The #1 reason CP should say YES to Al Saunders - (And the main reason he won't)

[B_Ambuehl]

Forget about the fact that he's coordinated the top offense in the nfl the last 4 years. Forget the fact that he's obviously the best candidate available and already on the staff. Forget the fact that whether he stays or goes could decide whether hall of famers on the offensive line stay or go.

The real reason Saunders should be named head coach is right here. The real reason Saunders WON'T be named head coach is also right here as well.

This was from last summer and I bookmarked it for future reference.

Some of you may recall a guy from the coalition by the name of "former db" from training camp last year. He's a media guy and former football player from Pittsburgh who is also a die hard chiefs fan. He covered the Chiefs training camp last year and provided some really good interviews and info. Anyway, he had this to say about a conversation with Frank Ganz last summer:

http://www.chiefscoalition.com/Forum...=29295&hl=ganz

Some of you already know I'm up here in Pittsburgh. Frank Gantz Sr. lives here too and we're very familiar with each other because he is, of course the former coach and he knows me from my job as a television reporter.

Now that thats out of the way, I spotted Gantz and his wife in a grocery store, Whole Foods (bunch of healthy stuff).
He was wearing Chiefs shorts, t-shirt and cap, he made me laugh.

Anyway here are some of the things he shared with me based on the conversations he has with Vermeil about three times a week.

NEW COACH:
Gantz believes Herman Edwards will get strong consideration as the next Chiefs head coach, for a couple of reasons. First, he says head coaches wear out their welcome very fast, even if they're winners. Most importantly, he says the Chiefs front office is enamored with Edwards. Al Saunders will be considered too HOWEVER... HOWEVER, Saunders and Carl Peterson are the two primary parities in regards to the political in-fighting within the organziation. Gantz says the Saunders doesn't back down to Peterson, gets in his face and will tell him his ideas are wrong. They don't share the same philosophy in regards to player evaluations either. I got the strong impression, and Gantz feels this too, that Saunders would be the person to knock Peterson's ego sideways. So Gantz wouldn't be surpirsed if Saunders is passed over as Vermeil's successor.

LARRY JOHNSON:
He says the Chiefs are very sorry Derrick Blaylock is gone. They say that Larry Johnson can't do nearly as many things as Blaylock. They must reconfigure a lot of packages minimize Johnson's short-comings. Gantz says Johson can run, but there's a lot more to the game than just running the rock.

BOOMER GRIGSBY:
May be a starter. Gantz and I had fun talking about the MLB position, as does everyone else. Vermeil told him that Boomer is awesome and that Vermeil isn't letting on to how well this guy REALLY is to the media. Apparently, Boomer is ALWAYS, ALWAYS in position to make the tackle and his technique is flawless. Here's the funny part of our conversation, Gantz asked me why did Grigsby last until the 5th round. I'm like, DUHHHHH!!! He laughed like hell. Gantz and I both think the battle at MLB is between Boomer and Scanlon. He really likes Kawitka Mitchell but it doesn't seem like he's the answer. Everybody is caught up with Boomer's mentality and core toughness to play the position. I informed Gantz of Boomer's gymnastics background and he was even further impressed with the kid.

KENDRELL BELL:
He's NOT healthy from what Vermeil shared with Gantz. Now I thought Bell came back to practice after straining his groin. Perhaps Vermeil is keeping his health undercover but Gantz' voice was noticably grim when talking about Bell's health.
I just hope he is 100 percent by training camp.

GANTZ:
We plan on bumping into each other at training camp because Vermeil asked him to address the team and Gantz is excited to do so. He and I both believe the Chiefs were brilliant in drafting the punter in the third round. Now, while we talked for about 20 minutes, his wife was smoothly filling the cart. She's a wonderful lady, very understanding of two football nuts talking Chiefs football at the deli counter.

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by Laz

that's what has to happens when you have the 2 best RB's in the league on the same team.

Priest, even when healthy at the beginning of the season, is no longer an elite back in this league. The fact that he was starting in front of LJ says loads about DV/AS ability to evaluate talent.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

Funny that many feel his blocking ended up costing this team a win and a playoff spot.

You must be talking about the Dallas game. You can place the blame squarely on the _efense for that loss. If your D cannot hold an opponent in crunchtime, you do not deserve a play-off berth. All we had to do was stop them on that drive, and NOONE would've talking about the missed LJ block. Blaming LJ for missing the play-offs, while he's rushed 1500+ yards, is just plain ****ing stoopid...

[B_Ambuehl]

Well of course you could blame the defense yet at the same time if Priest or Richardson were in the game there's no way the Chiefs give up a sack and 80 yard fumble to a Scott Fujita and lose the football game. It's just funny that this was brought up by talked about during the offseason and came to fruition vs Dallas. The same thing also happened vs Buffalo but nobody talks about it because themedia didn't pick up on it....but I did. It's been so bad that the Chiefs have to take LJ out on anything except for play action passing.

[tk13]

Yeah, no surprise there. Carl has even said things in the media before to kinda insinuate him and Al don't get along. I have zero faith Al will even be considered.

And as much as people wanna complain about it, he was right about LJ's blocking all along. We had an all world RB and a great 3rd down type back, we had the luxury of trying to motivate LJ to learn how to block before putting him in. I don't think Al hates him though, heck, right now he's using LJ at a record pace... Al has proved a lot to me by doing that, he's not let his ego get in the way one bit, and he's using our best weapon to win us ballgames... we never ran Priest this hard.

That said, Al even took the time to go out to Penn State this offseason to talk to LJ's dad and LJ and try to straight things out. He's made the effort, a lot of coaches would not do that, and they don't have to like each other, just co-exist.

And you'd be real hard pressed to convince me there's anyone in the entire freaking universe that is more sick of watching our defense ruin everything our offense has accomplished...

I'm not sure Al is my #1 pick for a head coach, but he's definitely in the top 5, and it's going to piss me off to no end if Carl doesn't even consider him. Everybody goes on about this coordinator, and that coordinator, when we've got maybe the best coordinator in the entire league on our OWN TEAM, a guy who has been a part of some incredibly successful offenses and has a great resume. I think the guy deserves a shot, somewhere. If not here, I hope he gets it, and does well.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

CP has had like one good draft pick in the last 5 or 6 years and Derrick Johnson doesn't really count. How many defensive tackles has he drafted?

That's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. DICK VERMEIL was the guy that wanted Ryan Sims. He spent 3 or 4 days in NC talking to his old buddy John Bunting.

When draft picks work, Dick Vermeil drafted them. When they suck, it must have been Peterson.

Fact is, Peterson has ALWAYS deferred to his coaches. It's pretty easy to see when you compare Marty's drafts to Gunther's and Vermeil's -- the coaches got the guys they wanted.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

Well of course you could blame the defense yet at the same time if Priest or Richardson were in the game there's no way the Chiefs give up a sack and 80 yard fumble to a Scott Fujita and lose the football game. It's just funny that this was brought up by talked about during the offseason and came to fruition vs Dallas. The same thing also happened vs Buffalo but nobody talks about it because themedia didn't pick up on it....but I did. It's been so bad that the Chiefs have to take LJ out on anything except for play action passing.

Richardson was beaten later in the Dallas game and was beaten again this weekend against SD. The difference is that Trent didn't drop the ball.

To say it NEVER would have happened is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by tk13

Yeah, no surprise there. Carl has even said things in the media before to kinda insinuate him and Al don't get along. I have zero faith Al will even be considered.

And as much as people wanna complain about it, he was right about LJ's blocking all along. We had an all world RB and a great 3rd down type back, we had the luxury of trying to motivate LJ to learn how to block before putting him in. I don't think Al hates him though, heck, right now he's using LJ at a record pace... Al has proved a lot to me by doing that, he's not let his ego get in the way one bit, and he's using our best weapon to win us ballgames... we never ran Priest this hard.

That said, Al even took the time to go out to Penn State this offseason to talk to LJ's dad and LJ and try to straight things out. He's made the effort, a lot of coaches would not do that, and they don't have to like each other, just co-exist.

And you'd be real hard pressed to convince me there's anyone in the entire freaking universe that is more sick of watching our defense ruin everything our offense has accomplished...

I'm not sure Al is my #1 pick for a head coach, but he's definitely in the top 5, and it's going to piss me off to no end if Carl doesn't even consider him. Everybody goes on about this coordinator, and that coordinator, when we've got maybe the best coordinator in the entire league on our OWN TEAM, a guy who has been a part of some incredibly successful offenses and has a great resume. I think the guy deserves a shot, somewhere. If not here, I hope he gets it, and does well.

well said

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

Are you saying that the way to get rid of Peterson is to bring in coaches who will do *worse* then Saunders would so that CP will eventually be run off?

No.

I'm saying Saunders will likely give us the same thing we had under the Vermeil era. We'll have a team that's good enough to give us hope every year, and keep enough fans in the stands to keep Peterson's job.

However, going in a different direction gives us a lot better chance at change. A new coach could be terrible, which would hopefully finally get Peterson fired. A new coach be awesome, building a great team, in which case I don't care about Peterson. Or a new coach could build another middle of the road Marty/Vermeil team.

Bringing in a new coach gives this team a lot more opportunity for change, IMO. Part of the risk is negative change, but even that has the potential silver lining of getting CP fired. Worst case scenario is probably mediocrity once again.

Like I said, if you're content with the middle of the road football we've seen for the last 15+ years, then Saunders is your man. But if you're like me, and ready for something different, then we need to look elsewhere. i realize the risk, but even if the next coach is a failure, I have my theory on why that would be better in the long run.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Laz

ya think so?

i always got the impression that the didn't really think Saunders was HC material.

So far he's been linked to KC and Detroit.

We're in elite company.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by tk13

Yeah, no surprise there. Carl has even said things in the media before to kinda insinuate him and Al don't get along. I have zero faith Al will even be considered.

And as much as people wanna complain about it, he was right about LJ's blocking all along. We had an all world RB and a great 3rd down type back, we had the luxury of trying to motivate LJ to learn how to block before putting him in. I don't think Al hates him though, heck, right now he's using LJ at a record pace... Al has proved a lot to me by doing that, he's not let his ego get in the way one bit, and he's using our best weapon to win us ballgames... we never ran Priest this hard.

That said, Al even took the time to go out to Penn State this offseason to talk to LJ's dad and LJ and try to straight things out. He's made the effort, a lot of coaches would not do that, and they don't have to like each other, just co-exist.

And you'd be real hard pressed to convince me there's anyone in the entire freaking universe that is more sick of watching our defense ruin everything our offense has accomplished...

I'm not sure Al is my #1 pick for a head coach, but he's definitely in the top 5, and it's going to piss me off to no end if Carl doesn't even consider him. Everybody goes on about this coordinator, and that coordinator, when we've got maybe the best coordinator in the entire league on our OWN TEAM, a guy who has been a part of some incredibly successful offenses and has a great resume. I think the guy deserves a shot, somewhere. If not here, I hope he gets it, and does well.

How many coordinators have success as head coach of the SAME team they were coordinator of? There's got to be some reason it's so rare.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by jspchief

No.

I'm saying Saunders will likely give us the same thing we had under the Vermeil era. We'll have a team that's good enough to give us hope every year, and keep enough fans in the stands to keep Peterson's job.

However, going in a different direction gives us a lot better chance at change. A new coach could be terrible, which would hopefully finally get Peterson fired. A new coach be awesome, building a great team, in which case I don't care about Peterson. Or a new coach could build another middle of the road Marty/Vermeil team.

Bringing in a new coach gives this team a lot more opportunity for change, IMO. Part of the risk is negative change, but even that has the potential silver lining of getting CP fired. Worst case scenario is probably mediocrity once again.

Like I said, if you're content with the middle of the road football we've seen for the last 15+ years, then Saunders is your man. But if you're like me, and ready for something different, then we need to look elsewhere. i realize the risk, but even if the next coach is a failure, I have my theory on why that would be better in the long run.

Good post.

This is what it comes down to for me:

We tried this before. We elevated a successful coordinator to HC and it was a miserable failure.

Al Saunders may be a great coach some day. I'm just tired of the status quo. It's time to do something new, no matter how risky.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

Well of course you could blame the defense yet at the same time if Priest or Richardson were in the game there's no way the Chiefs give up a sack and 80 yard fumble to a Scott Fujita and lose the football game. It's just funny that this was brought up by talked about during the offseason and came to fruition vs Dallas. The same thing also happened vs Buffalo but nobody talks about it because themedia didn't pick up on it....but I did. It's been so bad that the Chiefs have to take LJ out on anything except for play action passing.

The dude is gonna end up 1600+ rushing yards. How about bitching about something OTHER than something that produces results on the field. Our D sucks, and is inconsistant. Period. THAT is what is keeping us out of the play-offs. They laid a GIGANTIC ****ing egg in NY. If we had no LJ, we'd be sitting at 4-11...

[tk13]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

How many coordinators have success as head coach of the SAME team they were coordinator of? There's got to be some reason it's so rare.

Is it that rare? George Seifert was very successful in San Fran. Mike Sherman made his impression Green Bay pretty much, he's been pretty successful. Bill Callahan's team flamed out, but not before he took them to a Super Bowl, something we could only dream of at this point. Mike Martz isn't my favorite coach, but he's had success. Same thing as Mike Tice, don't like him, but he's had more success than we've had. Even Bill Belichick coached in New England, went away for a couple years, then came back, his ties with the organization as an assistant playing a role there, and he's been pretty successful. I don't think there's really any hard evidence to say taking over a team you were already a coordinator for is a recipe for disaster.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Good post.

This is what it comes down to for me:

We tried this before. We elevated a successful coordinator to HC and it was a miserable failure.

Al Saunders may be a great coach some day. I'm just tired of the status quo. It's time to do something new, no matter how risky.

Well said...

[tk13]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Good post.

This is what it comes down to for me:

We tried this before. We elevated a successful coordinator to HC and it was a miserable failure.

Al Saunders may be a great coach some day. I'm just tired of the status quo. It's time to do something new, no matter how risky.

That's just a defeatist attitude. We did it before and it didn't work, so it can't work again. Thinking with your emotions instead of your brain.