I've made up my mind...I know who I want at #15... - Page 4

htismaqe · 04-15-2005, 08:54 PM

Thomas Davis.

I realize I'm going to take alot of heat for this one but here's my logic:

1) We need a HEADHUNTER. This guy is probably the best pure tackler in the draft. He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

3) We need a WSLB who can cover. Davis is an OLB, playing mostly SLB in his career, but he also played his last season at FS and can cover WR's as well as TE's.

And before you start talking about tweeners, please do yourself a favor and read his bio...he's a LB.

http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com..._thomas00.html

Mr. Laz · 04-16-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Who's comparing him to Jack Lambert?

just wonder how pimping one player is allowed but not another

**PHOG** · 04-16-2005, 10:05 AM

If the CB that we(I) want is already gone, then trade down and grab him....

As has already been mentioned several times, any D pick would be good, (except DT IMO), but playing him (Davis) at LB in the NFL would have its growing pains....as any other draft pick is going to have the same pains. If he were to be utilized as an LB then fine, but puhleeeze don't play him as a safety.....

**Bowser** · 04-16-2005, 11:13 AM

Nice post, htis. And I'm inclined to agree.

Now for the love of God, change your avi!

Spicy McHaggis · 04-16-2005, 11:22 AM

I think that no matter where Davis lines up on the field he is the kind of player that is a difference maker. And as htis pointed out its less of a conversion for him to go back to LB then it would be to stay at safety. If Boulware can become the starting SS for Seattle after playing LB in his college career then Davis can easily convert back.

When it's all said and done after being in the Chiefs weight-training he'll probably play at 230-235 lb. That's fine with me as there are many LB's in that mold which have succeeded in the NFL. A playmaker who can run, cover and lay the wood. I ask for little else.

bricks · 04-16-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rufusmaqe

Davis is going to play LB in the NFL. I was listening to PFW show this morning and everybody is scouting him as an OLB right now. New Orleans is showing the most interest...

either or I don't mind as long as the guy can play. We could use either a FS or a LB.

bricks · 04-16-2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rufusmaqe

Thomas Davis.

He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

If there is a lot of truth in your statements, I'm all for grabbing this guy, and, not trading up for Johnson.

bricks · 04-16-2005, 11:30 AM

what I'm wondering is whether he stays the same weight or not, and, the Chiefs plan to use him at both LB and S. Give the team more options...which isn't a bad thing, versitility is good.

bricks · 04-16-2005, 11:50 AM

the article doesn't state much about his game, it just blabs on about his accomplishments. All it says is that he is an excellent tackler, especially in the open field. I noticed Georgia planned to use him as a LB originally, till there starting safety got hurt, and they we're forced to move Davis to safety. He played SLB. Think he can play WLB? I don't see how these scouts can compare him to Derrick Brooks when he hasn't even played WLB, and, was a safety for a majority of his career in college. He's too small to play LB in the NFL, needs to add 10 pounds.

philfree · 04-16-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rufusmaqe

Thomas Davis.

I realize I'm going to take alot of heat for this one but here's my logic:

1) We need a HEADHUNTER. This guy is probably the best pure tackler in the draft. He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

3) We need a WSLB who can cover. Davis is an OLB, playing mostly SLB in his career, but he also played his last season at FS and can cover WR's as well as TE's.

And before you start talking about tweeners, please do yourself a favor and read his bio...he's a LB.

http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com..._thomas00.html

I've been hot on Davis ever since I watched him play in the Bowl game the Dawgs played in. We get Surtain on board and then draft Davis to go along with Bell and Knight and our D wikk kick ass.

PhilFree:

Ebolapox · 04-16-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimNasium

TW always has his pet draft pick and always goes way overboard in pimping him. Several years back it was Ashley Lelie and no matter which thread you opened you got to hear about him.

TW pimping DJ is much like voyeur...errr... voyager pimping philip buchannansucks

--EB-

shaneo69 · 04-16-2005, 12:35 PM

I'd rather have Carlos Rogers in the 1st and Boley in the 2nd.

T. Davis reminds me of Cie Grant.

Ebolapox · 04-16-2005, 12:37 PM

cie grant... now that's a name I haven't heard in a while

-EB-

Coogs · 04-16-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHOG

If the CB that we(I) want is already gone, then trade down and grab him....

I don't think we can trade down and get Davis. Almost every mock I have seen has him going to the Saints. If not the Saints, the the Bengals. WE pick 15. Saints are 16, and the Bengals are 17. If Davis is the pick, 15 is most likely where it is at.

As far as learning curve, I don't see it. The guy is a football player. And he has played LB. He will be fine.

nascher · 04-16-2005, 03:06 PM

Get him Carl p. (aka Safety lover)

Coogs · 04-16-2005, 03:47 PM

I know this has been posted a couple of other times, but thought it fit here as well. So again (also from nfl.com)...

It's not always about the need for speed

By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst

(March 21, 2005) -- The NFL scouting combine is now a month behind us and many of the on-campus workouts are complete. There is a significant amount of measurable information gathered to help paint a picture of the athletic ability of many of the prospects. It goes without saying that how each and every one of the draft-eligible prospects perform on game tape is still the most important element to the final decisions, but I always like to dig inside the numbers looking for clues about each and every player.

Recently, I took the 40-yard dash times for players with a draftable grade and compared them to the results in the short-shuttle test. A player with a cumulative grade that indicates he should be one of the 250 athletes drafted in April indicates he's distinguished himself in some way on tape as a football player.

Then I looked for athletes with average-to-below average 40-yard times for their position who make up for the lack of long straight speed with exceptional quickness and change of direction. As we all know, unless you're on the kickoff team or running a "go" route at the wide receiver position, it's almost impossible to find a spot in a football game where you can identify a 40-yard dash. A lack of great straight speed can easily be offset by the ability to explode out of a stance, change direction in five yards, explode again for 10 yards and then change direction again, all while keeping your weight down. The short shuttle can be a much better indication of your ability to play football fast. I didn't say an indication of the ability to play football, but rather of the ability to play football fast.

I handled the speed training for the players when I was with the Jets for three years back in the early 90s. My general rule of thumb for comparing speed (the 40-yard dash time) to quickness and change of direction (the 20-yard short-shuttle test) was to take the 40 time and subtract the short-shuttle time and expect a 0.5 difference. For example, a player with a 5.0 40 time needs to run a 4.5 short shuttle to get the 0.5 differential. Simply stated, his speed and his quickness relate to each other. A man who runs a 4.4 40 and a 4.4 short shuttle is really a guy with straight-line speed who may not play very fast because of a lack of quickness. He is often referred to as a guy with "track speed." Conversely, an athlete who runs an average time of 4.7 in the 40 but can hit the short shuttle in 3.9 -- significantly better than the 0.5 differential -- can overcome his average speed with great quickness and change of direction.

Here are some very draftable players who demonstrated they are a lot quicker than they are fast and have overcome their pedestrian 40 times with a test that means a lot more to most football coaches:

NAME SCHOOL POS. 40 TIME SHORT SHUTTLE DIFFERENCE
1. JASON
BROWN NORTH CAROLINA C 5.40 4.51 0.89
2. DAVID POLLACK GEORGIA DE 4.75 3.90 0.85
3. CHRIS KEMOEATU UTAH OG 5.21 4.54 0.80
4. JASON
WHITE OKLAHOMA QB 4.99 4.19 0.80
5. BARRETT RUUD NEBRASKA LB 4.72 3.94 0.78
6. DAN
BUENNING WISCONSIN OG 5.33 4.59 0.74
7. MARCUS JOHNSON MISSISSIPPI OG 5.45 4.71 0.74
8. JOEL DREESSEN COLORADO STATE TE 4.72 4.01 0.71
9. CHARLIE
FRYE AKRON QB 4.79 4.08 0.71
10. THOMAS DAVIS GEORGIA S 4.59 3.97 0.62
11. CHRIS SPENCER MISSISSIPPI C 5.21 4.59 0.62
12. MARLIN JACKSON MICHIGAN S 4.53 3.96 0.57

There were a few others who beat the 0.5 differential in the time comparisons, but these are the dozen players who caught my eye that their quickness and change of direction (COD) trump the lack of ideal speed. Note that the offensive linemen who are all well over 300 pounds demonstrate an excellent ability to pull, get out to the linebacker level and move their feet in a short area, which is critical to doing their job on the football field. There's a reason David Pollack at just 6-foot-2 and 265 pounds with short arms had 36 sacks, 117 QB pressures and 58 tackles for a loss. He is relentless on film, but he also has extraordinary quickness and COD. I promise you a defensive end with 4.50 speed can't play as fast as David Pollack. Barrett Ruud is up against a number of linebackers with a faster 40 time but his field quickness is a big reason he finished his college career with 432 tackles.

Anyone can read numbers and tell you who the fastest or the strongest person is, but it's the ability to see the athletic potential and the playing speed along with the tools to compensate in one area or another, and for me seeing past an average 40 time because quickness and COD are present is an important clue about a prospect. No one is giving Oklahoma QB Jason White much of a chance to make it in the NFL. His knees may be questionable and his arm may be barely average, but he has quickness and has won on the college level, so at least don't get hung up on his 4.99 40 time when you see 4.19 in the short shuttle. A guy who can buy time in the pocket has a chance in this league.

04-15-2005, 08:54 PM
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	I've made up my mind...I know who I want at #15... Thomas Davis. I realize I'm going to take alot of heat for this one but here's my logic: 1) We need a HEADHUNTER. This guy is probably the best pure tackler in the draft. He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor. 2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks. 3) We need a WSLB who can cover. Davis is an OLB, playing mostly SLB in his career, but he also played his last season at FS and can cover WR's as well as TE's. And before you start talking about tweeners, please do yourself a favor and read his bio...he's a LB. http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com..._thomas00.html
Posts: 100,022

04-16-2005, 10:05 AM	#47
PHOG Dazed and Confused Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Somewhere Out There Casino cash: $1500500	If the CB that we(I) want is already gone, then trade down and grab him.... As has already been mentioned several times, any D pick would be good, (except DT IMO), but playing him (Davis) at LB in the NFL would have its growing pains....as any other draft pick is going to have the same pains. If he were to be utilized as an LB then fine, but puhleeeze don't play him as a safety.....
Posts: 15,927

04-16-2005, 11:13 AM	#48
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $2981616	Nice post, htis. And I'm inclined to agree. Now for the love of God, change your avi!
Posts: 101,378

04-16-2005, 11:22 AM	#49
Spicy McHaggis Keep 'er Movin' Join Date: Sep 2004 Casino cash: $9905359	I think that no matter where Davis lines up on the field he is the kind of player that is a difference maker. And as htis pointed out its less of a conversion for him to go back to LB then it would be to stay at safety. If Boulware can become the starting SS for Seattle after playing LB in his college career then Davis can easily convert back. When it's all said and done after being in the Chiefs weight-training he'll probably play at 230-235 lb. That's fine with me as there are many LB's in that mold which have succeeded in the NFL. A playmaker who can run, cover and lay the wood. I ask for little else. __________________ “We want players who are big, strong, smart, fast, tough and disciplined,” Pioli said, finally bringing an end to the era of Chiefs executives who searched desperately for players who are small, weak, stupid, slow, fragile and unruly.
Posts: 4,963

04-16-2005, 11:30 AM	#52
bricks Hey Teacher! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: land of maple syrup Casino cash: $9902559	what I'm wondering is whether he stays the same weight or not, and, the Chiefs plan to use him at both LB and S. Give the team more options...which isn't a bad thing, versitility is good.
Posts: 5,513

04-16-2005, 11:50 AM	#53
bricks Hey Teacher! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: land of maple syrup Casino cash: $9902559	the article doesn't state much about his game, it just blabs on about his accomplishments. All it says is that he is an excellent tackler, especially in the open field. I noticed Georgia planned to use him as a LB originally, till there starting safety got hurt, and they we're forced to move Davis to safety. He played SLB. Think he can play WLB? I don't see how these scouts can compare him to Derrick Brooks when he hasn't even played WLB, and, was a safety for a majority of his career in college. He's too small to play LB in the NFL, needs to add 10 pounds.
Posts: 5,513

04-16-2005, 12:35 PM	#56
shaneo69 Smug Weasel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bleachers at Busch Casino cash: $10004900	I'd rather have Carlos Rogers in the 1st and Boley in the 2nd. T. Davis reminds me of Cie Grant. __________________ "I like Chiefs president Carl Peterson. I respect his business savvy. I envy his management skills and his penchant never to be driven by the whims of popularity. I admire his willingness to take responsibility for decisions that don’t work out the way he would have wanted." - Rufus, from KCChiefs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4,910

04-16-2005, 12:37 PM	#57
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $1549903	cie grant... now that's a name I haven't heard in a while -EB-
Posts: 26,440

04-16-2005, 03:06 PM	#59
nascher Veteran Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hamburg Germany Casino cash: $9994980	Get him Carl p. (aka Safety lover)
Posts: 1,057

04-16-2005, 03:47 PM	#60
Coogs In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Northern Kansas Casino cash: $1064349	I know this has been posted a couple of other times, but thought it fit here as well. So again (also from nfl.com)... It's not always about the need for speed By Pat Kirwan NFL.com Senior Analyst (March 21, 2005) -- The NFL scouting combine is now a month behind us and many of the on-campus workouts are complete. There is a significant amount of measurable information gathered to help paint a picture of the athletic ability of many of the prospects. It goes without saying that how each and every one of the draft-eligible prospects perform on game tape is still the most important element to the final decisions, but I always like to dig inside the numbers looking for clues about each and every player. Recently, I took the 40-yard dash times for players with a draftable grade and compared them to the results in the short-shuttle test. A player with a cumulative grade that indicates he should be one of the 250 athletes drafted in April indicates he's distinguished himself in some way on tape as a football player. Then I looked for athletes with average-to-below average 40-yard times for their position who make up for the lack of long straight speed with exceptional quickness and change of direction. As we all know, unless you're on the kickoff team or running a "go" route at the wide receiver position, it's almost impossible to find a spot in a football game where you can identify a 40-yard dash. A lack of great straight speed can easily be offset by the ability to explode out of a stance, change direction in five yards, explode again for 10 yards and then change direction again, all while keeping your weight down. The short shuttle can be a much better indication of your ability to play football fast. I didn't say an indication of the ability to play football, but rather of the ability to play football fast. I handled the speed training for the players when I was with the Jets for three years back in the early 90s. My general rule of thumb for comparing speed (the 40-yard dash time) to quickness and change of direction (the 20-yard short-shuttle test) was to take the 40 time and subtract the short-shuttle time and expect a 0.5 difference. For example, a player with a 5.0 40 time needs to run a 4.5 short shuttle to get the 0.5 differential. Simply stated, his speed and his quickness relate to each other. A man who runs a 4.4 40 and a 4.4 short shuttle is really a guy with straight-line speed who may not play very fast because of a lack of quickness. He is often referred to as a guy with "track speed." Conversely, an athlete who runs an average time of 4.7 in the 40 but can hit the short shuttle in 3.9 -- significantly better than the 0.5 differential -- can overcome his average speed with great quickness and change of direction. Here are some very draftable players who demonstrated they are a lot quicker than they are fast and have overcome their pedestrian 40 times with a test that means a lot more to most football coaches: NAME SCHOOL POS. 40 TIME SHORT SHUTTLE DIFFERENCE 1. JASON BROWN NORTH CAROLINA C 5.40 4.51 0.89 2. DAVID POLLACK GEORGIA DE 4.75 3.90 0.85 3. CHRIS KEMOEATU UTAH OG 5.21 4.54 0.80 4. JASON WHITE OKLAHOMA QB 4.99 4.19 0.80 5. BARRETT RUUD NEBRASKA LB 4.72 3.94 0.78 6. DAN BUENNING WISCONSIN OG 5.33 4.59 0.74 7. MARCUS JOHNSON MISSISSIPPI OG 5.45 4.71 0.74 8. JOEL DREESSEN COLORADO STATE TE 4.72 4.01 0.71 9. CHARLIE FRYE AKRON QB 4.79 4.08 0.71 10. THOMAS DAVIS GEORGIA S 4.59 3.97 0.62 11. CHRIS SPENCER MISSISSIPPI C 5.21 4.59 0.62 12. MARLIN JACKSON MICHIGAN S 4.53 3.96 0.57 There were a few others who beat the 0.5 differential in the time comparisons, but these are the dozen players who caught my eye that their quickness and change of direction (COD) trump the lack of ideal speed. Note that the offensive linemen who are all well over 300 pounds demonstrate an excellent ability to pull, get out to the linebacker level and move their feet in a short area, which is critical to doing their job on the football field. There's a reason David Pollack at just 6-foot-2 and 265 pounds with short arms had 36 sacks, 117 QB pressures and 58 tackles for a loss. He is relentless on film, but he also has extraordinary quickness and COD. I promise you a defensive end with 4.50 speed can't play as fast as David Pollack. Barrett Ruud is up against a number of linebackers with a faster 40 time but his field quickness is a big reason he finished his college career with 432 tackles. Anyone can read numbers and tell you who the fastest or the strongest person is, but it's the ability to see the athletic potential and the playing speed along with the tools to compensate in one area or another, and for me seeing past an average 40 time because quickness and COD are present is an important clue about a prospect. No one is giving Oklahoma QB Jason White much of a chance to make it in the NFL. His knees may be questionable and his arm may be barely average, but he has quickness and has won on the college level, so at least don't get hung up on his 4.99 40 time when you see 4.19 in the short shuttle. A guy who can buy time in the pocket has a chance in this league.
Posts: 21,665