***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by Fish

I got the Moderna. So, personally I don't feel it's necessary for me at this point. But if new info comes out showing anything different than what we currently know, I'd absolutely consider it.

Seems most likely it will be the immunosuppressed, where there is fear of inadequate antibody response.

This is not based on any data I know of though.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by TLO

What are the sane and reasonable folks thoughts in here about boosters?

My thoughts are that if they what to roll out boosters on a large scale, than make it an option when you get the flu shot and be done with it.

[O.city]

https://twitter.com/phl43/status/142...081393665?s=21

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

And therein lies the problem. You guys are so invested in the media-driven narrative that you won’t even listen to other possibilities.

Studies have shown that it only takes about 6 weeks of propagandizing to thoroughly brainwash a population and ruin their ability to see reason. And at that point, nothing they’re presented with will change their mind. If that isn’t playing out before our eyes...

Hell, earlier in this thread somebody suggested that people with PhDs have less common sense than those with lesser degrees as an attempt to explain why PhDs are less likely to take the vaccine.

The nonsense that’s been thrown at us for the last 16 months should be laughed at and treated like comedy. A farce. But no one’s laughing.

I don't understand where you're disagreeing with what I'm saying.

If I was a public health official, I'd be pushing information where it can do the most good.

I'd push treatment information into the hands of medical providers because that's where they're going to do the most good.

I'd push prevention information into the hands of the public because that's where they're going to do the most good.

Do you agree with that? If so, you don't need treatment information to be pushed in the general public. That information is going out through industry sources and health care employers. In fact, if I'm being really strategic (and maybe a little cunning) I don't want the public to know about treatment protocols because if they're comfortable getting treated, it could distract them from their more productive path toward prevention.

As an analogy, if you developed a great treatment protocol for diabetes, that's great. But the better thing is still to keep people from getting diabetes in the first place, so you still want the prevailing message to the public to be about eating right and exercising. You don't really want the message to be, "Yeah, it's not a big deal if you get diabetes because we've now figured out how to make it not kill you."

[dirk digler]

Brutal takedown from a doctor on Covid unit. Patient took hydroxychloroquine (experimental for Covid), monoclonal antibodies (experimental), Remesidivr (experimental) and then died. Would have lived if gotten the vaccine.

Wake up people.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...id-doctor-shot

Op-Ed: As a doctor in a COVID unit, I’m running out of compassion for the unvaccinated. Get the shot

My patient sat at the edge of his bed gasping for air while he tried to tell me his story, pausing to catch his breath after each word. The plastic tubes delivering oxygen through his nose hardly seemed adequate to stop his chest from heaving. He looked exhausted.

He had tested positive for the coronavirus 10 days ago. He was under 50, mildly hypertensive but otherwise in good health. Eight days earlier he started coughing and having severe fatigue. His doctor started him on antibiotics. It did not work.

Fearing his symptoms were worsening, he started taking some hydroxychloroquine he had found on the internet. It did not work.

He was now experiencing shortness of breath while doing routine daily activities such as walking from his bedroom to the bathroom or putting on his shoes. He was a shell of his former self. He eventually made his way to a facility where he could receive monoclonal antibodies, a lab-produced transfusion that substitutes for the body’s own antibodies. It did not work.

He finally ended up in the ER with dangerously low oxygen levels, exceedingly high inflammatory markers and patchy areas of infection all over his lungs. Nothing had helped. He was getting worse. He could not breathe. His wife and two young children were at home, all infected with COVID. He and his wife had decided not to get vaccinated.

Last year, a case like this would have flattened me. I would have wrestled with the sadness and how unfair life was. Battled with the angst of how unlucky he was. This year, I struggled to find sympathy. It was August 2021, not 2020. The vaccine had been widely available for months in the U.S., free to anyone who wanted it, even offered in drugstores and supermarkets. Cutting-edge, revolutionary, mind-blowing, lifesaving vaccines were available where people shopped for groceries, and they still didn’t want them.

Outside his hospital door, I took a deep breath — battening down my anger and frustration — and went in. I had been working the COVID units for 17 months straight, all day, every day. I had cared for hundreds of COVID patients. We all had, without being able to take breaks long enough to help us recover from this unending ordeal. Compassion fatigue was setting in. For those of us who hadn’t left after the hardest year of our professional lives, even hope was now in short supply.

Shouting through my N95 mask and the noise of the HEPA filter, I introduced myself. I calmly asked him why he decided not to get vaccinated.

“Well, I’m not an anti-vaxxer or anything. I was just waiting for the FDA to approve the vaccine first. I didn’t want to take anything experimental. I didn’t want to be the government’s guinea pig, and I don’t trust that it’s safe,” he said.

“Well,” I said, “I can pretty much guarantee we would have never met had you gotten vaccinated because you would have never been hospitalized. All of our COVID units are full and every single patient in them is unvaccinated. Numbers don’t lie. The vaccines work.”

This was a common excuse people gave for not getting vaccinated, fearing the vaccine because the Food and Drug Administration had only granted it emergency-use authorization so far, not permanent approval. Yet the treatments he had turned to, antibiotics, monoclonal antibodies and hydroxychloroquine were considered experimental, with mixed evidence to support their use.

The only proven lifesaver we’ve had in this pandemic is a vaccine that many people don’t want. A vaccine we give away to other countries because supply overwhelms demand in the U.S. A vaccine people in other countries stand in line for hours to receive, if they can get it at all.

“Well,” I said, “I am going to treat you with, remdesivir, which only recently received FDA approval.” I explained that it had been under an EUA for most of last year and had not been studied or administered as widely as COVID-19 vaccines. That more than 353 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine had been administered in the U.S. along with more than 4.7 billion doses worldwide without any overwhelming, catastrophic side effects. “Not nearly as many doses of remdesivir have been given or studied in people and its long-term side effects are still unknown,” I said. “Do you still want me to give it to you?”

“Yes” he responded, “Whatever it takes to save my life.”

It did not work.

My patient died nine days later from a fatal stroke. We, the care team, reconciled this loss by telling ourselves: He made a personal choice not to get vaccinated, not to protect himself or his family. We did everything we could with what we had to save him. This year, this tragedy, this unnecessary, entirely preventable loss, was on him.

[O.city]

I don't think those stories are necessary. I don't care for them, it's heartless. We've lost it as a society if we get to that point.

[O.city]

After reading some stuff this morning between patients, I think the booster shot should be held off for those not immunocompromised or the elderly at this point.

The Israel numbers showing declining numbers have some issues in how they were calculated.

[wazu]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't think those stories are necessary. I don't care for them, it's heartless. We've lost it as a society if we get to that point.

I've had similar feelings when reading these. Have been seeing friends just like this guy being hospitalized. If they don't end up making it, the last thing I want is for there to be some narrative that they were a dumbass or they deserve a Darwin Award. But I also think these stories can be powerful and relatable for people who were on the fence or putting it off, or saying they'll take the "moderate" approach of waiting for full FDA approval.

[TLO]

Originally Posted by O.city

After reading some stuff this morning between patients, I think the booster shot should be held off for those not immunocompromised or the elderly at this point.

The Israel numbers showing declining numbers have some issues in how they were calculated.

What about the Mayo Clinic study though?

I was reading that thread from Chise earlier. Compelling info there.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't think those stories are necessary. I don't care for them, it's heartless. We've lost it as a society if we get to that point.

We need to hear more of these actually. I have said for a long time they should have embedded the media in the Covid units to show how these people are dying. If you witness it maybe that will change your mind. Kind of like war reporting.

[louie aguiar]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't think those stories are necessary. I don't care for them, it's heartless. We've lost it as a society if we get to that point.

I don't either. I've seen quite a few of them. People unfortunately make poor life choices that impact their health every day but there isn't the amount of shaming involved. Were these same doctors shaming HIV patients in the 80s and 90s for having unprotected sex and/or using dirty needles? Do we shame obese people for contracting type II diabetes? The list goes on...

[TLO]

It seems as though we're going to get some US data today telling us why we need booster shots.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by louie aguiar

I don't either. I've seen quite a few of them. People unfortunately make poor life choices that impact their health every day but there isn't the amount of shaming involved. Were these same doctors shaming HIV patients in the 80s and 90s for having unprotected sex and/or using dirty needles? Do we shame obese people for contracting type II diabetes? The list goes on...

Uhhh...yes. I guess I don't know that doctors themselves shamed people (there was no internet back then after all), but all of those groups were absolutely shamed (and still are to some extent) by the general public.

Regarding the stories, I think people are just trying to figure out what can possibly get through to people. Logic doesn't help. Evidence doesn't help. If stories of other people who refused the vaccine and paid the price don't help, then we're all out of options. I can see why docs are starting to lose their ability to feel sorry for people.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

We need to hear more of these actually. I have said for a long time they should have embedded the media in the Covid units to show how these people are dying. If you witness it maybe that will change your mind. Kind of like war reporting.

You don't convince people to do something by making them feel stupid.

[louie aguiar]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Uhhh...yes. I guess I don't know that doctors themselves shamed people (there was no internet back then after all), but all of those groups were absolutely shamed (and still are to some extent) by the general public.

Regarding the stories, I think people are just trying to figure out what can possibly get through to people. Logic doesn't help. Evidence doesn't help. If stories of other people who refused the vaccine and paid the price don't help, then we're all out of options. I can see why docs are starting to lose their ability to feel sorry for people.

My father-in-law died from cancer 10 years ago. He had been a smoker since his teens and he died from a disease that was entirely preventable and brought about by his poor health choices. All I know is that it would have been so incredibly hurtful for people that didn't know him to shame him for his life choices and to post about his life on facebook, etc.