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08-12-2010, 03:24 PM | #5596 | |
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Hateful? We saw different films. |
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08-12-2010, 03:26 PM | #5597 |
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How does that shit not posit that Jews are dirty, unseemly, horrible people that ruin young women?
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08-12-2010, 03:30 PM | #5598 | |
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I think you're seeing something that isn't there, or you're blinded by some sort of personal bias or prejudice or something, man. I don't know. But that thought never once crossed my mind while watching it or while discussing it until you brought it up. Seems like a reach. A big one. |
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08-12-2010, 03:32 PM | #5599 | |
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08-12-2010, 03:41 PM | #5600 |
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I mean, a Google search of "an education anti semetic" turns up only 724,000 results. Yup. No one is making the claim of anti-Semitism in this film. My bad.
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08-12-2010, 03:58 PM | #5601 |
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What do you want me to say? You made (what I think is) a fairly absurd accusation. You provided zero evidence for your claim. Rather than fight/debate with you, I just said that we obviously saw different films.
I provided the same amount of "evidence" for my opinion that you did. But really, isn't the burden of proof on you? My "because it's doesn't" response is just as valid as your "because it does" accusation. I did not get that message or picture or feeling or whatever from the film. Not at all. Not once at any time. You obviously did. I'm sure you can list all the instances you have for why you feel the way you do. And I'll disagree. And you'll tell me I'm inferior (and/or wrong) in some way, or that my response wasn't detailed enough or valid enough because of some whim or semantic twisting. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. But I think it's inappropriate and irresponsible to just go around calling artists hateful and anti-semitic. I'll say it again, we obviously saw different films. Last edited by Red Brooklyn; 08-12-2010 at 05:00 PM.. |
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08-12-2010, 03:59 PM | #5602 | |
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I've read a few others now... and those are just as absurd to me. |
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08-12-2010, 04:14 PM | #5603 |
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Watched "Ip Man" last night and HOLY SHIT... This ranks among the best kung fu movies I've seen... Just watch this clip from the movie:
After seeing his friend slaughtered in front of him -- he takes on 10
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08-12-2010, 04:30 PM | #5604 | |
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Not only is explicit mention made of Peter Sarsgaard's character as a Jew (with ostensibly no real impact on the plot) but specifically a wandering Jew. Sarsgaard's character is morally detestable - he lasciviously goes around and seduces proper young women and ruins them. He corrupts British girls and acts as a sort of social Svengali for them. He makes money in reprehensible ways: obtaining valuable works of art from dying or dead or elderly people, corrupting property values by manipulating both aspirant middle class blacks and the phenomenon of white flight, etc. He's always using this royal 'We' (which obviously refers to the Jewish people) to justify his behavior. There are plenty of examples that others have seen; one site review talks about the inability for Sarsgaard to be sexy in seduction, for example. Then, of course, there is the undeniably anti-Semetic headmistress of Mulligan's school. Mulligan tries to defend her Jew but is shot down with a line about Jesus being a Jew is a fiction. The film proceeds to justify that anti-Semetic screed by making Sarsgaard's character even less appealing that he already was; he is revealed to be cheating on his wife. Sarsgaard's character essentially goes through every terrible, racist stereotype against Jews that there is. What you are doing right now is the equivalent of calling absurd the idea of a film that depicts black people as monkey-behaving, gang-raping, watermelon-eating, too-dumb-to-work-anything-except-a-cotton-field being a racist film. |
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08-12-2010, 04:35 PM | #5605 |
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08-12-2010, 05:24 PM | #5606 |
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Ip Man is very cool. Definitely the best Kung Fu movie in the last decade. The sequel isn't as good, but the first was just awesome. I also recommend True Legend, which was directed by Yuen Woo Ping and should be coming out before years end.
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08-12-2010, 05:42 PM | #5607 | |
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The film certainly deals with anti-semitic themes, but that does not make the movie hateful. Many of the film's characters are ignorant and racist, but that doesn't make the film so. Hornby has talked openly about how he struggled with the idea of changing the truth. There was talk of changing Sarsgaard's character so that he wasn't Jewish. Ultimately, it was decided that changing the facts would be more offensive and insulting to the audience and to the Jewish community. This was even discussed with the films original director - a Jew. It's a period film. At that point in British history antisemitism was prevalent. Would you rather they sugarcoat the truth? I'm sorry if the movie made you uncomfortable. If you dislike the movie because of it's themes, I understand and I can't blame you for that. They are tough themes. But that's the same reason why I don't recommend Happiness to everyone. The movie portrays a pedophile in a human, (at times even) compassionate light. Does that mean the film is advocating pedophilia? Absolutely not! Last edited by Red Brooklyn; 08-13-2010 at 06:27 AM.. Reason: owed it to Reaper |
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08-12-2010, 05:56 PM | #5608 | |
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So, looking solely at the film itself, I can't agree with you that the film isn't in agreement with its hate. Every ignorant comment made about the Jewish people as a whole in that film was fully justified when looking at Sarsgaard's character. Those ignorant characters looked pretty damn prophetic by the end of the film. He was a terrible person - a thief, a racist, a creep - who justified his behavior with his Jewness. He had numerous lines about Jewish behavior in which he used the royal "We," making him a representative for the entier Jewish people. What's worse is that there isn't a need in the film to have the character be 1.) Jewish and 2.) a ridiculous cornucopia of harmful stereotypes at that. The ONLY justification for his behavior was that he was Jewish. Of course there are terrible people of all races and cultures. No one is terrible simply because their race is inherently terrible - which is exactly what the film is suggesting, intentionally or not. I can't see how that doesn't make the film agree with its characters. Maybe you can help me understand how with another civics lesson. I don't understand your last paragraph, either. There are no cultural stereotypes that portray the average middle-aged white man as a serial killer. There ARE old, pervasive cultural sterotypes that say the average Jewish man is exactly how Sarsgaard's character is. |
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08-12-2010, 06:24 PM | #5609 |
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I apologize for my "lecture." I apologize for wasting your time with my "condescending" and "irrelevant" "civics lesson". My intent was never to lecture, to be condescending and/or irrelevant. Forgive me.
I retract the last paragraph of my previous post. We saw different films. Last edited by Red Brooklyn; 08-12-2010 at 06:46 PM.. Reason: said some petty, stupid shit... wanted to fix it. |
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08-12-2010, 06:38 PM | #5610 | |
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If you want me to apologize for my tone towards you I will. I think you'd have realized by now with me that when I'm a dick to people it isn't personal. |
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