***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by O.city

Using antibodies as the sole determining factor in anything just doesn’t make sense to me. Antibodies always wane, they don’t stick around forever nor do we want them to.

I agree , I just really understand why people are making big deal people make about the breakthrough or reinfections , your body will only start mounting a defense once it has been exposed let's say you had 0 antibodies at the time .

I understand the ability to spread is an issue but i don't understand why people are using at a sign the vaccines aren't effective.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

This isn't about bad predictions.

I thought the vaccines would be better than they are and thought with natural immunity + vaccine immunity we would have very little transmission by now.

Obviously the vaccine immunity didn't add much to built up natural immunity...now top epidemiologists are saying we can't vax our way to herd immunity.

If the country had a 90%+ vaccination rate including kids, I bet things would be back to normal by now.

But between Delta and big pockets of low vaccination rates, yeah it's sticking around. The vaccination rate stalling out and the virus continuing to spread has been my prediction all along.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan

If the country had a 90%+ vaccination rate including kids, I bet things would be back to normal by now.

But between Delta and big pockets of low vaccination rates, yeah it's sticking around. The vaccination rate stalling out and the virus continuing to spread has been my prediction all along.

Israel disproves this.


They got their 2 shots and now are talking about shots 3 and 4.

Things go back to normal only when we stop mass asymptomatic testing and just declare things over.

China went back to normal in March 2020 with no vaccines.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Israel disproves this.


They got their 2 shots and now are talking about shots 3 and 4.

Things go back to normal only when we stop mass asymptomatic testing and just declare things over.

China went back to normal in March 2020 with no vaccines.

Except it doesn't. Israel went ahead early in rates of vaccination, but in terms of population, they aren't near where some of the European nations that are now relaxing every thing are. Last I saw, they were around 64% fully vaccinated.

But to go further into your post here, are you saying asymptomatic testing is where our cases are now?

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by O.city

Except it doesn't. Israel went ahead early in rates of vaccination, but in terms of population, they aren't near where some of the European nations that are now relaxing every thing are. Last I saw, they were around 64% fully vaccinated.

But to go further into your post here, are you saying asymptomatic testing is where our cases are now?

Israel, Norway, and Sweden are all within 2 percentage points here.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021...-vaccinations/


With regards to testing, mass testing creates mass chaos. Just test people that are sick or in LTC facilities or hospitals.

You can't go back to normal if you are still worried about cases.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Israel, Norway, and Sweden are all within 2 percentage points here.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021...-vaccinations/


With regards to testing, mass testing creates mass chaos. Just test people that are sick or in LTC facilities or hospitals.

You can't go back to normal if you are still worried about cases.

So as we can see, still large areas and pockets of non immune people. Pretty easy to see why cases and such are up and down. Israel has fully vaccinated 64% of it's population. So no, Israel isn't a test case for that numbers wise.


Ok, so we know vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths but can lead to cases. But you don't seem to care about those so whats the problem? Seems like you argue yourself in a circle.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by O.city

So as we can see, still large areas and pockets of non immune people. Pretty easy to see why cases and such are up and down.


Ok, so we know vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths but can lead to cases. But you don't seem to care about those so whats the problem? Seems like you argue yourself in a circle.

I could say the same for you.

The decision to go back to normal is a political choice. It has nothing to do with any metrics.

Sweden and Norway back to normal and Israel still in panic mode and talking about 4th booster and 4th lockdown.

It's not I who decided to panic, I am simply stating what is happening there.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

I could say the same for you.

The decision to go back to normal is a political choice. It has nothing to do with any metrics.

Sweden and Norway back to normal and Israel still in panic mode and talking about 4th booster and 4th lockdown.

It's not I who decided to panic, I am simply stating what is happening there.

While there are still non immune folks out there, it's gonna spread pretty quickly. I'd imagine, that's what the issue is.

Sweden has about 65% fully vaccinated population along with a pretty high amount of previous infection.

Israel still has a high amount of non immune as well.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing here. Things are and have been completely back to normal here in our area for well over a year. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths exploded starting in June, went thru July and August and are now going back down.

Nothing changed. At some point there's enough immunity to slow it down. It won't stop it from being endemic, it's not going away.

I think I've been pretty consistent in this thread so I guess, feel however you want. Quite a few people in this thread and around these parts have been pretty impacted by Covid, it's pretty sad.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Israel disproves this.


They got their 2 shots and now are talking about shots 3 and 4.

Things go back to normal only when we stop mass asymptomatic testing and just declare things over.

China went back to normal in March 2020 with no vaccines.

Just an FYI China is back on lock down.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Just an FYI China is back on lock down.

China has been open since March 2020 with no vaccines.

They do want us to be closed and they do like to use propaganda against the West.

I don't believe a word of what they say.

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

China has been open since March 2020 with no vaccines.

They do want us to be closed and they do like to use propaganda against the West.

I don't believe a word of what they say.

Yes, I'm sure their inability to deliver goods, or even keep electricity provided to their manufacturing sector is all a big show.

They want the world to move manufacturing home or to other SE Asian countries who didn't **** the world.

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

I could say the same for you.

The decision to go back to normal is a political choice. It has nothing to do with any metrics.

Sweden and Norway back to normal and Israel still in panic mode and talking about 4th booster and 4th lockdown.

It's not I who decided to panic, I am simply stating what is happening there.

Not sure what you are trying to argue here. Sweden and Norway aren't arguments for your stance on the pandemic. Both have higher vax rates than we do, much much higher in Norway's case.

Israel is an outlier at the moment, not the norm.

Why aren't you talking about Portugal?

Doesn't fit your world view, so you ignore it.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider

Not sure what you are trying to argue here. Sweden and Norway aren't arguments for your stance on the pandemic. Both have higher vax rates than we do, much much higher in Norway's case.

Israel is an outlier at the moment, not the norm.

Why aren't you talking about Portugal?

Doesn't fit your world view, so you ignore it.

There are states in the US with vaccinated percentages as high as the Nordics and they aren't back to normal. Why not?!

The US will never get to 75 percent. The people running the US response will never have the public trust the way Nordic health officials have . They also have no vaccine passports or mandates.

If you say the US can't get back till 75, 80 percent then we are never getting to normal.

Fauci just confirmed his position is Zero Covid. In other words, even with no deaths and low hospitalizations he wants to keep this game going.

His Zero Covid is as fringe scientifically as your denial of natural immunity.

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

There are states in the US with vaccinated percentages as high as the Nordics and they aren't back to normal. Why not?!

The US will never get to 75 percent. The people running the US response will never have the public trust the way Nordic health officials have . They also have no vaccine passports or mandates.

If you say the US can't get back till 75, 80 percent then we are never getting to normal.

Fauci just confirmed his position is Zero Covid. In other words, even with no deaths and low hospitalizations he wants to keep this game going.

His Zero Covid is as fringe scientifically as your denial of natural immunity.

So tell us all the restrictions people are living with in these states that have you believing they are authoritarian nightmares.

We have none here in Kansas that effect anyone's lives. Same with every state around us, even "liberal" Colorado.

[TLO]

Covid in retreat.
"Whatever this autumn brings, the worst of the pandemic is almost certainly behind us."https://t.co/AEQAWRwIHy @DLeonhardt pic.twitter.com/lVIdpMExNV

— Eric Topol (@EricTopol) October 4, 2021