CBS Sports Article On KS's 2nd Rd picks

[Cosmos]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/s...overlist_photo

Sorry if a repost.

(KC's 2nd rd picks)

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Laz

i didn't list JUST CODY ... i listed a dozen viable players we could take are highly talented and filled a need.

i sick and tired of dealing with incompetent GM's (Peterson,Dayton Moore)

not winning is one thing ... doing stupid shit like drafting Dante Hall and Benny Sapp in the 2nd round of this year's draft is another thing.

Again, Philadelphia was content with picking "Dante Hall" the pick after us. And they arguably need him less than we do. Stop treating that pick like it's a complete WTF pick. Lots of teams and experts seem to think he's enough of a weapon to justify the pick. Hell, he'll be asked to do a lot of the same things as Reggie Bush, but a full round lower.

I don't know how I feel about the Arenas pick. But if he's a solid nickel back, I don't see why that's labeled as a "gadget" player. You do realize that they play 50% or so of the snaps? And you do realize that we will never be able to beat a playoff team like Indy or NE or the Jets, etc... unless you have solid nickel/dime guys. It's not good enough to have a #1/#2 corner. You have to account for teams that have dangerous slot receivers. If he plays 50% or so of snaps in the nickel effectively and serves as a returner, then there is nothing wrong with the value of the pick.

As for people listed, look.... I thought Cam Thomas would have been a great pick for us in the third. He fell several rounds lower. If Baltimore doesn't pick Cody, who knows how low he falls. None of these NTs come off as anything close to a guarantee.

Did the Chiefs reach on any of their picks the past few days? It doesn't seem so. So what's the problem? Because we didn't rely on a need-based draft strategy? We're sort of flip-flopping here.

[DBOSHO]

Todd haley "we have the best runningback in the nfl and a pretty good secondary, but no nosetackle or rush linebackers. We could fill both spots in the 2nd round. What do you think scott?"

Scott pioli "what about a runningback and a corner? Noone will be able to pass on us or stop the run everrrr!"

Charlie weis "i want clausen"

Sp & th " you shut the hell up! Matt cassels the truth! Go sit in the corner!"

( charlie weis walks slowly to the corner and cuts himself)

Th " we need Some sort of pass rush though"

Sp "two words. Javier.arenas. Best blitzer in football. Hes basically a rush linebacker playing corner. Problem solved"

(crickets)

Sp "its gonna work" *

[Lanning]

Before some of you guys have a heart attack lets look at the picks before we whine about them.

Eric Berry= Stud
Dexter McCluster= Darren Sproles 2.0
Javier Arenas= Will play corner and return kicks (which is a "need" imo)
Jon Asomoah= Starting guard for 10 yrs
Tony Moeaki= Has all the potential is the world to become a great TE for the Chiefs.
Kendrick Lewis= Ehh.. maybe will play some special teams
Cameron Sheffield= might actually be a big time steal for his spot. We need a LB and it looks like Sheffield can come in and feel the void..

The only pick I see that may not make the team is Lewis, but Pioli drafted him for a reason so we will see.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by Lanning

Before some of you guys have a heart attack lets look at the picks before we whine about them.

Eric Berry= Stud
Dexter McCluster= Darren Sproles 2.0
Javier Arenas= Will play corner and return kicks (which is a "need" imo)
Jon Asomoah= Starting guard for 10 yrs
Tony Moeaki= Has all the potential is the world to become a great TE for the Chiefs.
Kendrick Lewis= Ehh.. maybe will play some special teams
Cameron Sheffield= might actually be a big time steal for his spot. We need a LB and it looks like Sheffield can come in and feel the void..

The only pick I see that may not make the team is Lewis, but Pioli drafted him for a reason so we will see.

so you think we have looked at the picks yet?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Laz

so you think McCuster and Arenas are 1st round types?

you don't take ROLE players in the 1st round unless you are a winning team that just needs that extra piece.

unless McCluster is Reggie Freaking Bush then he is not a 1st round talent.

not to mention that even if McCluster is Reggie Bush-ish ... 1st round talent that fills a need > 1st round gadget talent.

I'm just saying, gadget picks like Bush have been taking high. And I believe Sproles was getting serious offers for second round picks. So the idea that it's so outlandish for "gadget" guys like this to go in the second round is ridiculous. Almost everybody had McCluster going in the high second round. Not a single person outside of KC thinks this is a reach.

And you have to stop acting like we have to do everything to build for now. Do you think McCluster won't be here in 3-5 years? Why is it so urgent that we have to, have to, have to build a hole-free defense now. Today.

Was he a reach? No. Will he get significant playing time? If he plays to his potential, yes. What's the big ****ing problem? It's not like we're talking about Tyson Jackson, where we picked 10 picks or so above the slot. We picked a guy right where he was slotted. The only reason you're upset is because it doesn't match your personal evaluation of the player. You have no idea what Weis wants to do with McCluster. You have no idea what kind of sets he wants to feature him in. Therefore, you and I both have no clue what value McCluster brings to this team. Only Pioli, Haley, and Weis know.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by ForeverChiefs58

Really? Cause last time I checked the mother ****ing Ravens happen to know a thing or two about building a good damn defense. And they thought he would be perfect NT for them to continue to dominate with their 3-4, the one that is run right.

Even Berry said in his Q & A that most of his success came from having a dominant NT in Dan Williams.

The Ravens already have a pretty solid defense so they're in a position where they can take a "luxury pick" like Cody, to use a phrase I've been reading a lot lately. They can gamble on the possibility that Cody will live up to his potential instead of merely cashing his paycheck, getting fat and happy, while eating himself out of the league. The Chiefs can't afford gambles like that when they have the chance to fill a different need with a high character guy that they think is very likely to fulfill his potential as a playmaker.

[Lanning]

Originally Posted by Laz

so you think we have looked at the picks yet?

Not necessarily. Some of you guys are mindlessly ranting about players you may or may not of ever seen play before or even know who they are.

I just ask that you at least use some logic with your idiotic rants.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by patteeu

The Ravens already have a pretty solid defense so they're in a position where they can take a "luxury pick" like Cody, to use a phrase I've been reading a lot lately. They can gamble on the possibility that Cody will live up to his potential instead of merely cashing his paycheck, getting fat and happy, while eating himself out of the league. The Chiefs can't afford gambles like that when they have the chance to fill a different need with a high character guy that they think is very likely to fulfill his potential as a playmaker.

That's the thing. The fact that Dan Williams was rated so much higher than Cody in the draft, even though Cody was a much more productive player? We have no idea how Cody tested on his psych evaluations. We have no idea what the scouts dug up about his work ethic and future work ethic concerns. And frankly, at the Nose Tackle position, it's a very legit concern that your heavy tackle could eat his way out of the league, especially when he has the money to do so. I still remember Jonathan Sullivan. Tremendously talented DT. At his way out of the league.

It's okay to question a pick. But when people act like they know the full story? There are scouts who spend an entire year digging up dirt on these guys. Jamarcus Russell is a prime example. #1 pick calibre talent, but maybe the most unmotivated QB to ever walk into the NFL. How does a behavioral specialist not pick up on that?

[ForeverChiefs58]

I for one am excited and think the picks are great players and all, I just wish we could have address the gapping holes that have stood out like a sore thumb on this team year after year. My problem is we could have fixed some of those and once again we ignored it. Every year the Chiefs fail to address a problem position of urgent need! QB, RB, K, RT, DE, DT, NT, all holes ignored in previous years. When they start to fix one, two more holes pop up. That is the part that is so frustrating.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by patteeu

The Ravens already have a pretty solid defense so they're in a position where they can take a "luxury pick" like Cody, to use a phrase I've been reading a lot lately. They can gamble on the possibility that Cody will live up to his potential instead of merely cashing his paycheck, getting fat and happy, while eating himself out of the league. The Chiefs can't afford gambles like that when they have the chance to fill a different need with a high character guy that they think is very likely to fulfill his potential as a playmaker.

that can't afford to risk on a NT but can afford to draft Dante Hall at the top of the 2nd.

Dante Hall - smurf type running back out of college ... returned kicks and converted to a gadget slot receiver.

sound familiar?

Javier Arenas - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle. Also Returns kicks

Benny Sapp - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle. Doesn't return kicks

Mark McMillian - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle.


The human joystick and mighty mouse part duex in the 2nd round

ya helluva a 2nd round in a STRONG,STRONG 2nd round draft class.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by Lanning

Not necessarily. Some of you guys are mindlessly ranting about players you may or may not of ever seen play before or even know who they are.

I just ask that you at least use some logic with your idiotic rants.

ok ... the n00b just said i didn't know the picks and i provide idiotic rants


i gave the little bastard a chance

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Laz

that can't afford to risk on a NT but can afford to draft Dante Hall at the top of the 2nd.

Dante Hall - smurf type running back out of college ... returned kicks and converted to a gadget slot receiver.

sound familiar?

Javier Arenas - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle. Also Returns kicks

Benny Sapp - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle. Doesn't return kicks

Mark McMillian - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle.


The human joystick and mighty mouse part duex in the 2nd round

ya helluva a 2nd round in a STRONG,STRONG 2nd round draft class.

Maybe McCluster is Dante Hall. But maybe he's Wes Welker or Steve Smith or Darren Sproles. If he's any of those four, he's probably worth the pick that was used on him.

I don't like the idea of forcing yourself to draft a NT just because you've convince yourself that it's your biggest need (which might not even be true) when your team has as many holes as the Chiefs do. I'm more attracted to the BPA approach, particularly if the BPA still fills a big need. Like it or not, our offense needs playmakers, our special teams needs a returner, and our defense needs help with their pass rush and another guy who can cover.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Maybe McCluster is Dante Hall. But maybe he's Wes Welker or Steve Smith or Darren Sproles. If he's any of those four, he's probably worth the pick that was used on him.

I don't like the idea of forcing yourself to draft a NT just because you've convince yourself that it's your biggest need (which might not even be true) when your team has as many holes as the Chiefs do. I'm more attracted to the BPA approach, particularly if the BPA still fills a big need. Like it or not, our offense needs playmakers, our special teams needs a returner, and our defense needs help with their pass rush and another guy who can cover.

the BPA is a great theory but when you have as many draft picks as we did then you need to be able to fill both value and need.

so maybe we don't grab a NT in the 2nd ... maybe we go Linebacker (washington) or even another safety(Nate Allen).

then you go with a slot WR/KR like Jordan Shipley in the 3rd and then grab atkins or Cam Thomas.

there were viable NT's that went in just about every round for you to get value and need

Terrance Cody - 2nd round (good enough for the Ravens)
Torrell Troup - 2nd round (Bills)
Linval Joseph - 2nd round (giants)

3 nose tackles that went in the 2nd after we picked ... to teams that know defense pretty good.

Geno Atkins - 4th round (cincy)

Cam Thomas - 5th round (chargers, this could bite us in the butt)


clearly Pioli is ok with our nose tackle position so no excuses about it this year.

[el borracho]

Originally Posted by patteeu

...

I don't like the idea of forcing yourself to draft a NT just because you've convince yourself that it's your biggest need (which might not even be true) when your team has as many holes as the Chiefs do. ....

The complaint is not that we missed a NT, the complaint is that we took role players who will not spend much time on the field when we could have taken starters. Linebackers, NT, offensive linemen, starting WR all would have made more sense because they would get more time on the field and, therefore, could have made a larger contribution. Hell, even Mays (the safety) would have made more sense than a project slot receiver who weighs less than most high schoolers.

[Mr. Laz]

btw ... it's not even that i hate McCluster or Arenas but taking them instead of the other players in the 2nd round is just terrible.