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Old 04-21-2020, 09:20 PM  
staylor26 staylor26 is offline
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LNBS: Did Reid force Dorsey out because he didn’t want to lose Veach
I was explaining to a buddy how Veach was the guy that found Mahomes, and it got me thinking.

Dorsey was fired after Ballard was hired by the Colts, and the timing was weird. I don’t doubt that Dorsey’s issues were part of the reason as well, but something tells me Reid was scared to lose a guy who he knew had a special eye for talent and found his QB.
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:06 AM   #46
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Good thing Buffalo hired Beane.

My understanding is that Beane was a paper pusher in Carolina, not a scout but he was buddies with the Buffalo coach McDermott. If it had been on merit Veach would have got that job.

https://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bi...ills-gm-search
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:08 AM   #47
mililo4cpa mililo4cpa is offline
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I don't necessarily think it was any one reason why Dorsey was canned....probably several. But this thought is plausible as one of those many reasons....
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:27 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by staylor26 View Post
I understand Dorsey was a complete dick, and I said from the beginning that I understand that was a huge factor.

But Reid knew he was dumping his GF for a hotter younger one. No doubt in my mind.

Again, both things can be true. Those kinds of decisions, especially being made right after you draft your franchise QB, aren’t made in a vacuum.
This is a terrible take
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #49
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I think Dorsey must just rub people the wrong way.

Its weird that he got canned by both the Chiefs and the Browns fairly quickly.

Great talent scout, but everything else is lacking....
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:44 AM   #50
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This is a terrible take
How is it terrible you butt****ing moron?
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:45 AM   #51
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I think it's clear that Dorsey doesn't play well with others.

I think it's clear that Andy likes Veach and wanted to keep him.

When Dorsey passed the point of no return with Reid and Clark, I think they did due diligence looking at qualified candidates, but I think Reid was probably pushing for Veach. After consideration, Clark agreed.

I think it's that simple.
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:49 AM   #52
staylor26 staylor26 is offline
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I hate to sound like Dane, but you're speculating.

It's a fun theory and all, but I don't buy it being the determining factor in letting go of Dorsey.
Didn’t say it was. I told you I know that Dorsey being an asshole was a huge factor and maybe even the biggest.

You’re also speculating that it was all because Dorsey was a jackass and that Veach wasn’t already their guy. How is that any different from my speculation? Sure, you’re connecting dots based on what happened with Dorsey in Cleveland and reports of him being an asshole with both teams, but I’m also connecting dots based on Reid’s history with Veach, Veach’s success, reports on him being Reid’s go to guy when finding talent going back to Philly (McCoy, DJax, Cox etc.), and the fact that he’s the guy given credit for finding Mahomes. How is that any different?
Last edited by staylor26; 04-22-2020 at 10:04 AM..
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:50 AM   #53
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He also seems very loose and fun to be around, I can’t say the same for Dorsey.
I'll play devil's advocate. We got to meet Dorsey a few years back and he was genuinely nice. Maybe we just caught him on a good day?
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:07 AM   #54
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Also, this theory of "Reid didn't want to let go of the guy with the real talent" kind of spits in the face of Andy's leadership and teaching philosophy.

Everybody on the Andy Reid coaching tree tells you about how supportive he is to all of his guys, and how he cares about them as men more than he cares about them as employees. He's not afraid to let go of great coaches so they can get promotions. I know that's basically any guy with a coaching tree, but in 21 years Andy has had some damn good assistants come through his ranks, and he's never removed the guy ahead of him on the staff just so he wouldn't lose the more impressive coach.

For all of Dorsey's faults, he DID make the Mahomes trade happen. That's nice that Veach was the one who found the guy and all, but Dorsey is the one who kept things quiet, found the perfect spot in the draft to perform the trade up, and negotiated a pretty cheap deal for the trade up. It happened under his LEADERSHIP. If Dorsey wasn't such a ****ing asshole and knew how to better manage the cap, why would Andy want to get rid of him? Yeah, he had an impressive underling. But the guy in charge got the job done for the most valuable player this franchise has ever seen.

Veach would have left, but there would have been guys who take his place. Just like Andy's coaching staffs. If you're good at hiring and teaching your scouts, it all works out.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:09 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by RealSNR View Post
Also, this theory of "Reid didn't want to let go of the guy with the real talent" kind of spits in the face of Andy's leadership and teaching philosophy.

Everybody on the Andy Reid coaching tree tells you about how supportive he is to all of his guys, and how he cares about them as men more than he cares about them as employees. He's not afraid to let go of great coaches so they can get promotions. I know that's basically any guy with a coaching tree, but in 21 years Andy has had some damn good assistants come through his ranks, and he's never removed the guy ahead of him on the staff just so he wouldn't lose the more impressive coach.

For all of Dorsey's faults, he DID make the Mahomes trade happen. That's nice that Veach was the one who found the guy and all, but Dorsey is the one who kept things quiet, found the perfect spot in the draft to perform the trade up, and negotiated a pretty cheap deal for the trade up. It happened under his LEADERSHIP. If Dorsey wasn't such a ****ing asshole and knew how to better manage the cap, why would Andy want to get rid of him? Yeah, he had an impressive underling. But the guy in charge got the job done for the most valuable player this franchise has ever seen.

Veach would have left, but there would have been guys who take his place. Just like Andy's coaching staffs. If you're good at hiring and teaching your scouts, it all works out.
Man, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree because there’s a clear lack of understanding here that I can’t seem to clear up for some reason.

I’ve conceded over and over that Dorsey is an asshole and it was probably the bigger factor in his actual firing, but you keep talking as if I’m saying Dorsey was fired simply to keep Veach.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:10 AM   #56
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Didn’t say it was. I told you I know that Dorsey being an asshole was a huge factor and maybe even the biggest.

You’re also speculating that it was all because Dorsey was a jackass and that Veach wasn’t already their guy. How is that any different from my speculation? Sure, you’re connecting dots based on what happened with Dorsey in Cleveland and reports of him being an asshole with both teams, but I’m also connecting dots based on Reid’s history with Veach, Veach’s success, reports on him being Reid’s go to guy when finding talent going back to Philly (McCoy, DJax, Cox etc.), and the fact that he’s the guy given credit for finding Mahomes. How is that any different?
No, it's not speculation. That's what was said by Clark Hunt himself. And on top of that, Terez Paylor put out multiple articles describing what likely went down. Clark didn't say, "Dorsey sucks" but he basically said it with whatever language he chose to use. "We needed better communication, so we chose to go in a different direction" or whatever it was.

Again, if you're more convinced by your narrative, that's cool, but I'm just telling you the official one on the books.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:19 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by RealSNR View Post
No, it's not speculation. That's what was said by Clark Hunt himself. And on top of that, Terez Paylor put out multiple articles describing what likely went down. Clark didn't say, "Dorsey sucks" but he basically said it with whatever language he chose to use. "We needed better communication, so we chose to go in a different direction" or whatever it was.

Again, if you're more convinced by your narrative, that's cool, but I'm just telling you the official one on the books.
I’m not saying it’s speculation that Dorsey was an asshole and it got him fired. I’m saying it’s speculation that it was the only factor and that they didn’t view Veach as their guy before they actually made the move. It’s easier to let somebody go in June when you already have your guy.

I think the real point that I’m trying to make here is that Reid knew what he had in Veach, he probably didn’t want to lose him, and all the combined with Dorsey being a jackass made it really easy to fire him after we just drafted Mahomes. They weren’t going to fire Dorsey and bring somebody in that had nothing to do with the biggest move the franchise has ever made right after they made it.
Last edited by staylor26; 04-22-2020 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:52 AM   #58
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everything isn't a conspiracy guys, with nefarious characters carrying on evil secret plans.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:58 AM   #59
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everything isn't a conspiracy guys, with nefarious characters carrying on evil secret plans.
Who the **** said there was a conspiracy?
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Old 04-22-2020, 11:00 AM   #60
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Who the **** said there was a conspiracy?
why did you take that specifically personally?

I was referring to several posts by several posters.

that's why I didn't quote anyone in particular.

If it doesn't apply to you, then don't apply it.
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