Chiefs Late night bullshit: Safety depth. - Page 4

Direckshun · 03-26-2012, 10:46 PM

This team needs a lot of different pieces in the draft, but one place that it's particularly hurting is for depth behind Eric Berry and Kendrick Lewis. My desire for Mark Barron in the draft notwithstanding, this is a damn good starting safety combo, but safety is always an injury prone position.

Add into that the prevalence of the Chiefs' subpackages, and extra safeties are necessary.

The backup safety position on this team is atrocious. Donald Washington and Rashard Langford will stay alive on this roster only by blowing shit up on special teams, and not by staying on the field during defensive snaps.

Jon McGraw is a serviceable guy because of his decent-enough instincts, but only at the less-physical position of free safety, and only in bits and pieces. He remains incredibly popular in the locker room, and I'm willing to accept that.

Now, safety is one of the weakest positions in this draft, but let's use this thread as an opportunity to talk about some of our favorite mid-to-late round safety prospects, since we can expect the Chiefs to pick up at least one in the draft.

Direckshun · 03-28-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

What these numbers tell me though, is that Kuechly is an athletic guy with speed, but he doesn't bust up a lot of plays.

He reminds of of Donnie Edwards, who made a lot of tackles because of his speed, but he wasn't a physical guy that knocked people on thir ass.

Defending the pass has become more and more important, but you still need to knock ball carriers on their ass to get into those passing situations, and Belcher is a thumper that does that, and he also takes on blockers that allows for DJ to make plays.

I'd rather take a corner, a pass rusher, or a safety.

What's the difference in knocking people on their ass and tackling someone?

milkman · 03-28-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

What's the difference in knocking people on their ass and tackling someone?

I'm talking about the difference between meeting someone head on and stopping them in their tracks, or running around blocks and taking them down from behind, or letting them drag you for a yard or two.

Anytime Donnie Edwards tackled someone, it looked like he was going for a piggyback ride.

ForeverChiefs58 · 03-28-2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

What these numbers tell me though, is that Kuechly is an athletic guy with speed, but he doesn't bust up a lot of plays.

He reminds of of Donnie Edwards, who made a lot of tackles because of his speed, but he wasn't a physical guy that knocked people on thir ass.

Defending the pass has become more and more important, but you still need to knock ball carriers on their ass to get into those passing situations, and Belcher is a thumper that does that, and he also takes on blockers that allows for DJ to make plays.

I'd rather take a corner, a pass rusher, or a safety.

Kuechly is like Donnie Edwards in that he goes sideline to sideline. Major difference is he can also run stride for stride with a speedy WR downfield, blanket a TE underneath and still have 20 tackles without getting worn down or tired. Unlike Edwards, it isn't easy getting past Kuechly with a screen or misdirection play.

BC didn't have him rush the QB, but with his speed and ability to get past blocks, I am sure he would be good at it. If they would have had him get after the QB he would probably be a top 5 pick.

Even though Kuechly is actually 20 pounds heavier than Belcher, he doesn't look like it or hit like it and make the jaring hits. I am not sure he can be taught to hit like that since he is known as a get them to the ground sure tackler. On the flipside, he is much better than Belcher in coverage. He will get you more INT's than FF.

There wasn't many times when he has to chase someone from behind, as they played a kind of read and react type of zone defense where everything is mostly in front of him unless he is in coverage.

He is super bright and loves to study football. Teams that played against him usually complain that it is like he knowns their plays as he is so good at sniffing out what the offense will try to do before they do it. He credits film study, but anyone who gets over 20 tackles in games is gonna seem superhuman.

Think of the playoff game against Baltimore. Would you rather have the TE's catching a lot of passes, and then getting a jarring hit, or would you rather have a LB that can blanket them and maybe get a chance to make a play on the ball?

Simply Red · 03-28-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Anytime Donnie Edwards tackled someone, it looked like he was going for a piggyback ride.

that bit was pretty funny. Plus Donnie Edwards was part white, that didn't help.

**BossChief** · 03-28-2012, 06:31 PM

Kuechly isnt Patrick Willis.

I dont care what the stats say.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 03-28-2012, 06:58 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...feties/page/33

This right here is why you don't listen to the Bleacher report. Lewis not even on that list.

jspchief · 03-28-2012, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I saw the stats you posted for tackles and forced fumbles for Kuechly in another thread, but the stat that I would be interested in would be the number of tackles for loss he made.

BC didn't really use him in a way that would account for a lot of tfl.

jspchief · 03-28-2012, 07:27 PM

People over rate Lewis imo.

It's like they remember all of his INTs, and none of the times he got totally burned.

I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, but he's probably the most damaging weak spot we have on our D.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad · 03-28-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspchief

People over rate Lewis imo.

It's like they remember all of his INTs, and none of the times he got totally burned.

I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, but he's probably the most damaging weak spot we have on our D.

Plus he's a terrible tackler. I'd replace Lewis before Belcher.

Titty Meat · 03-28-2012, 07:35 PM

I thought Lewis had improved last year.

milkman · 03-28-2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

I thought Lewis had improved last year.

He did, but he looks like he's reached pretty close to his ceiling.

Mr. Laz · 03-28-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...feties/page/33

This right here is why you don't listen to the Bleacher report. Lewis not even on that list.

Why would Lewis be listed?

He's so bad in coverage that we would rather put McGraw on a tightend than Lewis. He mediocre in run support.

He did one thing for us ... sat in centerfield and looks for the bad pass. The stats say Lewis had 10 PD's but i think i remember only 2 that i would consider really good plays. Carr and Flowers couldn't count on help from him down the sideline or to blow up the quick slant even though he stayed back.

Lewis got the flashy stat plays but not much else.

Now ... he's still young and might develop but so far he hasn't been anything special.

we could draft Barron and switch Berry to FS and be much stronger at Safety imo. Of course you have to worry about Barron staying healthy but he would bring some serious heat to the safety position.

**BossChief** · 03-28-2012, 08:00 PM

Ive mentioned it a couple times, but Lewis is a very similar player to Jerrod Page IMO.

Misses tackles...doesnt have the speed to catch up if beaten....is smart but can be fooled...makes some opportunistic picks, etc.

People seem ok with replacing Belcher and totally taking him off the field in favor of Kueckly...but seem unwilling to upgrade free safety when Lewis runs a 4.7 40.

Putting Berry at FS and selecting Barron to play SS and still having Lewis for sub packages is probably our best bet to upgrade our defense both short and long term.

Id much rather trade down for value, but if we are stuck and the blue chip guys are off the board, Barron would be one hell of a good "consolation prize" and would impact the run and pass defense.

**BossChief** · 03-28-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

Why would Lewis be listed?

He's so bad in coverage that we would rather put McGraw on a tightend than Lewis. He mediocre in run support.

He did one thing for us ... sat in centerfield and looks for the bad pass. The stats say Lewis had 10 PD's but i think i remember only 2 that i would consider really good plays. Carr and Flowers couldn't count on help from him down the sideline or to blow up the quick slant even though he stayed back.

Lewis got the flashy stat plays but not much else.

Now ... he's still young and might develop but so far he hasn't been anything special.

we could draft Barron and switch Berry to FS and be much stronger at Safety imo. Of course you have to worry about Barron staying healthy but he would bring some serious heat to the safety position.

Why would you have to worry about him staying healthy?

He played the last two years injured and played very well.

If Im making the pick and given the information available to us as fans, my top 3 picks are as follows:

1) Tanehill
2) Richardson
3) Barron
4) Pass rusher

I know some will laugh at having Tanehill as my top guy with admittedly not even seeing him play a whole game, but Ill take a chance at a quarterback with the ceiling of a franchise guy over anything else.

Titty Meat · 03-28-2012, 08:17 PM

I'd rather keep Berry at SS where he looked like one of the best players in the league. If it aint broke don't fix it.

03-26-2012, 10:46 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4123447	Late night bullshit: Safety depth. This team needs a lot of different pieces in the draft, but one place that it's particularly hurting is for depth behind Eric Berry and Kendrick Lewis. My desire for Mark Barron in the draft notwithstanding, this is a damn good starting safety combo, but safety is always an injury prone position. Add into that the prevalence of the Chiefs' subpackages, and extra safeties are necessary. The backup safety position on this team is atrocious. Donald Washington and Rashard Langford will stay alive on this roster only by blowing shit up on special teams, and not by staying on the field during defensive snaps. Jon McGraw is a serviceable guy because of his decent-enough instincts, but only at the less-physical position of free safety, and only in bits and pieces. He remains incredibly popular in the locker room, and I'm willing to accept that. Now, safety is one of the weakest positions in this draft, but let's use this thread as an opportunity to talk about some of our favorite mid-to-late round safety prospects, since we can expect the Chiefs to pick up at least one in the draft.
Posts: 59,325

03-28-2012, 06:31 PM	#50
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1404088	Kuechly isnt Patrick Willis. I dont care what the stats say. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,190

03-28-2012, 06:58 PM	#51
ShowtimeSBMVP Chiefs Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $3386009	http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...feties/page/33 This right here is why you don't listen to the Bleacher report. Lewis not even on that list.
Posts: 23,755

03-28-2012, 07:27 PM	#53
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	People over rate Lewis imo. It's like they remember all of his INTs, and none of the times he got totally burned. I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, but he's probably the most damaging weak spot we have on our D. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

03-28-2012, 07:35 PM	#55
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $1777558	I thought Lewis had improved last year.
Posts: 75,615

03-28-2012, 08:00 PM	#58
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1404088	Ive mentioned it a couple times, but Lewis is a very similar player to Jerrod Page IMO. Misses tackles...doesnt have the speed to catch up if beaten....is smart but can be fooled...makes some opportunistic picks, etc. People seem ok with replacing Belcher and totally taking him off the field in favor of Kueckly...but seem unwilling to upgrade free safety when Lewis runs a 4.7 40. Putting Berry at FS and selecting Barron to play SS and still having Lewis for sub packages is probably our best bet to upgrade our defense both short and long term. Id much rather trade down for value, but if we are stuck and the blue chip guys are off the board, Barron would be one hell of a good "consolation prize" and would impact the run and pass defense. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,190

03-28-2012, 08:17 PM	#60
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $1777558	I'd rather keep Berry at SS where he looked like one of the best players in the league. If it aint broke don't fix it.
Posts: 75,615