***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

A lot of folks appear to have an irrational fear of being "wrong."

Ain't that the truth. I'm sure there are lots of actual doctors out there who were excited to hear about some initial findings of things that could help and may have even put themselves out there as being believers... but, then it doesn't work out and those downright mature adults think, well shit, I was wrong about that, and move on.

Some people seem to think it's healthier to entrench themselves into an opinion the moment they learn about a certain thing than to "flip flop around" as you learn more. And that's basically why a lot of people hate science.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Ain't that the truth. I'm sure there are lots of actual doctors out there who were excited to hear about some initial findings of things that could help and may have even put themselves out there as being believers... but, then it doesn't work out and those downright mature adults think, well shit, I was wrong about that, and move on.

Some people seem to think it's healthier to entrench themselves into an opinion the moment they learn about a certain thing than to "flip flop around" as you learn more. And that's basically why a lot of people hate science.

Do you people understand that no one is arguing that HCQ alone is a great treatment? Without zinc, it's practically useless. And the few studies which involve zinc have shown great promise. Anecdotal evidence is great as well. Prove me wrong.

[DaFace]

Do you guys hear something? It's like there's an annoying fly buzzing around in here.

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Do you people understand that no one is arguing that HCQ alone is a great treatment? Without zinc, it's practically useless. And the few studies which involve zinc have shown great promise. Anecdotal evidence is great as well. Prove me wrong.

The experts from over 30 countries with more expertise than your guys say it doesn't work with or without zinc, we don't have to prove you wrong it has already been done by them.

You seem to think it makes more sense that it isn't being used due to a global conspiracy rather than the drug you know little about might not be as good as you think to treat a disease you know little about.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Do you people understand that no one is arguing that HCQ alone is a great treatment? Without zinc, it's practically useless. And the few studies which involve zinc have shown great promise. Anecdotal evidence is great as well. Prove me wrong.

The vaccines work. Why not focus your energy in that direction?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Maybe that's why he and I have so much trouble seeing eye to eye.

Me: "Here are a bunch of facts about the thread discussion."

Stevie: "You're a poopy face."

Checkmate, I suppose.

That's literally his contribution to this site, if you also include the cryptic non sequiturs.

[carlos3652]

Again, regardless if all 360m people in the US are vaccinated, the 5.2 billion people around the world that are not will make the variants that we will have to deal with. Delta came from India, one from Peru, one from Brazil... people dont get it... Other countries need to get on the bandwagon or else it means nothing...

Forcing people is not the answer here.
How do you determine the difference between people who have had the shot or already have natural immunity or have already had the virus that haven't taken the shot?

You cant just put everyone in one bucket.. and say all unvaccinated are stupid.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Do you guys hear something? It's like there's an annoying fly buzzing around in here.

You could have the nicest cat wander in and it'll find its way out.

The goddamn flies get in and then never leave on their own.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by carlos3652

Again, regardless if all 360m people in the US are vaccinated, the 5.2 billion people around the world that are not will make the variants that we will have to deal with. Delta came from India, one from Peru, one from Brazil... people dont get it... Other countries need to get on the bandwagon or else it means nothing...

Forcing people is not the answer here.
How do you determine the difference between people who have had the shot or already have natural immunity or have already had the virus that haven't taken the shot?

You cant just put everyone in one bucket.. and say all unvaccinated are stupid.

What's your solution?

[mr. tegu]

According to this CDC chart we have less hospitalizations for the 18-49 group per 100,000 people than the same time last year.

3.6 per 100k ending 7/31/21 compared to 5.1 per 100k 8/1/20. There was less movement and openness this time last year in those numbers, but this year more openness however with vaccines, so perhaps those differences even out with 2020 and the original variant still producing more hospitalizations. But it’s hard to say based on these numbers this variant hits younger people harder than the original variant.

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/covid19_3.html

Perhaps there is other data that would support it affecting younger people different or harder than the original variant.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Dr. Fauci: If community spread doesn’t get under control, U.S. “may sooner or later get another variant.” https://t.co/3YDxeaU7KG pic.twitter.com/snj0tDJ4H2

— ABC News (@ABC) August 5, 2021

He's trying to emphasize the importance of getting vaccinated so that we lower the risk of more variants, which is true. I can't help but wonder if we'd be better off with a new spokesman, though. I have nothing major against the guy, but there's no question that he tends to drift toward worst-case scenarios (because he's right), and that just makes people shut down.

Also the whole world is a ripe breeding ground for new variants. The US is just a tiny drop in that bucket.

The main reason is so we can ****ing go back to normal and stop overloading the hospitals - which leads to severe sacrifices in other kinds of care, and traumatizing front-line health workers.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

According to this CDC chart we have less hospitalizations for the 18-49 group per 100,000 people than the same time last year.

3.6 per 100k ending 7/31/21 compared to 5.1 per 100k 8/1/20. There was less movement and openness this time last year in those numbers, but this year more openness however with vaccines, so perhaps those differences even out with 2020 and the original variant still producing more hospitalizations. But it’s hard to say based on these numbers this variant hits younger people harder than the original variant.

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/covid19_3.html

Perhaps there is other data that would support it affecting younger people different or harder than the original variant.

MISINFORMATION

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Monticore

The experts from over 30 countries with more expertise than your guys say it doesn't work with or without zinc, we don't have to prove you wrong it has already been done by them.

You seem to think it makes more sense that it isn't being used due to a global conspiracy rather than the drug you know little about might not be as good as you think to treat a disease you know little about.

As if you know shit about any of it. You're just parroting your chosen sources like everybody else.

It doesn't matter how much I know about the drug or the disease. I know that zinc/HCQ has had very good results. That's all that matters.

Know who might know a thing or two about it? The American Journal of Medicine, which recommends HCQ, Azithromycin, and Zinc as the most effective treatment.

But you once saw a post which said that it's ineffective with or without zinc and now you're ready to argue it to the death.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

As if you know shit about any of it. You're just parroting your chosen sources like everybody else.

It doesn't matter how much I know about the drug or the disease. I know that zinc/HCQ has had very good results. That's all that matters.

Know who might know a thing or two about it? The American Journal of Medicine, which recommends HCQ, Azithromycin, and Zinc as the most effective treatment.

But you once saw a post which said that it's ineffective with or without zinc and now you're ready to argue it to the death.

Except here's information directly from the American Journal of Medicine stating the exact opposite of what you claim:

a number of these agents, including HCQ, have been shown to be ineffective or harmful in preventing or treating infection with SARS-CoV-2. The AJM is one of many publications to call attention to this evolving scientific information. Despite these new data, the government of Brazil continues to cite “the prestigious American Journal of Medicine” as proof that hydroxychloroquine can prevent or treat COVID-19. In other words, the Brazilian government claims that the AJM had given a seal of approval to the use of HCQ. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The AJM is neither a regulatory agency nor an arbiter of political and scientific disputes. The AJM is a vehicle of communication employed by scientists and clinicians to report information that is potentially useful to physicians throughout the world. It is completely inaccurate to claim that the AJM has endorsed a therapeutic intervention. The article that the Brazilian government quotes as “proof” of the efficacy of HCQ was posted in PubMed before studies demonstrated that HCQ does more harm than good.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002...092-9/fulltext

That quote directly refutes your claim. I'm sure you'll revise your opinion now, after being shown direct evidence from the source.... right?

[carlos3652]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

What's your solution?

Great question. I dont have the resources or the data to give you something that would solve this (and lets be honest, even if I had all those things, I probably wouldnt be able to as it is not my field of expertise).

We are in a Covid (non political) thread, so I would love to leave the government out of any solution.

I think too many here are focused on Unvaxxed vs Vaxxed. The comparisons between them and of course, all things equal of a singular person, having been vaxxed is beneficial to the end user in making sure their survival rate has better chances if and when they get Covid. I think that is proven.

That being said, not everyone is created the same, or has the same issues. The Vaxx maybe more harmful to some, than getting Covid. Thats a real possibility.

My personal circle has had brain clots from the J and J vaccine as well as other issues. Some, like my parents, are fine after having small side affects (My family came to the States to take the vaccine because there werent enough in Argentina)

Some already have had Covid and are immune (at least from the variant they had) - Not enough data

Some are naturally immune - Not enough data

Some are not getting the vaccination because they have certain religious beliefs.

Some are not getting the vaccination because of government trust (minorities)

Some are not getting the vaccination because they want to get pregnant or other issues and the clinical studies have not been able to be had for long term effects.

The variants are not coming from inside the US, so as far as I know Delta or Gamma or Lambda was not because of the unvaxxed in the US. (There are 100m maybe in the US, 5.4 billion worldwide?, what are the probabilities)

So I would stop blaming the unvaccinated in the US for things they have not caused. There is too much hate and finger pointing and white knighting.

* How about focusing on making sure our hospitals having what they need to support the extra influx during seasonality issues. We were not prepared to handled the extra load.

* How about focusing on better messaging (not fear porn or blaming) from our Health Professionals and transparency with the data (good or bad)

* How about focusing on the things we can control and stop blaming Red / Blue States for problems.

* Minorities are a real issue here. They have low vaccination rates. Help them get what they need by providing additional avenues.

I don't know, forcing people to take this vaccine is not the answer and dividing people or shaming people into doing it is also wrong.