Chiefs Gretz:Waters Learns It’s A New Chiefs World - Page 4

**Tribal Warfare** · 02-27-2009, 04:54 PM

Waters Learns It’s A New Chiefs World
February 27, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

Brian Waters gets failing grades for his first two tests in what is the brave new world of the Kansas City Chiefs.

The veteran guard failed to understand the message that was sent to him by Scott Pioli and Todd Haley.

And then he failed again when he apparently blabbed about his frustration and emotions and the information landed in the hands of Jason Whitlock and the Kansas City Star.

We hate to link to the Star for anything because they absolutely refuse to admit this site even exists. But if you haven’t read the story of an unhappy Brian Waters, then click here. We’ll provide a better written short version.

Waters did not like what he heard at the Pro Bowl about his new head coach. Gossip around the hotel pool with guys from the Arizona Cardinals was that Haley could be aloof and difficult to deal with. Waters decided to come to Kansas City and hear straight from the guys in charge what their plans are for this team.

According to the story, Pioli would not give him a meeting and Haley only had time to chat as they walked down a hallway in the team’s offices. Reportedly Haley told Waters that he could have gone out and gotten 22 guys off the street and won two games.

This attitude or in Whitlock’s word “arrogance” angered Waters and he then tried to contact Clark Hunt, who apparently would not take his call. That’s when Waters on Thursday called Haley and asked that the team to trade him.

Now Whitlock’s story does not quote Waters by name, and says the information came from someone with “knowledge of the situation.” Generally, that’s a player’s agent in that role. But Waters does not have an agent; he handles his contract stuff himself. So it’s pretty plain thanks to the detail in the narrative that the source of the information in the story is Waters himself, or someone Waters had spoken to in great detail. It’s either him or Haley and I think we are on very safe ground knowing it was not the head coach.

So, let’s say that everything in the story is accurate, at least to how Waters viewed what went down in the Chiefs offices. What should the average fan take from this?

I think the average fan already knows what Waters found out: that the whole world at Arrowhead has been turned upside down. The old way of doing things is out the door, and that goes for all facets of the operation.

Waters believed that as a nine-year veteran, team captain, Pro Bowler, team player rep and all-around locker room lawyer, he had the cache to walk in and get answers from those new guys in charge.

What he found out was that at Pioli and Haley’s poker table, he had no chips, he had no stake, he had no pull.

And from the view of Pioli/Haley, why should they spend even a minute talking with Waters right now? There are more important things to worry about like free agency, deciding on an offense, deciding on a defense, and preparing for the draft.

Plus, all they know is Brian Waters has been a starter on a team that has gone 6-26 in the last two seasons. What kind of answers does he have? What can they learn from him? Pioli can pull out three Super Bowl rings from his desk. How many winning post-season games has Waters played in? The answer would be none.

Whether this is the best way to handle players and people will be shown over the coming months and years. Pioli and Haley could have been more polite and handled Waters as if he was an asset that they still have available to them. But they are creating a new culture around the Chiefs and the way Waters was handled was likely done for a reason.

You can bet that Pioli/Haley have been told that Waters is a team leader. So they wanted to make sure the team leader got the message that things were going to be very different around the Chiefs. Whether it was done consciously or not, you can bet those two wanted to see how Waters handled the situation. They wanted to see if he could be their kind of leader.

And there were two ways Waters could have gone. He could have gone home, picked up the phone, called his teammates and told them “Boys, this is a brave new world and you had better buckle up and get to work because things have changed completely.”

Or he could have gone home, tried to go over the head of the new guys and then decided he didn’t want any part of the situation. To make sure the message was driven home, the whole thing was leaked so it could be made public.

For Pioli and Haley, their message still got out. Other players will hear of Waters’ story and quickly realize that things are very different around the Chiefs. Less established players will note how their buddy B-Dub was handled.

Brian Waters has always come across as a pretty sharp guy, and there’s no debating he’s been an asset to the team both on and off the field. But he missed the mark on this situation completely.

What he is soon to learn, just as Tony Gonzalez learned last year and just as Larry Johnson will learn as well, is that a player can’t fire a team. One of the things a player gives up when they receive those millions of dollars from management is the right to decide where and for whom they play. Waters can change that by staying home and forfeiting the millions. He has that right.

But his football future will be decided by the guy who wouldn’t have a meeting with him and the guy that apparently offended him.

It will be decided by two guys that gave him a test that he failed.

teedubya · 02-27-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

I agree, and the bottom line is that it's not like Brett Favre coming into to talk to Haley and Pioli. Or Peyton Manning, or a player of that caliber. We are talking about Brian Waters here. While he is a good player, he is an offensive guard who's skills are on the decline ever since big Willie Roaf retired.

I like Brian Waters, but to borrow a phrase, "know your role and shut your mouth."

It's "Know your Role, and Shut your Hole!"

**Rain Man** · 02-27-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

You are correct as always, Mr. Dinny Blues. For added perspective, here are some additional highlights from that year ...

US Population: 202,677,000
Average Cost of 3 Bedroom Home: $25,600
Average Cost of New Ford: $3,278
Average Cost of 1 Gallon of Gas: 35¢
Hit Movies -- Midnight Cowboy, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Wild Bunch, Easy Rider
Hit Tunes -- Leavin' on a Jet Plane, Games People Play, Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head

Also ...

The Beatles break up.
Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin die.
Monday Night Football debuts.
IBM introduces the floppy disk.
Bar codes are introduced.
The LCD (liquid crystal display) is invented.

FAX

Yoko Ono cursed the Chiefs.

Hammock Parties · 02-27-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

This may be the best single post containing the words puppy, punch line, degrees, dynasties, and Pioli that I've ever read on Chiefsplanet.

And for you people agreeing with Gretz, recall that he wanted to keep Greg Robinson, and then wanted to keep Herm and Carl. And he called us names. This is definitely just a suckup article to the new people in the big house.

But it's so true.

He may be sucking up. But he should be sucking up. We should all be sucking up to these football gods of New England. We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

**Rain Man** · 02-27-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

But it's so true.

He may be sucking up. But he should be sucking up. We should all be sucking up to these football gods of New England. We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

Well, admittedly that's a good point. But it doesn't account for the fact that he called us names, and I'm not going to cut him a break until he comes on here and apologizes to me.

Hear that, Gretz? I am your Palestine, mister. I am the non-negotiating, unreasonable, bus-bombing, non-showering, swarthy, ululating thorn in your side until I hear an apology from you for what happened back in the early part of the decade.

FloridaMan88 · 02-27-2009, 07:40 PM

Too bad Waters didn't show this intense outrage during the past 2 seasons when (under his pal Herm) the Chiefs won a combined 6 games.

Pioli should have told Waters, his plan for the team is rather simple... win.

**Bwana** · 02-27-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

According to the story, Pioli would not give him a meeting and Haley only had time to chat as they walked down a hallway in the team’s offices. Reportedly Haley told Waters that he could have gone out and gotten 22 guys off the street and won two games.

brain1081 · 02-27-2009, 08:21 PM

I am absolutely appalled at the responses I'm seeing to what happened here. Bryan Waters is one of the few real leaders on this team and the only Pro Bowl lineman. Maybe he should have made an appointment to come see the Pioli or Haley but maybe he's never had to before and didn't think anything of it. He wasn't being arrogant but thought he was doing the right thing. Not to mention the fact that he was doing the right thing. He had heard bad things about his new coach and wanted to find out the truth. This is the right way to do things. He went straight to the horses mouth (Haley) and got a horses ass instead.

This was handled so poorly by Haley and Pioli that it's frankly sad. The message that they sent (intentional or unintentional) is that leadership and character are not good qualities for Chiefs players. Regardless of what that hack Gretz says, no logically thinking person would expect Waters to turn from this situation and start spreading the word that things have changed. *BTW - everyone that has said that this is the first time that you actually agree with Gretz, this in and of itself should be a big clue to you that you are on the wrong side of this. * The very best outcome of this situation is that Waters spreads the word that everything that has been seen and said about Haley is true. Then you end up with a whole team full of guys that resent their head coach before a single snap is played. Doesn't that sound freaking wonderful.

What should have happened is that Piolo tells Waters that he does NOT have an open door policy and that he would be glad to talk to him with an appointment, not this BS about how he's not interested in talking to him. There's a really big difference between setting a tone and just flat out being a prick. As far as what Haley said, it was way out of line. He basically just told his best linemen that they don't need. Now he gets to find out whether or not that's true.

Think about it this way. If you were concerned about the direction of your company right now and went to your boss' boss and was told he wasn't interested in talking to you about the new guy he just hired, then went to the new guy and he told you that a reeruned monkey could do your job, so you should just be happy to have one. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed? Personally if it were me I'd be looking for a new job right away, wouldn't you?

MTG#10 · 02-27-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brain1081

I am absolutely appalled at the responses I'm seeing to what happened here. Bryan Waters is one of the few real leaders on this team and the only Pro Bowl lineman. Maybe he should have made an appointment to come see the Pioli or Haley but maybe he's never had to before and didn't think anything of it. He wasn't being arrogant but thought he was doing the right thing. Not to mention the fact that he was doing the right thing. He had heard bad things about his new coach and wanted to find out the truth. This is the right way to do things. He went straight to the horses mouth (Haley) and got a horses ass instead.

This was handled so poorly by Haley and Pioli that it's frankly sad. The message that they sent (intentional or unintentional) is that leadership and character are not good qualities for Chiefs players. Regardless of what that hack Gretz says, no logically thinking person would expect Waters to turn from this situation and start spreading the word that things have changed. *BTW - everyone that has said that this is the first time that you actually agree with Gretz, this in and of itself should be a big clue to you that you are on the wrong side of this. * The very best outcome of this situation is that Waters spreads the word that everything that has been seen and said about Haley is true. Then you end up with a whole team full of guys that resent their head coach before a single snap is played. Doesn't that sound freaking wonderful.

What should have happened is that Piolo tells Waters that he does NOT have an open door policy and that he would be glad to talk to him with an appointment, not this BS about how he's not interested in talking to him. There's a really big difference between setting a tone and just flat out being a prick. As far as what Haley said, it was way out of line. He basically just told his best linemen that they don't need. Now he gets to find out whether or not that's true.

Think about it this way. If you were concerned about the direction of your company right now and went to your boss' boss and was told he wasn't interested in talking to you about the new guy he just hired, then went to the new guy and he told you that a reeruned monkey could do your job, so you should just be happy to have one. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed? Personally if it were me I'd be looking for a new job right away, wouldn't you?

Shut up n00b.

Mecca · 02-27-2009, 08:23 PM

Go ask your boss for a sit down meeting about the future of the company when he's in the midst of the busiest period of his year...watch what happens.

Hammock Parties · 02-27-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brain1081

I am absolutely appalled at the responses I'm seeing to what happened here. Bryan Waters is one of the few real leaders on this team and the only Pro Bowl lineman. Maybe he should have made an appointment to come see the Pioli or Haley but maybe he's never had to before and didn't think anything of it. He wasn't being arrogant but thought he was doing the right thing. Not to mention the fact that he was doing the right thing. He had heard bad things about his new coach and wanted to find out the truth. This is the right way to do things. He went straight to the horses mouth (Haley) and got a horses ass instead.

This was handled so poorly by Haley and Pioli that it's frankly sad. The message that they sent (intentional or unintentional) is that leadership and character are not good qualities for Chiefs players. Regardless of what that hack Gretz says, no logically thinking person would expect Waters to turn from this situation and start spreading the word that things have changed. *BTW - everyone that has said that this is the first time that you actually agree with Gretz, this in and of itself should be a big clue to you that you are on the wrong side of this. * The very best outcome of this situation is that Waters spreads the word that everything that has been seen and said about Haley is true. Then you end up with a whole team full of guys that resent their head coach before a single snap is played. Doesn't that sound freaking wonderful.

What should have happened is that Piolo tells Waters that he does NOT have an open door policy and that he would be glad to talk to him with an appointment, not this BS about how he's not interested in talking to him. There's a really big difference between setting a tone and just flat out being a prick. As far as what Haley said, it was way out of line. He basically just told his best linemen that they don't need. Now he gets to find out whether or not that's true.

Think about it this way. If you were concerned about the direction of your company right now and went to your boss' boss and was told he wasn't interested in talking to you about the new guy he just hired, then went to the new guy and he told you that a reeruned monkey could do your job, so you should just be happy to have one. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed? Personally if it were me I'd be looking for a new job right away, wouldn't you?

Hi, Whitlock!

MVChiefFan · 02-27-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Go ask your boss for a sit down meeting about the future of the company when he's in the midst of the busiest period of his year...watch what happens.

Hammock Parties · 02-27-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Go ask your boss for a sit down meeting about the future of the company when he's in the midst of the busiest period of his year...watch what happens.

Usually I just tell Nick to STFU and STFD...that's what happens.

(I'm joking if you read this Nick...you know that).

brain1081 · 02-27-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Go ask your boss for a sit down meeting about the future of the company when he's in the midst of the busiest period of his year...watch what happens.

Yeah, never been a problem. Normally, I go into their office (or email them) and then within the week it's done. Frankly, it shouldn't be a big deal for anyone that's confident in what they're doing to schedule an hour to ensure that their employees are happy. Typically this leads to overall production and word spreads quickly about the future to other employees. On the flip side if the topic comes up and everyone is refusing to talk about it then that spreads quickly too and production goes down. You don't know much about management or economics in general do you?

Boris The Great · 02-27-2009, 10:44 PM

The saddest thing here is that big bad team leader Brian Waters ran crying to Whitlock to get his story out. Say what you will about LJ, but you are never going to read from unnamed sources in the Star about how LJ wants out. You wont need to read it because you will see LJ standing out there front and center, saying it himself.

Just another example in the long line of guys who got pussified in the first half of this decade. Dante didnt get treated special anymore, so he wanted out. Trent wasnt going to be handed a starting job, so he wanted out. Tony didnt get to pick and choose how he got to break a record, so he hopped onto the bitch seat and pouted. Now Waters joins the club, hiding behind Whitlock instead of being his own man.

Some of these guys are good players, but they sure as shit arent leaders.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 02-27-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris The Great

The saddest thing here is that big bad team leader Brian Waters ran crying to Whitlock to get his story out. Say what you will about LJ, but you are never going to read from unnamed sources in the Star about how LJ wants out. You wont need to read it because you will see LJ standing out there front and center, saying it himself.

Just another example in the long line of guys who got pussified in the first half of this decade. Dante didnt get treated special anymore, so he wanted out. Trent wasnt going to be handed a starting job, so he wanted out. Tony didnt get to pick and choose how he got to break a record, so he hopped onto the bitch seat and pouted. Now Waters joins the club, hiding behind Whitlock instead of being his own man.

Some of these guys are good players, but they sure as shit arent leaders.

Good post.

02-27-2009, 04:54 PM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $412813	Gretz:Waters Learns It’s A New Chiefs World Waters Learns It’s A New Chiefs World February 27, 2009 - Bob Gretz \| Brian Waters gets failing grades for his first two tests in what is the brave new world of the Kansas City Chiefs. The veteran guard failed to understand the message that was sent to him by Scott Pioli and Todd Haley. And then he failed again when he apparently blabbed about his frustration and emotions and the information landed in the hands of Jason Whitlock and the Kansas City Star. We hate to link to the Star for anything because they absolutely refuse to admit this site even exists. But if you haven’t read the story of an unhappy Brian Waters, then click here. We’ll provide a better written short version. Waters did not like what he heard at the Pro Bowl about his new head coach. Gossip around the hotel pool with guys from the Arizona Cardinals was that Haley could be aloof and difficult to deal with. Waters decided to come to Kansas City and hear straight from the guys in charge what their plans are for this team. According to the story, Pioli would not give him a meeting and Haley only had time to chat as they walked down a hallway in the team’s offices. Reportedly Haley told Waters that he could have gone out and gotten 22 guys off the street and won two games. This attitude or in Whitlock’s word “arrogance” angered Waters and he then tried to contact Clark Hunt, who apparently would not take his call. That’s when Waters on Thursday called Haley and asked that the team to trade him. Now Whitlock’s story does not quote Waters by name, and says the information came from someone with “knowledge of the situation.” Generally, that’s a player’s agent in that role. But Waters does not have an agent; he handles his contract stuff himself. So it’s pretty plain thanks to the detail in the narrative that the source of the information in the story is Waters himself, or someone Waters had spoken to in great detail. It’s either him or Haley and I think we are on very safe ground knowing it was not the head coach. So, let’s say that everything in the story is accurate, at least to how Waters viewed what went down in the Chiefs offices. What should the average fan take from this? I think the average fan already knows what Waters found out: that the whole world at Arrowhead has been turned upside down. The old way of doing things is out the door, and that goes for all facets of the operation. Waters believed that as a nine-year veteran, team captain, Pro Bowler, team player rep and all-around locker room lawyer, he had the cache to walk in and get answers from those new guys in charge. What he found out was that at Pioli and Haley’s poker table, he had no chips, he had no stake, he had no pull. And from the view of Pioli/Haley, why should they spend even a minute talking with Waters right now? There are more important things to worry about like free agency, deciding on an offense, deciding on a defense, and preparing for the draft. Plus, all they know is Brian Waters has been a starter on a team that has gone 6-26 in the last two seasons. What kind of answers does he have? What can they learn from him? Pioli can pull out three Super Bowl rings from his desk. How many winning post-season games has Waters played in? The answer would be none. Whether this is the best way to handle players and people will be shown over the coming months and years. Pioli and Haley could have been more polite and handled Waters as if he was an asset that they still have available to them. But they are creating a new culture around the Chiefs and the way Waters was handled was likely done for a reason. You can bet that Pioli/Haley have been told that Waters is a team leader. So they wanted to make sure the team leader got the message that things were going to be very different around the Chiefs. Whether it was done consciously or not, you can bet those two wanted to see how Waters handled the situation. They wanted to see if he could be their kind of leader. And there were two ways Waters could have gone. He could have gone home, picked up the phone, called his teammates and told them “Boys, this is a brave new world and you had better buckle up and get to work because things have changed completely.” Or he could have gone home, tried to go over the head of the new guys and then decided he didn’t want any part of the situation. To make sure the message was driven home, the whole thing was leaked so it could be made public. For Pioli and Haley, their message still got out. Other players will hear of Waters’ story and quickly realize that things are very different around the Chiefs. Less established players will note how their buddy B-Dub was handled. Brian Waters has always come across as a pretty sharp guy, and there’s no debating he’s been an asset to the team both on and off the field. But he missed the mark on this situation completely. What he is soon to learn, just as Tony Gonzalez learned last year and just as Larry Johnson will learn as well, is that a player can’t fire a team. One of the things a player gives up when they receive those millions of dollars from management is the right to decide where and for whom they play. Waters can change that by staying home and forfeiting the millions. He has that right. But his football future will be decided by the guy who wouldn’t have a meeting with him and the guy that apparently offended him. It will be decided by two guys that gave him a test that he failed.
Posts: 42,198

02-27-2009, 07:40 PM	#50
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $2662906	Too bad Waters didn't show this intense outrage during the past 2 seasons when (under his pal Herm) the Chiefs won a combined 6 games. Pioli should have told Waters, his plan for the team is rather simple... win.
Posts: 39,107

02-27-2009, 08:21 PM	#52
brain1081 Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: KC Casino cash: $10004900	For Real?! I am absolutely appalled at the responses I'm seeing to what happened here. Bryan Waters is one of the few real leaders on this team and the only Pro Bowl lineman. Maybe he should have made an appointment to come see the Pioli or Haley but maybe he's never had to before and didn't think anything of it. He wasn't being arrogant but thought he was doing the right thing. Not to mention the fact that he was doing the right thing. He had heard bad things about his new coach and wanted to find out the truth. This is the right way to do things. He went straight to the horses mouth (Haley) and got a horses ass instead. This was handled so poorly by Haley and Pioli that it's frankly sad. The message that they sent (intentional or unintentional) is that leadership and character are not good qualities for Chiefs players. Regardless of what that hack Gretz says, no logically thinking person would expect Waters to turn from this situation and start spreading the word that things have changed. BTW - everyone that has said that this is the first time that you actually agree with Gretz, this in and of itself should be a big clue to you that you are on the wrong side of this. The very best outcome of this situation is that Waters spreads the word that everything that has been seen and said about Haley is true. Then you end up with a whole team full of guys that resent their head coach before a single snap is played. Doesn't that sound freaking wonderful. What should have happened is that Piolo tells Waters that he does NOT have an open door policy and that he would be glad to talk to him with an appointment, not this BS about how he's not interested in talking to him. There's a really big difference between setting a tone and just flat out being a prick. As far as what Haley said, it was way out of line. He basically just told his best linemen that they don't need. Now he gets to find out whether or not that's true. Think about it this way. If you were concerned about the direction of your company right now and went to your boss' boss and was told he wasn't interested in talking to you about the new guy he just hired, then went to the new guy and he told you that a reeruned monkey could do your job, so you should just be happy to have one. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed? Personally if it were me I'd be looking for a new job right away, wouldn't you?
Posts: 16

02-27-2009, 08:23 PM	#54
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2137050	Go ask your boss for a sit down meeting about the future of the company when he's in the midst of the busiest period of his year...watch what happens.
Posts: 111,255

02-27-2009, 10:44 PM	#59
Boris The Great Starter Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $10004900	The saddest thing here is that big bad team leader Brian Waters ran crying to Whitlock to get his story out. Say what you will about LJ, but you are never going to read from unnamed sources in the Star about how LJ wants out. You wont need to read it because you will see LJ standing out there front and center, saying it himself. Just another example in the long line of guys who got pussified in the first half of this decade. Dante didnt get treated special anymore, so he wanted out. Trent wasnt going to be handed a starting job, so he wanted out. Tony didnt get to pick and choose how he got to break a record, so he hopped onto the bitch seat and pouted. Now Waters joins the club, hiding behind Whitlock instead of being his own man. Some of these guys are good players, but they sure as shit arent leaders.
Posts: 383