the survival rate by 200% in severely ill patients.
Which is consistent with the anecdotal evidence from last year.

I know it may seem like I'm the one who isn't being objective. I see the opposite. I see people who want to talk themselves into believing the narrative that seems less "crazy" and more commonly accepted/mainstream, and to do so they ignore red flags and inconsistencies.

Frankly, I don't know why everybody's first instinct is to roll their eyes when someone accuses the least-trusted industry in America of greed. They should be rolling their eyes at the suggestion that the industry cares more about the health of the population than earning billions.
And this is why the conversation always derails. You're not looking to learn. You're looking to defend a position that you don't even understand. It just becomes a waste of everyone's time.
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