***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

2022 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

#stlcards on opening day:

Carlson 9
Goldschmidt 3
O’Neill 7
Arenado 5
Pujols DH
DeJong 6
Molina 2
Bader 8
Edman 4

Wainwright 1

— Jeff Jones (@jmjones) April 7, 2022

2022 Opening Day roster

Spoiler!

Pitchers: Adam Wainwright, Miles Mikolas, Steven Matz, Dakota Hudson.

Relievers: Jordan Hicks, Drew VerHagen, Jake Woodford, Giovanny Gallegos, Ryan Helsey, A. Pallante, Genesis Cabrera, TJ McFarland, Nick Wittgren, Kodi Whitley, Aaron Brooks.

Catchers: Yadier Molina, Andrew Knizner.

Infielders: Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Arenado, Tommy Edman, Paul DeJong, Albert Pujols, Edmundo Sosa

Outfielders: Tyler O’Neill, Harrison Bader, Dylan Carlson, Corey Dickerson, Lars Nootbaar.

On the injured list are Jack Flaherty and Alex Reyes

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

2021 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124
2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[Marco Polo]

Looks like we also got a former first round pick RP.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I'm all for getting Soto as long as one of Walker and Gorman stays. Will be disappointed if they don't acquire a starter, though.

You want this generations Ted Williams but not at the expense of a guy who’s never sniffed MLB.

Baltimore Os fans were infamous for these takes

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

You want this generations Ted Williams but not at the expense of a guy who’s never sniffed MLB.

Baltimore Os fans were infamous for these takes

I think giving up Gorman + Walker would be asinine to go along with Winn and Carlson as well as McGreevy or Liberatore for Soto for 2.5 years.

Perfectly fine giving up Gorman, Winn, Carlson, and McGreevy/Liberatore or Walker with the same package instead of Gorman. Not both Gorman and Walker.

I believe Walker is the real deal as well as Gorman. CF could be a big issue in the immediate term if Bader's hurt and Carlson's traded. I feel that Gorman, Winn, Carlson, and McGreevy/Liberatore would be more than fair. That's over 20 years of service time with a high end prospect, rookie with high end talent at 2B, established above average young OF, and mid-rotation prospects for 2.5 years of Soto.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Sounds like a great trade. Solid replacement for Matz this year. Still need another arm.

Quintana deal also includes RHP Chris Stratton coming to the #stlcards, according to a source. He's made 40 appearances, 39 in relief for the #Pirates. Former first-round pick has 37 Ks in 40 2/3 innings.

Story will be updated:https://t.co/ur7P6y6oBE

— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) August 2, 2022

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I think giving up Gorman + Walker would be asinine to go along with Winn and Carlson as well as McGreevy or Liberatore for Soto for 2.5 years.

Perfectly fine giving up Gorman, Winn, Carlson, and McGreevy/Liberatore or Walker with the same package instead of Gorman. Not both Gorman and Walker.

I believe Walker is the real deal.

So you would be cool with Walker + Carlson and those other guys but not Walker + Gorman and those other guys?

Wtf? You can more easily replace Gorman and Carlson was/is the better "prospect."

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I think giving up Gorman + Walker would be asinine to go along with Winn and Carlson as well as McGreevy or Liberatore for Soto for 2.5 years.

Perfectly fine giving up Gorman, Winn, Carlson, and McGreevy/Liberatore or Walker with the same package instead of Gorman. Not both Gorman and Walker.

I believe Walker is the real deal as well as Gorman. CF could be a big issue in the immediate term if Bader's hurt and Carlson's traded. I feel that Gorman, Winn, Carlson, and McGreevy/Liberatore would be more than fair. That's over 20 years of service time with a high end prospect, rookie with high end talent at 2B, established above average young OF, and mid-rotation prospects for 2.5 years of Soto.

One 6war guy is worth 50% more than two 3war guys

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by jd1020

So you would be cool with Walker + Carlson and those other guys but not Walker + Gorman and those other guys?

Wtf? You can more easily replace Gorman and Carlson was/is the better "prospect."

Yes, because I don't think they have anyone who can play 2B in the minors if Gorman's traded and most 2B don't have his power. Everywhere he's gone, he's started off slow, adjusted, then raked. Losing Gorman AND Walker, along with Carlson and Winn, would be incredibly steep. Winn also leaving would still leave a void at 2B as Edman would have to be at SS (I'm not sold on a platoon of Donovan/DeJong being a viable option for IF help).

Soto is an immediate upgrade over Carlson. Carlson's the way better defender. Including him isn't some cheap throw in.

Walker also probably is even more highly rated than Carlson was (he's ranked 6th in all of MiLB currently. I think Carlson topped out at 14).

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

One 6war guy is worth 50% more than two 3war guys

And I'm all for going in for Soto, but man, I think Walker has a super high ceiling.

[jd1020]

When has Gorman raked other than in May when he was called up?

He had a 117 wRC+ for July with 33% strikeout rate. He's been a high strikeout hitter his entire career and that's going to limit his production.

I would give up Gorman in a ****ing heartbeat over Carlson.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by jd1020

When has Gorman raked other than in May when he was called up?

He had a 117 wRC+ for July with 33% strikeout rate. He's been a high strikeout hitter his entire career and that's going to limit his production.

I would give up Gorman in a ****ing heartbeat over Carlson.

Gorman has shown he takes time to adjust at each level he's been at (specifically at the A and AAA levels).

I guess I'm more willing to part with Carlson because Soto would immediately replace him in RF (you could argue why not just move Carlson to CF and have Bader as a 4th OF, which you might have a point) vs I don't think middle IF has much of anyone to assist with replacing at SS or 2B if Gorman is traded, especially if Winn is included in a trade.

[Prison Bitch]

Carlson Gorman Walker is fair trade value for Soto

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Carlson Gorman Walker is fair trade value for Soto

I mean, all 3 of these scenarios seem fair in terms of value:

Winn Gorman Carlson Liberatore

Gorman Carlson Walker

Walker Carlson Liberatore Winn

[jd1020]

"Fair value" when it comes to trading for Soto isn't a reality. They aren't going to trade him with the expectation that the team who acquires him is only going to have him for the remainder of his arbitration. And if your first proposed trade, without Walker, was "fair" then Soto would already be suiting up for the Cardinals because they reportedly already offered that.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by jd1020

"Fair value" when it comes to trading for Soto isn't a reality. They aren't going to trade him with the expectation that the team who acquires him is only going to have him for the remainder of his arbitration. And if your first proposed trade, without Walker, was "fair" then Soto would already be suiting up for the Cardinals because they reportedly already offered that.

In Juan Soto trade talks, #STLCards haven’t been willing to include Dylan Carlson *and* their top prospects in the same offer — at least, thus far. Negotiations are reaching a critical point. @MLBNetwork

— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) August 2, 2022

I think Carlson's necessary to include in any trade and can see why the Cardinals wouldn't want to.

I'm also operating under the assumption that Soto would be in St. Louis for 2.5 years. And I still think they can offer a package that's better than any team out there with regards to prospects.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

In Juan Soto trade talks, #STLCards haven’t been willing to include Dylan Carlson *and* their top prospects in the same offer — at least, thus far. Negotiations are reaching a critical point. @MLBNetwork

— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) August 2, 2022

I think Carlson's necessary to include in any trade and can see why the Cardinals wouldn't want to.

I'm also operating under the assumption that Soto would be in St. Louis for 2.5 years. And I still think they can offer a package that's better than any team out there with regards to prospects.

Problem right now is if Carlson is traded they don't have anyone healthy to play CF. Who they going to run out there Nootbar?