Defense attorneys: DNA testing finds no match in Duke lacrosse case

[BIG_DADDY]

What amazes me is how many times these accusations are found to be untrue. Some one was telling me the other day that over 70% of all alleged rapes are lies. Of course I don't have anything to back that up with without doing some research first. The President of Duke should be fired over this. It's scary what women can get by with now. When one whores word carries more weight than an entire house full of College students we are way over the line IMO.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

DURHAM, N.C. (AP) -- DNA testing failed to connect any members of the Duke University lacrosse team to the alleged rape of a stripper, attorneys for the athletes said Monday.

Citing DNA test results delivered by the state crime lab to police and prosecutors a few hours earlier, the attorneys said the test results prove their clients did not sexually assault and beat a stripper hired to perform at a March 13 team party.


No charges have been filed in the case.

"No DNA material from any young man was present on the body of this complaining woman," said defense attorney Wade Smith.

The alleged victim, a 27-year-old student at a nearby college, told police she and another woman were hired to dance at the party. The woman told police that three men at the party dragged her into a bathroom, choked her, raped her and sodomized her.

Authorities ordered 46 of the 47 players on Duke's lacrosse team to submit DNA samples to investigators. Because the woman said her attackers were white, the team's sole black player was not tested.

District Attorney Mike Nifong stopped speaking with reporters last week after initially talking openly about the case, including stating publicly that he was confident a crime occurred. He went on to say he would have other evidence to make his case should the DNA analysis prove inconclusive or fail to match a member of the team.

Smith said Nifong now has the evidence needed to change his mind.

"He doesn't have to do it," Smith said of filing charges. "He is a man with discretion. He doesn't have to do it, and we hope that he won't."

Nifong's assistant said earlier Monday the prosecutor would not comment on the findings. North Carolina Central University, where the alleged victim is a student, said after the results were released that the prosecutor would appear at a campus forum on Tuesday to discuss the case.

Attorney Joe Cheshire, who represents one of the team's captains, said the report indicated authorities took DNA samples from all over the alleged victim's body, including under her fingernails, and from her possessions, such as her cell phone and her clothes.

"They swabbed about every place they could possibly swab from her, in which there could be any DNA," he said.

Cheshire said even if the alleged attackers used a condom, it's likely there would have been some DNA evidence found suggesting an assault took place. He said in this case, the report states there was no DNA on her to indicate that she had sex of any type recently.

"The experts will tell you that if there was a condom used they would still be able to pick up DNA, latex, lubricant and all other types of things to show that -- and that's not here," Cheshire said.

Stan Goldman, who teaches criminal law, evidence and criminal procedure at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, said the DNA results don't mean that Nifong can't go forward with the case -- but the test results make a successful prosecution much harder.

"Isn't the absence of DNA evidence, given the way the victim has described the crime, in and of itself almost enough to raise a reasonable doubt?" he said. "That's all the defense has to do."

Robert Archer, whose son, Breck, is a member of the lacrosse team, said the test results only confirmed for parents what they already knew.

"I know the kids on the team and I know they're innocent," said Archer, of East Quogue, N.Y.

[Lzen]

District attorney says he will not abandon investigation involving Duke University's lacrosse team

TIM WHITMIRE
Associated Press Writer

Joseph B. Cheshire V, lawyer for one of the accused Duke lacrosse players speaks to the media outside the Durham County Judicial Building in Durham, N.C., Monday, April 10, 2006. Citing DNA test results delivered by the state crime lab to police and prosecutors a few hours earlier, the attorneys said the test results prove their clients did not sexually assault and beat a stripper hired to perform at a March 13 team party. (AP Photo/Gerry Broome)

DURHAM, N.C. — Durham County's chief prosecutor said Tuesday he will not abandon his investigation of allegations that an exotic dancer was raped and beaten at a party thrown by members of Duke University's lacrosse team.

"A lot has been said in the press, particularly by some attorneys yesterday, that this case should go away," District Attorney Mike Nifong said at a community forum. "My presence here means that this case is not going away."

On Monday, attorneys representing members of the lacrosse team said DNA from the 46 players tested did not match evidence collected from the woman who says she was raped.

"No DNA from any young man tested was found anywhere on or about this woman," defense attorney Wade Smith said Monday.

He said he hoped Nifong would drop the investigation.

No charges have been filed in the case, but Nifong has said he believes a crime occurred at the March 13 party, which according to court records was attended only by lacrosse players. The woman said her attackers were white, so DNA testing was done on every white member of the team.

Nifong, who has said he doesn't necessarily need DNA evidence to prosecute, was calmly defiant at Tuesday's forum, attended by about 700 people on the campus of North Carolina Central University, the historically black university a few miles from Duke where the alleged victim is a student.

"The fact is that this case is proceeding the way a case should proceed," Nifong said to applause from the crowd.

The 27-year-old woman told police she and another woman were hired to dance at the party and that three men there dragged her into a bathroom, choked her, raped her and sodomized her. The allegations led to days of protests on and off the Duke campus.

Robert Archer, whose son Breck is a junior on the lacrosse team, said that while it is Nifong's prerogative to pursue the case if he so chooses, it would be a waste of time.

"I know the kids on the team, and I know they're innocent. We knew it from the start," Archer said by phone from his home in East Quogue, N.Y.

Court experts not connected with the Duke case cautioned that the DNA results could make prosecution difficult, but not impossible.

"There's an old saying that the absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence," said Peter Neufeld, co-founder and co-director of the Innocence Project, a nonprofit legal clinic.

A doctor and forensic sexual assault nurse examined the woman and found evidence consistent with a rape having occurred, police documents show.

Nifong said Tuesday that in 75 to 80 percent of all sexual assault cases, there is no DNA evidence.

"DNA results can often be helpful, but you know, I've been doing this a long time, and for most of the years I've been doing this we didn't have DNA," he said. "We had to deal with sexual assault cases the good old fashioned way. Witnesses got on the stand and told what happened to them."

Loyola Law School professor Stan Goldman agreed that DNA evidence is not necessary to win a conviction but said Nifong would have a lot to overcome without it.

"In this day and age, it's the 'CSI' effect," he said, referring to the popular "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" series on TV. "If you don't find the evidence, then maybe it's not the guy. In 'CSI,' they always find the evidence."

Defense attorney Bill Thomas said authorities found none of the alleged victim's DNA in the bathroom where she told police she was attacked.

"Our experts tell us that being gang-raped by three men would leave DNA material to be examined," Thomas said.

Goldman said the failure to find any matching DNA evidence, is "not the end of the case, but it's kind of damning to the prosecution case."

"Isn't the absence of DNA evidence, given the way the victim has described the crime, in and of itself almost enough to raise a reasonable doubt?" Goldman asked. "That's all the defense has to do."

[BIG_DADDY]

Here are some other great examples of why males deserve what we get in this country on this subject. These are coming righ from our own BB.

Originally Posted by leviw

How bout Kobe's Colorado ho? Pretty much the same thing. She obviously didn't make the whole thing up, but she sure shut up pretty quickly.

I guess you missed this part.
Cheshire said even if the alleged attackers used a condom, it's likely there would have been some DNA evidence found suggesting an assault took place. He said in this case, the report states there was no DNA on her to indicate that she had sex of any type recently.

"The experts will tell you that if there was a condom used they would still be able to pick up DNA, latex, lubricant and all other types of things to show that -- and that's not here," Cheshire said.

Originally Posted by BigRock

Just because the defense lawyers are saying this doesn't mean that it's true. What else are they going to say, "yep, my client splooged all over this broad"?

Yea the defense lawyer is going to make up and lie about the results of the DNA evidence. Give me a friggen break.

Then we have the woman on BB refering back to the obvious.

Originally Posted by Katipan

Sodomy with no indicating tears or stretching?

Those rapists had little weenies.

Thank you Katipan.

For the life of me I have no idea why people presume guilt when it comes to rape in this country but we sure do.

[Lzen]

Big Daddy, I can't look at that link you posted while at work. Can you just give us a summary of what it is? I have a very hard time believing a stripper simply for the nature of her work and what it can lead to, willingly or otherwise. I think that would be a tough thing to prove. But the one thing that gets me is the part I bolded in the article in my last post.

[leviw]

Poor Kobe was obviously a victim. Probably never touched her.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Lzen

District attorney says he will not abandon investigation involving Duke University's lacrosse team

TIM WHITMIRE
Associated Press Writer

Joseph B. Cheshire V, lawyer for one of the accused Duke lacrosse players speaks to the media outside the Durham County Judicial Building in Durham, N.C., Monday, April 10, 2006. Citing DNA test results delivered by the state crime lab to police and prosecutors a few hours earlier, the attorneys said the test results prove their clients did not sexually assault and beat a stripper hired to perform at a March 13 team party. (AP Photo/Gerry Broome)

DURHAM, N.C. — Durham County's chief prosecutor said Tuesday he will not abandon his investigation of allegations that an exotic dancer was raped and beaten at a party thrown by members of Duke University's lacrosse team.

"A lot has been said in the press, particularly by some attorneys yesterday, that this case should go away," District Attorney Mike Nifong said at a community forum. "My presence here means that this case is not going away."

On Monday, attorneys representing members of the lacrosse team said DNA from the 46 players tested did not match evidence collected from the woman who says she was raped.

"No DNA from any young man tested was found anywhere on or about this woman," defense attorney Wade Smith said Monday.

He said he hoped Nifong would drop the investigation.

No charges have been filed in the case, but Nifong has said he believes a crime occurred at the March 13 party, which according to court records was attended only by lacrosse players. The woman said her attackers were white, so DNA testing was done on every white member of the team.

Nifong, who has said he doesn't necessarily need DNA evidence to prosecute, was calmly defiant at Tuesday's forum, attended by about 700 people on the campus of North Carolina Central University, the historically black university a few miles from Duke where the alleged victim is a student.

"The fact is that this case is proceeding the way a case should proceed," Nifong said to applause from the crowd.

The 27-year-old woman told police she and another woman were hired to dance at the party and that three men there dragged her into a bathroom, choked her, raped her and sodomized her. The allegations led to days of protests on and off the Duke campus.

Robert Archer, whose son Breck is a junior on the lacrosse team, said that while it is Nifong's prerogative to pursue the case if he so chooses, it would be a waste of time.

"I know the kids on the team, and I know they're innocent. We knew it from the start," Archer said by phone from his home in East Quogue, N.Y.

Court experts not connected with the Duke case cautioned that the DNA results could make prosecution difficult, but not impossible.

"There's an old saying that the absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence," said Peter Neufeld, co-founder and co-director of the Innocence Project, a nonprofit legal clinic.

A doctor and forensic sexual assault nurse examined the woman and found evidence consistent with a rape having occurred, police documents show.

Nifong said Tuesday that in 75 to 80 percent of all sexual assault cases, there is no DNA evidence.

"DNA results can often be helpful, but you know, I've been doing this a long time, and for most of the years I've been doing this we didn't have DNA," he said. "We had to deal with sexual assault cases the good old fashioned way. Witnesses got on the stand and told what happened to them."

Loyola Law School professor Stan Goldman agreed that DNA evidence is not necessary to win a conviction but said Nifong would have a lot to overcome without it.

"In this day and age, it's the 'CSI' effect," he said, referring to the popular "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" series on TV. "If you don't find the evidence, then maybe it's not the guy. In 'CSI,' they always find the evidence."

Defense attorney Bill Thomas said authorities found none of the alleged victim's DNA in the bathroom where she told police she was attacked.

"Our experts tell us that being gang-raped by three men would leave DNA material to be examined," Thomas said.

Goldman said the failure to find any matching DNA evidence, is "not the end of the case, but it's kind of damning to the prosecution case."

"Isn't the absence of DNA evidence, given the way the victim has described the crime, in and of itself almost enough to raise a reasonable doubt?" Goldman asked. "That's all the defense has to do."

DA tryng to make a name for himself. This case is SOOOOO over. You have multiple players raping her and she is fighting them to the point she breaks her nails and there is zero DNA evidence. Give me a friggen break. Furthermore she is raped and leaves never telling the other stripper she was there with that anything happened to her. OK We are talking a stripper who steals peoples cars she is stripping for and tries to run over people as opposed to a whole house full of witnesses that state otherwise that just happen to be Duke college students. Not to mention all the incentives that are there for woman on the down and out to claim rape now.

I give up. Some of you guys want to believe this happened go ahead. Is it any wonder things are the way they are now?

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by leviw

Poor Kobe was obviously a victim. Probably never touched her.

I never said that at all MOF DNA says he did. It was in there with that other guys DNA she ****ed right after Kobe.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

DA tryng to make a name for himself. This case is SOOOOO over. You have multiple players raping her and she is fighting them to the point she breaks her nails and there is zero DNA evidence. Give me a friggen break. Furthermore she is raped and leaves never telling the other stripper she was there with that anything happened to her. OK We are talking a stripper who steals peoples cars she is stripping for and tries to run over people as opposed to a whole house full of witnesses that state otherwise that just happen to be Duke college students. Not to mention all the incentives that are there for woman on the down and out to claim rape now.

I give up. Some of you guys want to believe this happened go ahead. Is it any wonder things are the way they are now?

Dude, I never said I believed her story. Frankly, I think there are a ton of holes in it. But I like to weigh out things before deciding what I believe. I just read this bit about the other stripper:

Thomas said one of the attorneys representing team members had interviewed the other dancer extensively, and she said the alleged victim never told her about a rape.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191096,00.html

I was just questioning the bit about there being police documents showing "evidence consistent with a rape having occurred". Something isn't right about this whole thing.

[Lzen]

I also question the DA's motives when he goes to a rally at the girl's college. WTF?

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Big Daddy, I can't look at that link you posted while at work. Can you just give us a summary of what it is? I have a very hard time believing a stripper simply for the nature of her work and what it can lead to, willingly or otherwise. I think that would be a tough thing to prove. But the one thing that gets me is the part I bolded in the article in my last post.

Everyone at the party said she arrived hammered, bruised and with broken fingernails which would explain why the evidence would be consistant.

Lets get real if someone raped and tore her shit up like that at the party as she claimed they would be stepping all over each other to snitch whoever it was out. They all wouldn't have the same story. Also the fact that say her results showed no sexual activity whatsoever is all that is needed in letting this case go. The DA is just trying to act all hard and keep his name in the media for as long as possible for his own self promotion.

[BIG_DADDY]

Interesting

FBI Rape Statistics and DNA Testing


In the US, there are an estimated 520,000 false rape allegations a year

http://www.fathersforlife.org/fbi_rape_stats.htm

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Dude, I never said I believed her story. Frankly, I think there are a ton of holes in it. But I like to weigh out things before deciding what I believe. I just read this bit about the other stripper:

I hear ya, I had not decided until the DNA came back negative. I still believe these guys would have fallen all over each other snitching if there was anything to it considering how big this has become.

[Katipan]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Interesting

FBI Rape Statistics and DNA Testing


In the US, there are an estimated 520,000 false rape allegations a year

http://www.fathersforlife.org/fbi_rape_stats.htm

I sympathize with your lot, but there will never be a number for how many rapes go un reported...

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Katipan

I sympathize with your lot, but there will never be a number for how many rapes go un reported...

Very true.

HEre is one on the percentage being exonerated through DNA evidence that was originally printed in the New York Times.

In 88 percent of the rape cases in the study, DNA evidence helped free the inmate. But biological evidence is far less likely to be available or provide definitive proof in other kinds of cases. Only 20 percent of the murder exonerations involved DNA evidence, and almost all of those were rape-murders.


http://www.truthinjustice.org/exoneration-study.htm

Maybe it is just me but I would say there is a problem here.

[BIG_DADDY]

Another problem is these rape vicitm funds. In Kobe's case that woman received 17k from those funds just because she claimed rape. This provides a huge incentive for women to claim rape especially if they are on the down and out. That being said I have no idea how you would monitor such a needed program so that it wouldn't provide that incentive.

[BIG_DADDY]

Here is what the legal consultant Mickey Sherman for CBS news had to say about this case and the DA:

Asked on The Early Show Tuesday by co-anchor Hannah Storm whether the case can go forward without any DNA matches, Sherman simply said, "No."

The results, if defense lawyers are reporting them accurately, would leave the players "pretty close to being exonerated," Sherman told Storm. "You know, this is the 'CSI' generation. Generally, a consent rape case is 'He said, she said.' But no longer. Now, we expect there's gonna be blood splattered, there's gonna be gunshot residue, and in rape cases, that there's gonna be DNA. And don't forget, it was the D.A., the district attorney (Durham County D.A. Mike Nifong) who came out swinging on this thing and said, 'She was raped. We believe her, and when the DNA tests are back, you're going see that we have a good case.' So, the egg is on his face right now."

Even if the players were wearing condoms during the alleged incident, that wouldn't explain the absence of any DNA from any of the supposed rapists, Sherman pointed out.

"First of all, we're talking about 46 different people (who were tested). … Most experts will say (condoms aren't) going to prevent an exchange of DNA. And, also, the nature of the alleged rape was more than just simple sex. There was violence involved, there was touching. And, if that was the case, there would be some DNA present."

Nifong told CBS News correspondent Trish Regan that he intends to proceed with the case, saying he won't be relying exclusively on DNA evidence, that there are a number of different things he'll be looking at in the case, and that if he files charges, he'll probably do it this week.

But, Storm asked Sherman, is there a case without DNA evidence?

"Generally," Sherman replied, "(there would be), because it's a 'He said, she said.' But this case is now so burdened with the baggage that the D.A. himself brought onto it. Plus, they've got that picture, if that exists, that allegedly shows (the accuser) was injured or inebriated before the alleged incident. That's gonna weigh heavily.

"And the public has, I think, shifted. I think everybody, all of us thought these kids must be guilty. But now, with the shift, the DNA, this picture, and everything else, I think the sentiment in the local community as well has probably shifted for the players."

Accounts of medical personnel who treated the alleged victim wouldn't necessarily make much difference, Sherman explained: "I'm not trying to damn every rape victim, by any means. But, generally, the (doctors and nurses) will say the conclusions are consistent with someone who's been forcibly raped, but you'll get other doctors saying it's consistent with people who've had consensual sex. That by itself is not gonna make this case."

As for numerous outspoken early comments from lawyers on both sides, Sherman observed: "As a defense person, we've got to get out there and say. 'Our client didn't do it,' or, 'Our client did it, but it was consensual.' That's what I expected to happen here. … They came out and said, 'We never had sex with the person.' And, obviously, they knew the DNA was going to come back. The D.A. should never have come out with anything. He should have said, 'Let's wait and see what happens.' "