Does a person have the Right to die? - Page 5

Mr. Laz · 03:49 PM

well ... don't just sit there looking goofy

answer the d@m question

[/edit] yes, anyone has the ability to die ... the question is does society have the right to control someone's ultimate personal freedom, their life?

PastorMikH · 03-23-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

but that isn't the point ...

Laz, I have provided ample material as to where I stand. If you can't figure out my stance based on what I've said, there's no point in me re-wording it over and over to help you understand.

Mr. Laz · 03-23-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

Laz, I have provided ample material as to where I stand. If you can't figure out my stance based on what I've said, there's no point in me re-wording it over and over to help you understand.

yea.. i guess

i was just waiting for you to actually say it

most people have been trying to straddle the fence between religious ideology and their desire for personal freedoms. This is one instance where the two issues conflict. Most just refuse to make a choice of either and find rationalizations to not take a side.

KCWolfman · 03-23-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

but that isn't the point ...

anyone CAN kill themselves ... the question is, does society have the right to prevent someone for deciding to die for any reason. Just trying to "talk them out of it" isn't the same either... of course people are going to try and talk the person out of it.

isn't one's life the ultimate personal freedom?

people keep talking about how the law doesn't matter because someone will be dead and therefore the law is basically toothless. But we are talking about personal freedoms here.

doesn't an individual have the right to do with their body what they will without society usually a law to control it?

So if someone wants to cut off their forearm, we should do nothing to stop it?

KCWolfman · 03-23-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer me

As bad as it sounds, I don't think Terry will starve to death in the way most of us think of it. Her brain stem has "decomposed" into spinal fluid. I seriously doubt she can even "think" or feel in the same way we do. I imagine she doesn't feel a thing....but I'm not one of her doctors so I can't say for sure.

From the KC Star today:

"According to court documents, doctors at North Kansas City diagnosed Sacaries-Barrios as comatose and suffering head injuries and a ruptured spleen. They placed him on a ventilator to assist his breathing and fed him through a tube.

When the hospital transferred Sacaries-Barrios to Alpine North on Dec. 23, his condition had stabilized, but he was in a persistent vegetative state, incapable of conscious thought or behavior.

A month later, a hospital physician said that his condition had not changed and that his long-term prognosis was poor, court records said.

.......

Meanwhile, Sacaries-Barrios is making a remarkable recovery. By early February, he appeared to be regaining consciousness. By the end of the month he was out of bed and talking. He's thinking of returning home.

“The man is coming back to life,” Chionuma said.

[/b]"

Obviously physicians are as in the dark regarding PVS as anyone else.

patteeu · 03-23-2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

From the KC Star today:

"According to court documents, doctors at North Kansas City diagnosed Sacaries-Barrios as comatose and suffering head injuries and a ruptured spleen. They placed him on a ventilator to assist his breathing and fed him through a tube.

When the hospital transferred Sacaries-Barrios to Alpine North on Dec. 23, his condition had stabilized, but he was in a persistent vegetative state, incapable of conscious thought or behavior.

A month later, a hospital physician said that his condition had not changed and that his long-term prognosis was poor, court records said.

.......

Meanwhile, Sacaries-Barrios is making a remarkable recovery. By early February, he appeared to be regaining consciousness. By the end of the month he was out of bed and talking. He's thinking of returning home.

“The man is coming back to life,” Chionuma said.

[/b]"

Obviously physicians are as in the dark regarding PVS as anyone else.

I read somewhere that there are two different PVS's. Persistent vegetative state and permanent vegetative state. The distinction between the two was something like the length of time the person had been vegetative. For the first year or so, it is merely a persistent vegetative state and after that it is deemed to be permanent because the likelihood of any meaningful recovery drops as the condition continues. It makes sense to me, but I don't remember where I read it.

In any event, if what I read is correct, your example is somewhat distinguishable from the TS case in that she has presumably been in this condition for 15 years whereas Sacaries-Barrios apparently began to recover well within a year.

Just food for thought. I have no links.

KCWolfman · 03-23-2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I read somewhere that there are two different PVS's. Persistent vegetative state and permanent vegetative state. The distinction between the two was something like the length of time the person had been vegetative. For the first year or so, it is merely a persistent vegetative state and after that it is deemed to be permanent because the likelihood of any meaningful recovery drops as the condition continues. It makes sense to me, but I don't remember where I read it.

In any event, if what I read is correct, your example is somewhat distinguishable from the TS case in that she has presumably been in this condition for 15 years whereas Sacaries-Barrios apparently began to recover well within a year.

Just food for thought. I have no links.

I have no doubt that ANY condition malingering for 15 years is bound to be more decisive than only one year. My point was that many people are using the term Persistent Vegetative State as an uncurable illness - that is obviously incorrect.

Mr. Laz · 03-23-2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

So if someone wants to cut off their forearm, we should do nothing to stop it?

that's the question...

if a person wants to modify their body or end their life, is it societies decision or the persons?

KCWolfman · 03-23-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

that's the question...

if a person wants to modify their body or end their life, is it societies decision or the persons?

Does society owe the individual while the individual owe's nothing to society?

My answer is no.

Mr. Laz · 03-23-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCWolfman

Does society owe the individual while the individual owe's nothing to society?

My answer is no.

sidestepping the real question yet again.

nevermind Russ, really it's not difficult ... yes or no .. if you don't want to answer then don't.

if you want to drone on for hours and hours about neverending bullchit then go back to DC.

KCWolfman · 03-23-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

sidestepping the real question yet again.

nevermind Russ, really it's not difficult ... yes or no .. if you don't want to answer then don't.

if you want to drone on for hours and hours about neverending bullchit then go back to DC.

Obviously you couldn't read, didn't read, or didn't like the last sentence.

It wasn't that difficult, was it?

View Poll Results: Does and mentally competent adult have the Right to die when they choose?
yes	65	90.28%
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03-22-2005, 05:56 PM
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	Does a person have the Right to die? well ... don't just sit there looking goofy answer the d@m question [/edit] yes, anyone has the ability to die ... the question is does society have the right to control someone's ultimate personal freedom, their life? Last edited by Mr. Laz; 03-23-2005 at 03:49 PM..
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