Jose Bautista

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by tk13

Two more tonight. Now at 52 HR's. Now 11 HR's ahead of the next highest total. And 15 higher than 3rd place.

I'd like to see someone research if this was one of the most dominant HR seasons in history relative to the rest of the league.

I read a stat today that Bautista's 15 HR difference in-the AL was the most since Mickey Mantle in 1956 (who had 52 HR, 20 more than the guy behind him). But I haven't seen anything other than that.

If you went back any further, you'd run into Babe Ruth's dominance: http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...-leaders.shtml

[Pioli Zombie]

Bautista is not getting enough at-bats. He needs to be up at at the plate 10-15 times a game.- CP

[KC_Connection]

Since Sept 1, 2009, Bautista has 62 HR and a .265/.377/.621 line over 752 PA. If that's not establishing a new level of production, I don't know what is.

[tk13]

Move over Maris, Jose Bautista is the new home run king.

[KC_Connection]

I should add that I personally have no idea what Bautista is going to do next year. Nobody really does, not even the best scouts and stats people in the game. It makes sense to expect some regression to the mean, of course, but he's clearly going to be one of the tougher players to project heading into 2011.

Yet we have our resident baseball expert, Hamas, here so arrogantly sticking to his claim that this is a "fluke", "outlier," or "lucky" (though he seems to have backed have that one) without any real evidence or support. It's funny.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

KC Connection was probably driving the Greg Vaughn and Luis Gonzalez bandwagons, too.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

KC Connection was probably driving the Greg Vaughn and Luis Gonzalez bandwagons, too.

And the David Ortiz/Carlos Pena/Jayson Werth ones, too.

I wonder if the Red Sox would have won either of their 2 WS if they had traded Ortiz after his "fluke" year in 2003 (I remember some calling for them to sell high because he had never done anything like it in Minnesota).

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

And the David Ortiz/Carlos Pena/Jayson Werth ones, too.

I wonder if the Red Sox would have won either of their 2 WS if they had traded Ortiz after his "fluke" year in 2003 (I remember some calling for them to sell high because he had never done anything like it in Minnesota).

Ortiz, a known PED user, great example

Werth always had good power and never had the jump that Bautista had w/o demonstating prior power. Look at his 2004 season with the Dodgers. Also, Werth began trending upwards after overcoming a myriad of injuries and getting consistent PT. He was a 4th OF until '08.

Pena is the greatest comparison to Bautista, which is why I mentioned him. He's also never come within 90 points of his best slugging % season again, and he's a 1 outcome player. Congratulations, Jose Bautista's best comp is the Dominican Rob Deer.

Idiot.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Ortiz, a known PED user, great example

#1. What do PEDs have to do with anything? That's a weak way to get out of having to argue the point that Ortiz established a new level of production after years of being a .800 OPS player.
#2. And please, let's not be naive, Ortiz was using PEDs for years prior to his 2003 breakout year.
#3. What if Bautista is using PEDs right now (as I suspect he is)? Does that mean, in your mind, that he can keep the power up if he keeps taking the stuff (and why wouldn't he)?

Werth always had good power and never had the jump that Bautista had w/o demonstating prior power. Look at his 2004 season with the Dodgers.

Jayson Werth has been a .880 OPS hitter since he was acquired by the Phillies. That's a level that he never reached as a Jay or Dodger and a level he never showed he was capable of prior to 2008 (at the age of 29). His minor league OPS was even below .800.

Also, Werth began trending upwards after overcoming a myriad of injuries and getting consistent PT.
He was a 4th OF until '08.

Are you even paying attention to what you're writing? 4th OF, a lack of consistent playing time? Do you know who this sounds like?

Pena is the greatest comparison to Bautista, which is why I mentioned him. He's also never come within 90 points of his best slugging % season again, and he's a 1 outcome player. Congratulations, Jose Bautista's best comp is the Mexican Rob Deer.

Carlos Pena had an outlier year in 2007, but followed it up with a near .880 OPS the following two years. Again, that's a level he never showed he was capable of prior to 2007 (his age 29 year). And again, a perfect example of a player who established a new level of performance after several seasons of mediocrity.

Idiot.

The only idiot here is the closed-minded, defensive, arrogant, egotistical piece of shit that stubbornly refuses to admit he was wrong about Jose Bautista.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

21.3 isn't unusual for a power hitter. No one has suggested otherwise, dumb shit. It's unusual for someone whose career average was 13. Not 19, not 17, 13.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

21.3 isn't unusual for a power hitter. No one has suggested otherwise, dumb shit. It's unusual for someone whose career average was 13. Not 19, not 17, 13.

If Bautista has changed his swing significantly, as we know he has, why is his career HR/FB% even relevant to this discussion? The version of Bautista that put up a 13% HR/FB hasn't played since August of last season.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm wrong about Jose Bautista because of his one good year?

Oh and Werth's production pre-Phillies was about 700 ABs, not 1700 ABs. Again with specious bullshit.

Besides, the only one getting defensive here is the ****tard who somehow thinks that each Jose Bautista HR corresponds with a 10 cent raise he gets for operating the jizz mop.

But yes, PEDs have nothing to do with it, it's the fact that the baseball's were wound tighter, which is why Sammy Sosa went from hitting 25 HRs a year to 60 and why Bonds went from 35 to 70 and why Luis Gonzalez went from 15 to 57.

Yes, PEDs could never be an explanation for a sudden rise in performance, or anything. I'm sure Roger Clemens just had that career resurgence from working out.

Christ, you're delusional.

But hey, Matt Cassel once had B2B 400 yard games. GOAT!! We should have given him 600 million, not just 60. He clearly established himself. In no way should we ever use a sufficient amount of evidence as a way to predict future performance.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I'm wrong about Jose Bautista because of his one good year?

You said about 2 months ago that Bautista wouldn't keep this up and he has.

We're waiting...when is it gonna end?

Oh and Werth's production pre-Phillies was about 700 ABs, not 1700 ABs. Again with specious bullshit.

Jayson Werth had 2530 AB in the minors where he hit for a .796 OPS. Based on that, and his previous major league AB, no team believed in Jayson Werth until he came to the Phillies and established a new level of production (.880 OPS). The fact that you continue to deny that older players can establish these new levels is both hilarious and pathetic for someone who calls himself a baseball expert.

But yes, PEDs have nothing to do with it, it's the fact that the baseball's were wound tighter, which is why Sammy Sosa went from hitting 25 HRs a year to 60 and why Bonds went from 35 to 70 and why Luis Gonzalez went from 15 to 57.

Yes, PEDs could never be an explanation for a sudden rise in performance, or anything. I'm sure Roger Clemens just had that career resurgence from working out.

#1. I would be very surprised to find out that Roger Clemens only started using steroids in the mid 90s. I suspect he started during his Texas days in college. They aren't a sufficient explanation for his upswing, just as steroids aren't a sufficient explanation for Sosa, Bonds, or especially Gonzalez (what happened the following year...did he just decide to start listening to his conscience or something)?

#2. I'm not saying PEDs can't cause rises in performance. I just don't understand their relevance to the argument here, especially when it's widely assumed (and maybe even probable) that Bautista is using a PED.

But hey, Matt Cassel once had B2B 400 yard games. GOAT!! We should have given him 600 million, not just 60. He clearly established himself. In no way should we ever use a sufficient amount of evidence as a way to predict future performance.

Sorry, but 2 back-to-back 400 yard games is not 750 PA over 7 months with a 1.000 OPS.

[KC_Connection]

I've never understood, by the way, why people never suspect consistent performers of PED use. What if they've just been using PEDs since they entered the league? Like guys like ARod, Manny, and Pujols likely have?

[Hootie]

I don't see why Bautista can't hit 40 HR's next year...

he has good plate discipline and he waits for the pitcher to throw him something out over the plate...which is bound to happen for anyone...even Barry Bonds when he was putting up 1.400 OPS seasons...

The guy is going to be given every chance to succeed once again next year and I see NO reason why he can't hit 40...none whatsoever.