***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[Monticore]

latest from Ontario.

Ontario students returning to schools next month will be able to play on sports teams, use instruments in music class, go on field trips and ditch masks outdoors, even if distance can’t be maintained.


The latest provincial data show 99.5 per cent of all COVID-19 ICU admissions from mid-June to mid-July were in unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people, and nearly 96 per cent of related deaths were in the same group.

https://www.nugget.ca/news/extracurr...-school-plan-3

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Speaking of misinformation, one thing that you never hear discussed anymore is the success rate of HCQ and zinc. There was an abundance of anecdotal evidence last year that it was a wildly successful treatment. And recently a study emerged which showed that it was greatly effective even in severely ill patients, dramatically improving chances of survival. There were docs in FL last year who reported a near 100% success rate when treating patients before it was severe. Elderly and obese people were getting up and walking out of the hospital in short order.

But, of course, the “experts,” including Fauci and the FDA strongly advised against its use, saying that the data showed an obvious lack of efficacy. They even tried to argue that it was dangerous. A common drug that’s been FDA approved and safely used for 65 years. Based solely upon a study which was later exposed as completely fraudulent. Nevertheless, they caused it to be banned in many states.

Obviously, it had nothing to do with the fact that a full course of HCQ and zinc costs a few bucks while the vaccines have minted 9 new billionaires.

A post about misinformation full of misinformation, cool.

[TLO]

Originally Posted by Monticore

latest from Ontario.

Ontario students returning to schools next month will be able to play on sports teams, use instruments in music class, go on field trips and ditch masks outdoors, even if distance can’t be maintained.


The latest provincial data show 99.5 per cent of all COVID-19 ICU admissions from mid-June to mid-July were in unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people, and nearly 96 per cent of related deaths were in the same group.

https://www.nugget.ca/news/extracurr...-school-plan-3

I'm happy to hear that for the kids sake.

[TLO]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Speaking of misinformation, one thing that you never hear discussed anymore is the success rate of HCQ and zinc. There was an abundance of anecdotal evidence last year that it was a wildly successful treatment. And recently a study emerged which showed that it was greatly effective even in severely ill patients, dramatically improving chances of survival. There were docs in FL last year who reported a near 100% success rate when treating patients before it was severe. Elderly and obese people were getting up and walking out of the hospital in short order.

But, of course, the “experts,” including Fauci and the FDA strongly advised against its use, saying that the data showed an obvious lack of efficacy. They even tried to argue that it was dangerous. A common drug that’s been FDA approved and safely used for 65 years. Based solely upon a study which was later exposed as completely fraudulent. Nevertheless, they caused it to be banned in many states.

Obviously, it had nothing to do with the fact that a full course of HCQ and zinc costs a few bucks while the vaccines have minted 9 new billionaires.

Oh God...

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Speaking of misinformation, one thing that you never hear discussed anymore is the success rate of HCQ and zinc. There was an abundance of anecdotal evidence last year that it was a wildly successful treatment. And recently a study emerged which showed that it was greatly effective even in severely ill patients, dramatically improving chances of survival. There were docs in FL last year who reported a near 100% success rate when treating patients before it was severe. Elderly and obese people were getting up and walking out of the hospital in short order.

But, of course, the “experts,” including Fauci and the FDA strongly advised against its use, saying that the data showed an obvious lack of efficacy. They even tried to argue that it was dangerous. A common drug that’s been FDA approved and safely used for 65 years. Based solely upon a study which was later exposed as completely fraudulent. Nevertheless, they caused it to be banned in many states.

Obviously, it had nothing to do with the fact that a full course of HCQ and zinc costs a few bucks while the vaccines have minted 9 new billionaires.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.

[carlos3652]

Originally Posted by DaFace

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.

I think this is a good take.

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by DaFace

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.

They don't seem to have the same focus on HCQ side effects as they do for vaccines


HCQ Side Effects
Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur:

Incidence not known
Anxiety
black, tarry stools
bleeding gums
blindness
blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
blood in the urine or stools
blurred vision or other vision changes
change in how colors look
chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
chills
cold sweats
confusion
cough or hoarseness
dark urine
decreased urination
defective color vision
diarrhea
difficulty seeing at night
dilated neck veins
dizziness or fainting
fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
feeling that others can hear your thoughts
feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
fever
headache
inability to move the eyes
increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
increased hunger
joint or muscle pain
large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of hearing
lower back or side pain
nervousness
nightmares
noisy breathing
painful or difficult urination
pale skin
palpitations
pinpoint red spots on the skin
red irritated eyes
red skin lesions, often with a purple center
seizures
severe mood or mental changes
shakiness
slurred speech
sore throat
sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
sticking out of the tongue
stomach pain
swelling of the eye
swelling of the face, fingers, feet, or lower legs
swollen or painful glands
trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
unusual behavior
unusual bleeding or bruising
unusual facial expressions
unusual tiredness or weakness
weight gain
yellow eyes or skin
Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur:


Incidence not known
Continuing ringing or buzzing or other unexplained noise in the ears
darkening of the skin
feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
hair loss or thinning of the hair
increased sensitivity of the skin to sunlight
irritability
loss of appetite
nausea
redness or other discoloration of the skin
sensation of spinning
severe sunburn
shakiness and unsteady walk
uncontrolled eye movements
unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination
vomiting
weight loss
Other side effects not listed may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your healthcare professional.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

By hook or by crook, the covid pandemic is not permanent. That’s one reason why I wouldn’t support government mandated vaccines, assuming that’s the discussion. Don’t care much about businesses doing it though, because they can as far as I can tell and also again them actually keeping the policy and enforcing it long term is not something that will last. So people who don’t want the vaccine can either go elsewhere, get a fake card, or just sit at home and wait it out.

That's downright rational.

I would lean towards business versus government, except not all businesses would do the same things and I'm not sure it would help the main goal.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by DaFace

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're being sincere about this.

The problem with all of this is that NONE OF IT REALLY MATTERS compared to getting the vaccine. The evidence has generally suggested that HCQ has no impact, though there have been SOME studies that show a modest impact. Similar for Zinc. So is it possible that those might help someone who has COVID? It's possible you could find a minor impact, yes. But not much.

Despite the conspiracy theories, though, the reason it's not getting talked about is that there are TONS of things that might help...a little. Being put on a ventilator in a hospital helps...a little. There are other vitamins like C and D that might help...a little. There are literally hundreds of drugs that people have studied that might help...a little.

But do you know why no one is talking about all of those other treatments? It's because people didn't latch on to them like they were going to be some sort of miracle cure and suddenly start putting their fingers in their ears about literally ANYTHING ELSE that would help.

For the sake of argument, though, let's give HCQ the benefit of the doubt and assume it helps the chances of survival by 5%. (That's almost certainly more than it actually helps and, again, most studies have concluded it doesn't do anything at all.) So hooray, it helps!

Meanwhile, we have vaccines available which help by at least 85%, and in most cases it's more like 90-95%, yet you're skeptical of that.

So put yourselves in the shoes of those of us who try to be objective about this. We have vaccines that are AT LEAST 15-20 times as effective at keeping people alive compared to HCQ, yet 1.5 YEARS into this thing people keep bring up ONE of hundreds of treatments that have been studied, and one that has been shown to be only mildly effective at all.

If you're still confused about why no one is talking about it, I would suggest that perhaps your own understanding of the situation is the problem here, not everyone else who has moved on to talking about things that actually make a difference.

When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. HCQ channels the zinc into the cells so that it can block replication. This is the treatment that doctors in FL and various places were having wild success with last year.

It's a little fishy that Fauci chose to base his assessment of "a clear lack of efficacy" (and even calling it dangerous) on the one study that was completely fraudulent. Any professional who isn't incompetent could have glanced at that study and found a million red flags. I don't think that Fauci's incompetent. Do you?

Even when The Lancet was forced to retract that bogus study, Fauci and company only doubled down on their aggressive attack on the treatment. Is there any logical reason that a drug that's been safely and commonly used for 65 years should be banned? The worst thing that you could rationally say about it is that it may only be mildly effective.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...mes/ar-AAKSGnq

This is a recent study which shows that HCQ/zinc increased the survival rate by 200% in severely ill patients.
Which is consistent with the anecdotal evidence from last year.

I know it may seem like I'm the one who isn't being objective. I see the opposite. I see people who want to talk themselves into believing the narrative that seems less "crazy" and more commonly accepted/mainstream, and to do so they ignore red flags and inconsistencies.

Frankly, I don't know why everybody's first instinct is to roll their eyes when someone accuses the least-trusted industry in America of greed. They should be rolling their eyes at the suggestion that the industry cares more about the health of the population than earning billions.

[Sure-Oz]

@ABC: JUST IN: Nearly 72,000 children in the U.S. tested positive for COVID-19 last week—a massive jump from the approximately 39,000 cases among kids one week earlier. https://abcn.ws/3jndNzc

[TLO]

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

@ABC: JUST IN: Nearly 72,000 children in the U.S. tested positive for COVID-19 last week—a massive jump from the approximately 39,000 cases among kids one week earlier. https://abcn.ws/3jndNzc

Alright

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. Zinc channels the HCQ into the cells so that it can block replication. This is the treatment that doctors in FL and various places were having wild success with last year.

It's a little fishy that Fauci chose to base his assessment of "a clear lack of efficacy" (and even calling it dangerous) on the one study that was completely fraudulent. Any professional who isn't incompetent could have glanced at that study and found a million red flags. I don't think that Fauci's incompetent. Do you?

Even when The Lancet was forced to retract that bogus study, Fauci and company only doubled down on their aggressive attack on the treatment. Is there any logical reason that a drug that's been safely and commonly used for 65 years should be banned? The worst thing that you could rationally say about it is that it may only be mildly effective.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...mes/ar-AAKSGnq

This is a recent study which shows that HCQ/zinc increased the survival rate by 200% in severely ill patients.
Which is consistent with the anecdotal evidence from last year.

I know it may seem like I'm the one who isn't being objective. I see the opposite. I see people who want to talk themselves into believing the narrative that seems less "crazy" and more commonly accepted/mainstream, and to do so they ignore red flags and inconsistencies.

Frankly, I don't know why everybody's first instinct is to roll their eyes when someone accuses the least-trusted industry in America of greed. They should be rolling their eyes at the suggestion that the industry cares more about the health of the population than earning billions.

I agree we should only trust the industries that make inferior products and are not able to generate any income.

Unless you plan to produce your own medications/vaccines you are going to have to trust somebody now i know big pharma has it's issues but I would trust their product over their Haitian competitor , well depending on who has the best tweets.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. Zinc channels the HCQ into the cells so that it can block replication.

Channels the HCQ? Sorry, but that's just BS.

Your link is an observation study looking at only 255 cases. It's not peer reviewed. Take a look at the meta studies I linked in this post: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...ostcount=54030

There is ample evidence showing that HCQ isn't really that effective for covid. In some cases it even increased mortality. It's been discussed for over a year.

[Monticore]

non american treatment guidines


About treatments for COVID-19
Several different types of treatments for COVID-19 have been developed. Examples include drugs that reduce or stop the virus from multiplying in human cells and drugs that treat the symptoms of COVID-19.

In Canada, Health Canada has approved the following treatments:

Remdesivir
Bamlanivimab
Casirivimab and imdevimab
Sotrovimab

Authorized drugs
Among hospitalized patients who have COVID-19 and require supplemental oxygen or mechanical ventilation, clinicians should strongly consider:

dexamethasone 6 mg IV for 10 days (or until discharge if earlier) or equivalent glucocorticoid dose

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...reatments.html


haven't read through the whole thing but but no mention of HCQ

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

When people say that studies have shown a lack of efficacy, they're talking about studies of HCQ or CQ by itself.
It has to be combined with zinc to be truly effective. Zinc channels the HCQ into the cells so that it can block replication. This is the treatment that doctors in FL and various places were having wild success with last year.

It's a little fishy that Fauci chose to base his assessment of "a clear lack of efficacy" (and even calling it dangerous) on the one study that was completely fraudulent. Any professional who isn't incompetent could have glanced at that study and found a million red flags. I don't think that Fauci's incompetent. Do you?

Even when The Lancet was forced to retract that bogus study, Fauci and company only doubled down on their aggressive attack on the treatment. Is there any logical reason that a drug that's been safely and commonly used for 65 years should be banned? The worst thing that you could rationally say about it is that it may only be mildly effective.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...mes/ar-AAKSGnq

This is a recent study which shows that HCQ/zinc increased the survival rate by 200% in severely ill patients.
Which is consistent with the anecdotal evidence from last year.

I know it may seem like I'm the one who isn't being objective. I see the opposite. I see people who want to talk themselves into believing the narrative that seems less "crazy" and more commonly accepted/mainstream, and to do so they ignore red flags and inconsistencies.

Frankly, I don't know why everybody's first instinct is to roll their eyes when someone accuses the least-trusted industry in America of greed. They should be rolling their eyes at the suggestion that the industry cares more about the health of the population than earning billions.

And this is why the conversation always derails. You're not looking to learn. You're looking to defend a position that you don't even understand. It just becomes a waste of everyone's time.