***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by KCUnited

Unless they start showing footage of Americans dying of this on tv, consecutive 50 degree sunny days will likely put an end to any serious quarantine efforts here. It's been 2 days and people seem to be getting over it already.

just look at the pics the last few days on the beaches down here. 84 and they are packed with milliennials.

[RINGLEADER]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm not really concerned about that with Millennials or Gen Z. Most people of those generations are used to being indoors and communicating via their electronic devices.

I'm not really concerned about Boomers, as duh, they're at the highest risk of contracting this disease and dying.

It's really about the Gen X'ers. We grew up much differently than the other generations and there's probably a lower tolerance for being kept indoors or on a curfew.

All that said, I think it would take a few months before any real civil unrest rears is ugly head and hopefully, it never comes to that on any scale.

My parents (who are in their eighties) made an interesting observation — they both said it reminded them of how life was like in WW2 as kids. They did what they had to do and that this felt the same.

[Hammock Parties]

Oh wow. We're socialists now.

NEW: Treasury Sec. Steve Mnuchin: "We're looking at sending checks to Americans immediately...and I mean now, in the next two weeks."

Mnuchin declined to name an amount. https://t.co/fGuwrsbtfV pic.twitter.com/n8vtFOlZv9

— ABC News (@ABC) March 17, 2020

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

yeah there are millions of Middle class working Americans in the same boat. No fault of their own and now, no income coming in. Glad to hear Congress talking about putting money immediately into the pockets of the poor and middle class to help tide people over for a little while.

Looking at the stimulus packages in Europe suggests what we're more likely to eventually start doing here.

They're guaranteeing billions in loans. If the government comes up with a package that offers something similar, that should calm the markets down quite a bit.

Give business owners the understanding that they'll have banks that are fully backed by the gov't and thus willing to stand behind them to get through this and they'll calm down a LOT.

This initial package that's cleared the House doesn't do that and that's why you've seen little in the way of market response. What we've seen now does nothing but encourage businesses to cut their employees loose. "Well if the gov't is pumping money into unemployment...guess you're on your own. Sorry - keep your contact information up to date..."

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Oh wow. We're socialists now.

NEW: Treasury Sec. Steve Mnuchin: "We're looking at sending checks to Americans immediately...and I mean now, in the next two weeks."

Mnuchin declined to name an amount. https://t.co/fGuwrsbtfV pic.twitter.com/n8vtFOlZv9

— ABC News (@ABC) March 17, 2020

Give me a bunch of money my dudes, I need some TP.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Oh wow. We're socialists now.

NEW: Treasury Sec. Steve Mnuchin: "We're looking at sending checks to Americans immediately...and I mean now, in the next two weeks."

Mnuchin declined to name an amount. https://t.co/fGuwrsbtfV pic.twitter.com/n8vtFOlZv9

— ABC News (@ABC) March 17, 2020

Yeah, to my eyes that's just backwards. It's populist (to be generous) and does little to truly calm things.

That approach will GET people laid off. You want to prevent layoffs, back loans. And if companies get them but then don't need them, they'll pay 'em back. If they need 'em but the economy comes out as hot as many expect when this passes, they'll recover significant chunks of those losses as things improve and can pay them back over a reasonably short period of time.

But you have to give businesses the confidence that there will be banks willing to stand behind them. And to do that you have to signal the banks that the government will stand behind them.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

My parents (who are in their eighties) made an interesting observation — they both said it reminded them of how life was like in WW2 as kids. They did what they had to do and that this felt the same.

That's kind of been my thinking as well.

We're bound together as a Nation to combat this thing and it's really the first time since the US entered WWII.

We've had other tragedies that have affected certain parts of the country in 9/11, school shootings, etc. but those are isolated events that don't effect everyone.

We live in the Greatest Nation On Earth. We can get through this together as One.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by patteeu

So is he matching or doubling? Aren't they the same thing?

Matching is making the same donation [double TOTAL, when you add together Tyreek and Travis]
Doubling is making twice the donation [triple TOTAL, 1+2]

[Discuss Thrower]

I'm kicking myself for not re-reading the Plague back in January before I started Soldier of a Great War.

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's really about the Gen X'ers. We grew up much differently than the other generations and there's probably a lower tolerance for being kept indoors or on a curfew.

You're goddamn right. If I want to go for a ride in my Camero at 2am, by god I'm going for a ride in my Camero at 2am.

[DJ's left nut]

So evidently MU Health is forming a plan to create a triage unit at University Hospital for an eventual surge in cases.

My wife is a clinic nurse and eventually you have to believe they'll shut down clinics for all non-emergency cases. In urology that's like...none of 'em. Really, most clinics see very few emergency cases so I suspect if/when this starts to ramp up in mid-mo, we'll see Mizzou shut down clinics and reallocate nurses to critical care triage units.

To Dane's point, that's why I see the 'critical care' stats as faulty. They simply aren't considering surge capacity. My wife isn't figured at all in those statistics right now but in the event they close clinics, it will free up dozens of nurses (who were all trained on the floor at one point) to address critical care shortages. We could easily triple our capacity in the span of a few weeks, especially with so many healthcare providers putting together contingencies now.

We'll find solutions. We're !@#$ing good at this.

{waves flag}

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, to my eyes that's just backwards. It's populist (to be generous) and does little to truly calm things.

I watched the entire press conference this morning.

The POTUS and Mnunchin both said that "Millionaires" won't receive checks and that there will be a cutoff but that most Americans will receive $1,000 dollars to spend at will.

Mnuchin didn't clarify but if going by his words, if each American worker is given $1,000 dollars, meaning that two income households receive $2,000 dollars, it should ease some of the unrest.

It's a bold move and from my recollection, the first of its kind, which again proves that not only is the country not prepared for a pandemic but that we're facing something completely unprecedented.

Let's just hope that we can learn from this situation because I highly doubt this will be the last time.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Looking at the stimulus packages in Europe suggests what we're more likely to eventually start doing here.

They're guaranteeing billions in loans. If the government comes up with a package that offers something similar, that should calm the markets down quite a bit.

Give business owners the understanding that they'll have banks that are fully backed by the gov't and thus willing to stand behind them to get through this and they'll calm down a LOT.

This initial package that's cleared the House doesn't do that and that's why you've seen little in the way of market response. What we've seen now does nothing but encourage businesses to cut their employees loose. "Well if the gov't is pumping money into unemployment...guess you're on your own. Sorry - keep your contact information up to date..."

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, to my eyes that's just backwards. It's populist (to be generous) and does little to truly calm things.

That approach will GET people laid off. You want to prevent layoffs, back loans. And if companies get them but then don't need them, they'll pay 'em back. If they need 'em but the economy comes out as hot as many expect when this passes, they'll recover significant chunks of those losses as things improve and can pay them back over a reasonably short period of time.

But you have to give businesses the confidence that there will be banks willing to stand behind them. And to do that you have to signal the banks that the government will stand behind them.

I have no clue on economic theories.

I see no way to talk about these issues without bringing politics into the discussion. So I’m going to punt on any bailout, stimulus etc. discussion.

[RINGLEADER]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

just look at the pics the last few days on the beaches down here. 84 and they are packed with milliennials.

Was talking with some financial types who basically said this has been handled all wrong by the politicians (big surprise). Instead of sequestering those at greatest risk and using common sense for everyone else it is now a race to shut down the economy completely over something that — at worst case — may be twice as virulent as the flu for those 50 and under and is likely not much more than that in total. Their theory is that the 1.5% mortality rate in the US is based on a total number of cases that is significantly higher (because of asymptomatic carriers who never get sick, those with minor cases who never reported it, etc.) and this would further dilute the total mortality rate (as some have pointed out here).

All that said, since the politicians have adopted the current strategy they see the markets falling another 20%-30% regardless of stimulus since there is no real way to have meaningful commerce for the foreseeable future. They say we would have done better turning off the stock market for a month, focusing on quarantines of the elderly and letting the chips fall with everyone else, 99.5% of whom would get something closer to the flu.

They also told me to sell Apple at $100 so WTF do they know, but I thought it was an interesting take even if completely wrong.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I watched the entire press conference this morning.

The POTUS and Mnunchin both said that "Millionaires" won't receive checks and that there will be a cutoff but that most Americans will receive $1,000 dollars to spend at will.

Mnuchin didn't clarify but if going by his words, if each American worker is given $1,000 dollars, meaning that two income households receive $2,000 dollars, it should ease some of the unrest.

It's a bold move and from my recollection, the first of its kind, which again proves that not only is the country not prepared for a pandemic but that we're facing something completely unprecedented.

Let's just hope that we can learn from this situation because I highly doubt this will be the last time.

But here's the thing - what's it actually do?

The key to any dollar spent is not the dollar, right? It's the multiplier effect of that dollar. You give someone a dollar and they save it, it does dick. But if they spend it, it cycles around dozens of times through various consumers before it eventually peters out (as everyone saves a few cents per 'touch').

So if you shut down the economy but give everyone $1,000, they'll...what? Pay the mortgage and buy some groceries. Well the mortgage/rent money will largely stall out as well because it'll go to a bank who will then hold onto it like grim death because the economy is frozen. The grocery money will cycle through a much smaller pool of consumers before it's multiplier peters out because again, people are scared.

The answer isn't a direct infusion because it won't multiply well due to the fear from banks/businesses.

It just seems wholly politically motivated rather than truly designed to address the problems that will eventually surface on the ground.