Bob Sutton

[Chiefs=Champions]

I think all this is linked to why Berry had to play as a box safety predominately. If we have a backer who can actually cover, then we could potentially move Berry out to fs. Even Dj, for all his strengths, isnt a great cover backer. People dont realise just how valuable Berry was to the defense last year. He filled so many roles he should be asking for every bit Earl Thomas got. There just aren't many players who can cover as well as him and successfully play in the box.

People need to also realise that defenses nowdays have to be so versatile. Hiding your coverages is so important. Its great if you have a bunch of situational guys, but ultimately you want guys who can move around and do different things. Otherwise you become far to predictable.

I would be ecstatic if we draft Ward, but s cover backer would be a equally good pick. I really wanted Kuechley a couple of years ago for that reason. He can cover and play the run extremely well and his versatility would have allowed Berry to move around more.

[RealSNR]

Telvin Smith, Tamba Hali, and Justin Houston will become weed buddies in that LBing group. That boosts team chemistry and shit.

I'm all for it.

[Chiefs=Champions]

I guess my stance on Sutton would be that he gets far too much of the blame. We didn't have the players to mask our weaknesses. Id also argue that we couldn't sub players through because they simply weren't ready. Its just not as easy as throwing a guy in there, its just not. You do that too much and your whole scheme and game plan can be thrown out the window.

However I think that if we can find a deep safety or cover backer, or maybe both, then we will be able to pretty much dare teams to beat us like we did in the first few weeks. Those two positions are of extreme importance to us having a legitimate shot at a superbowl. Really makes.me wonder why we didn't try to adress those positions in free agency.

[Jimmya]

This will be another year to evaluate him. He doesn't show different pre-snap reads so opposing qb's can get a true picture of what the defense will be in. One of his negatives at the Jets was his inability to make adjustments after the half. I still think he struggles with that.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Originally Posted by milkman

I have asked this in threads before, and I get no legitimate response, so I am going to start this thread.

Over and over, and over again, people keep saying that Sutton made no adjustments, and is responsible for the failures of this defense.

I have no dog in this, but I want to know, what exactly do you think he could do?

This defense was playing spectacularly for the first 5-6 games, but then Buffalo, Houston and the Donkeys had enough film to recognize that they could exploit the deep zones because Kendrick Lewis was almost always in the wrong place, and they adjusted their game plans to take full advantage.

Sutton tried to counter that by moving the corners off the line, which allowed offenses to exploit the short passing game and minimize the pass rush, which was also affected by the loss of Houston to injury, and a less than 100% Hali.

The one critisism that is completely valid is that Sutton did not utilize a rotaion on the line that kept Poe fresh, and he was not the same player for the 2nd half of the season that he was for the first half, because he was just worn out.

So, again, I ask, given the limitations of the talent, what exactly did you expect Sutton to do?

I think you have diagnosed this thing perfect...I guess the only thing he can do is give Dorsey an earful about getting him better talent

[Rain Man]

I think we're quick to blame the coaches around here, and I'm as guilty as anybody.

I'm really not sure what happened last year. It was weird as heck. We went from having a world-beating defense to a defense that was almost Greg Robinson-esque in ineptness. (There I go blaming the coaches again, but ... spinner defense. That was all Robinson.) And at the same time our offense went from being completely inept to being a world beater. That was totally weird.

On the defense, I think it's no coincidence that our defense went from good to bad about the same time that our schedule got tougher. It implies that our defense was good enough to shut down weak teams, but that it had a weakness (also known as a "Kendrick") that could be easily exploited by good teams. Or as implied in the initial post, maybe 9 weeks was enough time for opponents to figure out the Achilles heel of our system or our personnel.

The change in the offense was the bigger mystery. What started going right? Was it all Geoff Schwartz and Donald Stephenson (aka Russell Wilson)? That and Fasano's return were the only notable personnel changes. Or was it the offense learning the new system well enough that they started dominating via their amazing talent and system?

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I think we're quick to blame the coaches around here, and I'm as guilty as anybody.

I'm really not sure what happened last year. It was weird as heck. We went from having a world-beating defense to a defense that was almost Greg Robinson-esque in ineptness. (There I go blaming the coaches again, but ... spinner defense. That was all Robinson.) And at the same time our offense went from being completely inept to being a world beater. That was totally weird.

On the defense, I think it's no coincidence that our defense went from good to bad about the same time that our schedule got tougher. It implies that our defense was good enough to shut down weak teams, but that it had a weakness (also known as a "Kendrick") that could be easily exploited by good teams. Or as implied in the initial post, maybe 9 weeks was enough time for opponents to figure out the Achilles heel of our system or our personnel.

The change in the offense was the bigger mystery. What started going right? Was it all Geoff Schwartz and Donald Stephenson (aka Russell Wilson)? That and Fasano's return were the only notable personnel changes. Or was it the offense learning the new system well enough that they started dominating via their amazing talent and system?

The success on offense had as much to do with Reid pushing Smith to be more aggressive downfield, which loosened up defenses and made the short passing game far more effective.

[ct]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I think we're quick to blame the coaches around here, and I'm as guilty as anybody.

I'm really not sure what happened last year. It was weird as heck. We went from having a world-beating defense to a defense that was almost Greg Robinson-esque in ineptness. (There I go blaming the coaches again, but ... spinner defense. That was all Robinson.) And at the same time our offense went from being completely inept to being a world beater. That was totally weird.

On the defense, I think it's no coincidence that our defense went from good to bad about the same time that our schedule got tougher. It implies that our defense was good enough to shut down weak teams, but that it had a weakness (also known as a "Kendrick") that could be easily exploited by good teams. Or as implied in the initial post, maybe 9 weeks was enough time for opponents to figure out the Achilles heel of our system or our personnel.

The change in the offense was the bigger mystery. What started going right? Was it all Geoff Schwartz and Donald Stephenson (aka Russell Wilson)? That and Fasano's return were the only notable personnel changes. Or was it the offense learning the new system well enough that they started dominating via their amazing talent and system?

That's funny shit right there! Add that to the lexicon along w/ another suggestion, KLewlis

I'm strongly in the camp our FS weakness and injuries to our pass rushers killed the defense. I'm on board with Abdullah, think he's a fine player, very upgradeable, but a fine player, and should have been starting all year. So I'm not terribly worried about our safety play this year, should be much improved, but an upgrade prospect should definitely be selected at some point, I'm not counting on Commings long term until he shows he can stay on the field.

[ThaVirus]

1. Make sure Dunta Robinson never saw the field. I'll never understand why Ron Parker didn't see more coverage snaps in the playoff game.

2. Replace Kendrick Lewis with Abdullah or Berry. It's my opinion that Berry should have been our starting FS and Abdullah our starting SS with Demps as the first S coming off the bench.

3. Rotate more often, specifically on the defensive line. Poe was our only hope for a pass rush from a down lineman and we ran him into the ground all season long. Reduce his snaps by about 25% next season.

4. Make better adjustments. There were times when he made great adjustments (benching Robinson after he got torched by Victor Cruz and blitzing more against Houston in the second half) but there were many more when he didn't, specifically against Denver and San Diego (he never came up with an answer to stop those crossing routes) and worst of all the Colts. I may not get paid for this but I have common sense and it tells me when you're hemorrhaging yards and TDs doing one thing, you switch the shit up to counter it.

5. Practice/run more zone coverage. I hate to be the copy cat but Seattle runs a shit ton of zone and it's what makes their D so ferocious, among many other things. The thing specifically about the zone is that it keeps all eyes in front of you. That means there are often more chances to break up passes, tip balls for INTs, lay big hits (especially on crossing routes), and gang tackle. I'm aware that we probably just don't have the personnel to effectively run a disciplined zone defense but we need to try. Run that shit in practice and bring in some guys that can do both man and zone and do them well.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

1. Make sure Dunta Robinson never saw the field. I'll never understand why Ron Parker didn't see more coverage snaps in the playoff game.

We saw Parker make plays as a blitzer, but we have no idea how he works in coverage.
I agree, though, that is one thing that Sutton could have tried, but at the same time, he also has the benefit of actually seeing Parker in practice.

2. Replace Kendrick Lewis with Abdullah or Berry. It's my opinion that Berry should have been our starting FS and Abdullah our starting SS with Demps as the first S coming off the bench.

I am not convinced that Abdullah has the tools to play the single high safety position, and he lacks the versatility to be moved around in the defense that Berry brings to the field.

But, again, it might have been worth a look.

3. Rotate more often, specifically on the defensive line. Poe was our only hope for a pass rush from a down lineman and we ran him into the ground all season long. Reduce his snaps by about 25% next season.

Agree with this.

4. Make better adjustments. There were times when he made great adjustments (benching Robinson after he got torched by Victor Cruz and blitzing more against Houston in the second half) but there were many more when he didn't, specifically against Denver and San Diego (he never came up with an answer to stop those crossing routes) and worst of all the Colts. I may not get paid for this but I have common sense and it tells me when you're hemorrhaging yards and TDs doing one thing, you switch the shit up to counter it..

The best way to stop those crossing routes, and really, any other short passes is sound fundamental tackling.
Those passes are going to be completed a majority of the time, so you have to minimize the gains, which forces the offense to start looking for bigger chunks in the passing game, allowing the pass rushers to get more pressure.

5. Practice/run more zone coverage. I hate to be the copy cat but Seattle runs a shit ton of zone and it's what makes their D so ferocious, among many other things. The thing specifically about the zone is that it keeps all eyes in front of you. That means there are often more chances to break up passes, tip balls for INTs, lay big hits (especially on crossing routes), and gang tackle. I'm aware that we probably just don't have the personnel to effectively run a disciplined zone defense but we need to try. Run that shit in practice and bring in some guys that can do both man and zone and do them well.

Cooper might/probaly would have benefitted from more practice in zone, but, at the same time, you might not want to overload him too early in his progression as a corner.
We know, however, that Sean Smith has historically sucked in zone.

Not sure this works at all.

But this is one of only two responses to the question that I have posed that really legitimately address the question.

Good post.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by milkman

We saw Parker make plays as a blitzer, but we have no idea how he works in coverage.
I agree, though, that is one thing that Sutton could have tried, but at the same time, he also has the benefit of actually seeing Parker in practice.

We don't but, again, I partially have to blame him for that. In this league, you never know who you're going to be missing week in and week out. Guys get dinged up and miss plays, others get seriously injured and miss weeks. That's one of the main reasons you have depth.

It's not like our coverage schemes are all that difficult anyway. We were running man most of the time. He either could do it or he couldn't; there isn't much of a mental aspect involved.

We know for a fact that Dunta couldn't do it so why wasn't Parker given the opportunity? Honestly, is there any possible way that he could have been worse?

I am not convinced that Abdullah has the tools to play the single high safety position, and he lacks the versatility to be moved around in the defense that Berry brings to the field.

But, again, it might have been worth a look.

You might be right although I'd say he's likely faster than Lewis because Kendrick is slow as dog shit.

They were right to bring him along slowly to begin the season, having been away from football for a while, but it's hard for me to imagine that he'd have been worse than Kendrick by about week 13 or so.

Placing him at SS and Berry at FS likely would have forced us to change up some of our looks but we so desperately needed someone capable at FS. I think the drop off from Berry to Abdullah would have been outweighed heavily by the upgrade from Lewis to Berry.

The best way to stop those crossing routes, and really, any other short passes is sound fundamental tackling.
Those passes are going to be completed a majority of the time, so you have to minimize the gains, which forces the offense to start looking for bigger chunks in the passing game, allowing the pass rushers to get more pressure.

Cooper might/probaly would have benefitted from more practice in zone, but, at the same time, you might not want to overload him too early in his progression as a corner.
We know, however, that Sean Smith has historically sucked in zone.

Not sure this works at all.

But this is one of only two responses to the question that I have posed that really legitimately address the question.

Good post.

Right, which is why I like zone more when it comes to defending those especially considering they're two of our division rival's bread and butter plays. If we've got 4, 5, 6 or 7 sets of eyes in coverage all looking in front of them, we'll likely have a better chance to lay some clean licks on guys streaking across the field as well as the opportunity to put more bodies on them if they're able to make the catch.

I just got tired of seeing Peyton dump off a quick hitter to a guy on a drag route with one of our CBs 2 or 3 yards behind him in pursuit, only to allow 10 additional YAC because everyone's eyes are on their man.

I'm sure it's not so simple as saying "Let's run moe zone!" but it is something that needs to be addressed. It's not like our personnel is way off. Flowers is strong in zone while Smith isn't but Cooper is sort of a blank slate. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens after the draft..

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Going back to the playoff loss to Indy ,all Sutton had to do was get Hilton covered . Double team his ass. That's all he had to do. giving up a 28 point lead is bullshit.

Robinson and Lewis are now gone so coaches knew our weaknesses and hopefully we can upgrade in this draft. Hopefully commings will be a stud. don't know.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

Going back to the playoff loss to Indy ,all Sutton had to do was get Hilton covered . Double team his ass. That's all he had to do. giving up a 28 point lead is bullshit.

Robinson and Lewis are now gone so coaches knew our weaknesses and hopefully we can upgrade in this draft. Hopefully commings will be a stud. don't know.

Hilton was doubled teamed.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Originally Posted by milkman

Hilton was doubled teamed.

By the invisibles ?????

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer

By the invisibles ?????

We could have lined up two old women in walkers against Hilton and they would have been just as effective as the combination of Lewis and Robinson were.