Pioli Deserves Props

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

The Poe pick is honestly a complete ****ing abortion and no one should be defending it right now.

You don't pick players with shit production at #11. You just ****ing don't. It's reeruned as hell.

Right now it feels like we drafted Poe because the idiot in charge ignored NT for 3 years, and he backed himself into a corner, and reached.

**** that pick. And this is coming from someone who defended Tyson Jackson for a season.

I see your concern, however, is a nt going to see a lot of statistical production? Is anybody going to be successful being moved all over the place and asked to fit in, rather than play to his strengths?

IMO, they felt they needed a big strong body to play at the weakest position of the defense. They went and got him. Obviously I think that trading down to get him would have been ideal, but I, nor you, don't know if that was a possibility. Obviously they felt if they moved they couldn't get him.

I can't fault that.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

I see your concern, however, is a nt going to see a lot of statistical production?

I didn't say statistical production. I said production.

He didn't play that well against shitty competition.

And FYI, even guys like Glenn Dorsey and Nick Fairley had good stats coming out. Dorsey had 69 tackles and 7 sacks his senior year. Fairley had 11.5 sacks as a senior.

Yeah, Poe isn't really in their mold, but he played all over the place, he wasn't a true NT. He's being tabbed to be a pass rusher in the pros already.

This guy had 5 sacks in 3 years. In C-USA.

****, Junior Siavii did more in college than this guy.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

The Poe pick is honestly a complete ****ing abortion and no one should be defending it right now.

You don't pick players with shit production at #11. You just ****ing don't. It's reeruned as hell.

Right now it feels like we drafted Poe because the idiot in charge ignored NT for 3 years, and he backed himself into a corner, and reached.

**** that pick. And this is coming from someone who defended Tyson Jackson for a season.

....and if he turns out to be a good player, nobody is going to give a ****. Look how many guys with "production" fail. Player development is everything.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by PGM

....and if he turns out to be a good player, nobody is going to give a ****. Look how many guys with "production" fail. Player development is everything.

Conventional wisdom says the pick is shitty.

So far Pioli has often bucked conventional wisdom and look at the results.

[Hammock Parties]

In the future, you might actually learn how to spell "you're."

[GoHuge]

Save everything you've all said over the last three days and look at it again in four years. Some are going to surprise, most will disappoint, but that's the nature of the draft. I don't really bother saying much about each guy we draft because we have no idea when/how/or if they are going to develop on the Sunday after the draft.

You all know this so why go batshit about it today? With the picks this regime had made along the O-line over the last 3 years (along with Winston) we could very well end up with a top-5 line very soon if not a top 3. I remember when (not long ago) the Chiefs were known as the best O-line in the NFL. A four year stretch in the 2000's and a huge part of the 90's. Those were some of the best Chiefs teams and I would love to get back to having even the national media talking about how good our line is. Unlike when we had the best O-line in the early 2000's we now have a defense that is extremely stout to go along with it and we won't have to score 40 points a game to win.

You can bitch about Cassel all you want, but it's not going to change anything for this year. He's going to have a well above average O-line protecting him which he's never had) with young and ascending players (except Lilja) and his supporting cast is very very good. He's got Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, Charles, Hillis, Boss, Moeaki, DMC, and we'll see if the rookie skill position players can show some flash.

If you have Manning or Brady you don't have to have as stout of an O-line as we are building, but we don't and it has been repeated time and again that this team wants to run the ball. There was nothing sexy about our first 3 draft picks, but they were our biggest positions of need. We had zero (quality) depth on the O-line and that was made very obvious with Richardson starting.

Poe is boom-or-bust and I don't think it's arguable, but if he works out it will make our very good defense even better because a dominant nose is the one piece this defense has lacked the most. We have some solid pieces on the D-line and will have to see if guys like Bailey can continue to get better. Our linebacking crew is excellent at three spots and we will see what a healthy Siler can bring to the table along with Belcher. Our secondary is a top-5 secondary with Berry back so I think we're going to be fine.

The QB position is our biggest issue/need/unknown. Which Cassel do we get? The 27-7 TD to INT Cassel or his normal 1/1 ratio? IDK, but in his 27 TD season the Chiefs were the number one rushing offense and did it with a much lesser O-line than what we will have this year and Charles was sharing the carries with broke dick TJ. I've got to believe (sure as hell hope) Baldwin can become a serious WR threat and the better our running game is it will only help him, Boss,TM, Bowe, DMC (used VERY sparingly), Breaston, etc. I think it's possible we will see Charles be better than he's ever been even if he's not 100% back yet because this will be by FAR the best line he has ever run behind..........that's not even debatable.

Other than Cassel still being the starter the Chiefs have upgraded or added quality depth at every position on offense the last 2 years. I don't think Cassel is a long term solution, but who was available this year that the Chiefs could have signed/drafted that was going to be able to step right in and take over and be better than Cassel? The best we could have done was draft a project or signed a lateral player. This team can win with Cassel at the QB if we stay relatively healthy, our O-line and running game are as stout as they should be, and our defense that is already top 10 makes another step up with Berry back and more experience under their belt. We just need Cassel to manage the game and not **** it all up with stupid decisions.........which has been shown to be a lot to ask for out of him. We look next year to try and somehow upgrade the QB position. Can't address everything in one off season.

Call me a homer or say I am delusional I don't care. I'm not saying we're a Super Bowl contender, but I will be extremely disappointed if we aren't in the playoffs as the AFC West Champs. I think we can do it even with Cassel at QB if he can just manage the game and not be a complete disaster. I don't think Manning and the Broncos are going to be nearly as good as everyone thinks they will be and I think we are a 10 plus win team if we stay relatively healthy. This roster can do it.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by GoHuge39

Save everything you've all said over the last three days and look at it again in four years. Some are going to surprise, most will disappoint, but that's the nature of the draft. I don't really bother saying much about each guy we draft because we have no idea when/how/or if they are going to develop on the Sunday after the draft.

This. I mean I know it's fun to arm-chair QB the draft and all. But I hope deep down most of us realize we have about 1/100th the information available to us as an NFL GM with a full scouting department. Obviously they can still get things very very wrong. But it's a pretty huge fallacy to think we could somehow make a better choice by anything but blind luck.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

This. I mean I know it's fun to arm-chair QB the draft and all. But I hope deep down most of us realize we have about 1/100th the information available to us as an NFL GM with a full scouting department. Obviously they can still get things very very wrong. But it's a pretty huge fallacy to think we could somehow make a better choice by anything but blind luck.

You really should read the book I mentioned earlier.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You really should read the book I mentioned earlier.

I didn't see the name of the book anywhere.

Also just to be clear, I'm not saying you can't judge coaching decisions, especially with a full year or more of results, or draft decisions after a few years.

[Trivers]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

This. I mean I know it's fun to arm-chair QB the draft and all. But I hope deep down most of us realize we have about 1/100th the information available to us as an NFL GM with a full scouting department. Obviously they can still get things very very wrong. But it's a pretty huge fallacy to think we could somehow make a better choice by anything but blind luck.

Careful. You are bringing logic into an emotion driven thread.

[BoneKrusher]

lets count all the things Pioli's done to deserve props.

1. Traded For Castle
2. Drafted T Jack
3. Hired Haley
4. Let Orton Walk (not a Franchise QB but better than anyone we have on the roster)
5. Drafted Poe when he should have worked a trade to at least get the third best QB in this years draft.

yeah Pioli deserves mucho props, if it wasnt form Herms great draft of 08 he would have been fired already.

[J Diddy]

Originally Posted by BoneKrusher

lets count all the things Pioli's done to deserve props.

1. Traded For Castle
2. Drafted T Jack
3. Hired Haley
4. Let Orton Walk (not a Franchise QB but better than anyone we have on the roster)
5. Drafted Poe when he should have worked a trade to at least get the third best QB in this years draft.

yeah Pioli deserves mucho props, if it wasnt form Herms great draft of 08 he would have been fired already.

1. Although it hasn't worked out, it could be worse. We could still have Thigpen at QB
2. Jackson is starting to play well. Everything I've read about d lineman confirms that it takes some time.
3. Haley was a bold move. He was a young OC from a Superbowl team. Complaining about this cracks me up.
4. Your love for Orton is duly noted. However, outside of those 3 games what has Orton shown. Orton is Matt Cassel
5. A move that would have taken a lot of picks to pull. Tbh, you're upset that we didn't throw away a bunch of picks to move up and take a quarterback who has only started a handful of games in college. and you're upset about the trade for cassel?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

1. Although it hasn't worked out, it could be worse. We could still have Thigpen at QB
2. Jackson is starting to play well. Everything I've read about d lineman confirms that it takes some time.
3. Haley was a bold move. He was a young OC from a Superbowl team. Complaining about this cracks me up.
4. Your love for Orton is duly noted. However, outside of those 3 games what has Orton shown. Orton is Matt Cassel
5. A move that would have taken a lot of picks to pull. Tbh, you're upset that we didn't throw away a bunch of picks to move up and take a quarterback who has only started a handful of games in college. and you're upset about the trade for cassel?

#1 - it's the one move that could throw Pioli's entire resume out the window. Which is why it's mind-numbing that he's so stubborn about it.
#2 - agreed. Jackson wasn't a great pick, but he was very good given the talent level of that draft class.
#3 - Haley helped this team a ton. I don't know that anyone can be critical of the hiring. I'm one of the few that's critical of the firing as well.
#4 - Orton > Cassel, and starting next year, a shitload cheaper. Bad move.
#5 - It wouldn't have taken a ton of picks to get Tannehill. I just don't get the hype with him. Tannehill felt like a QB of convenience. I think 2013 has potential to be a very deep QB class and, in that class, he could potentially be the 5th or 6th best.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

#1 - it's the one move that could throw Pioli's entire resume out the window. Which is why it's mind-numbing that he's so stubborn about it.
#2 - agreed. Jackson wasn't a great pick, but he was very good given the talent level of that draft class.
#3 - Haley helped this team a ton. I don't know that anyone can be critical of the hiring. I'm one of the few that's critical of the firing as well.
#4 - Orton > Cassel, and starting next year, a shitload cheaper. Bad move.
#5 - It wouldn't have taken a ton of picks to get Tannehill. I just don't get the hype with him. Tannehill felt like a QB of convenience. I think 2013 has potential to be a very deep QB class and, in that class, he could potentially be the 5th or 6th best.

#1 - I don't think he is stubborn about it, I think the options have still been limited after he made the mistake of trading for Cassel. Orton over Cassel? Sure but is that the long term answer? His decision to go to Dallas to be a backup right away in FA tells me all I need to know about the pussy. He doesn't even want to start. Do I wish they would make a bold move at QB? Hell yea but it needs to be for a Luck or RGIII type, not a project.

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by BoneKrusher

lets count all the things Pioli's done to deserve props.

1. Traded For Castle
2. Drafted T Jack
3. Hired Haley
4. Let Orton Walk (not a Franchise QB but better than anyone we have on the roster)
5. Drafted Poe when he should have worked a trade to at least get the third best QB in this years draft.

yeah Pioli deserves mucho props, if it wasnt form Herms great draft of 08 he would have been fired already.

1) We got Castle and Vrabel for a second round pick. BFD, it was worth a try.
2) No real comment on this one....
3) I kinda think he got thrown under the bus. I liked the try.
4) Who cares.
5)WOuldn't it be better to wait and see? I mean if Poe turns out to be beast you will be wrong on this one.


If that list of 5 things is the worst you can do, then you haven't really said much. This franchise was utter shit when Pioli took over. I personally like the way it seems to be going.