Raiders back in 1st Round - Page 5

HolmeZz · 04-20-2005, 06:04 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=2042190

Raiders have traded TE Doug Jolley and a 2nd rounder to the Jets for their 1st rounder.

Nightfyre · 04-21-2005, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

Not if the Cards, or anyone for that matter,trades a 2nd this year. Shoot, this year's draft is weak anyway so I don't understand why Carl covets the 2nd rounder.

maybe its because this is the best 2nd round ever seen in a draft before...

**HemiEd** · 04-21-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Logicslav

My, my get help immediately, Davis runs circles around Carl as GM, his problem is he won't just let his Coaches coach.

Really? So who put together the Group of miss-fits out in Oafland that has been revolting for several years. They basically had a mutiny a couple of years ago. Then, the owner did not back the coach, he sided with the players. They still have a bunch of malcontents. Sorry, that is not being a very good leader, GM or Owner. He sucks! But at least he is consistent on what he wears, the same crapt he wore 30 years ago.

Amnorix · 04-21-2005, 06:50 AM

Herm Edwards (coach of the Jets) is a nice guy, a solid coach, but suffers from the Schottenheimer/Cowher school of being unable to win the big game, for similar reasons. I do like him alot, and think he's a good coach anyway.

Terry Bradway, the GM of the Jets, is a flaming moron. An unbelievable idiot, and I really don't understand how he keeps his job. But, since I hate the Jets and all that they stand for, I applaud his stupidity.

Unfortunately, in this case, it benefits another team I hate -- the damned Raiders.

oldandslow · 04-21-2005, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Really? So who put together the Group of miss-fits out in Oafland that has been revolting for several years. They basically had a mutiny a couple of years ago. Then, the owner did not back the coach, he sided with the players. They still have a bunch of malcontents. Sorry, that is not being a very good leader, GM or Owner. He sucks! But at least he is consistent on what he wears, the same crapt he wore 30 years ago.

All I have to say is...

Super Bowl II
Super Bowl XI
Super Bowl XV
Super Bowl XVIII
Super Bowl XXXVII

Yeah, that Al Davis sure does suck...

I wish CP could suck the same way....

and I hate the friggin' raiders.

Gav Daddy · 04-21-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Really? So who put together the Group of miss-fits out in Oafland that has been revolting for several years. They basically had a mutiny a couple of years ago. Then, the owner did not back the coach, he sided with the players. They still have a bunch of malcontents. Sorry, that is not being a very good leader, GM or Owner. He sucks! But at least he is consistent on what he wears, the same crapt he wore 30 years ago.

buy into.

"he doesnt let his coaches, coach" ok. who gets the credit for us going to the s.b. a couple years ago? hmmm....that was the same year al won executive of the year. hmmm......

keep in mind ed, those misfits you are talking about went to the s.b. in jan of 03.

i have seen that "al, is a good gm but not a coach". really? he went 10-4 his first year with the raiders as their head coach and won coach of the year honors.

here's the grand kicker....

if al is so stupid why did lamar tag him for commish in the afl/nfl wars?

which leads to their falling out.... al was hired as commish to break the nfl who wanted a 70-30 split. after some hardball by al, the nfl all of a sudden wanted to negotiate. lamar, wanting to fall into the established blue blood order of the nfl told al to call the dogs off. that wasnt good enough for al. he wanted to castrated them. we were getting better ratings and al knew it. he didnt want to merge. lamar relented. lamar thinks al is out of control and al probably thinks lamar is a pussy.

are there any oldtimers here who know this to be true? c'mon. i know there are some old afl guys here who remember the afl stealing players from the nfl drafts and reappropriating them for the afl drafts. c'mon oldtimers... what was the final straw that sent al over the edge?

remember when the chiefs drafted gayle sayers and the nfl snagged him away from the afl draft? let's be honest here......the gayle sayers deal is what motivated the afl owners to go to war.

mean old al.

how bout lamar hired a shark to do a job all the way(bust the nfl) and when it started getting ugly, lamar called him off. one small problem. al aint a quitter. obviously. he actually worked for and didnt inherit his money.....

lot's of myth's running around about al and why he is a dirty rotten so and so. you dont always here the truth when the media and the league need a bad guy. the yankees are the bad guy in baseball. all leagues have a bad guy. it makes fiscal sense and it is good social psychology.

mean old al who went and visited dt in miami. there is another side to this "maverick" that some dont want to admit too.

**HemiEd** · 04-21-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gav Daddy

buy into.

"he doesnt let his coaches, coach" ok. who gets the credit for us going to the s.b. a couple years ago? hmmm....that was the same year al won executive of the year. hmmm......

keep in mind ed, those misfits you are talking about went to the s.b. in jan of 03.

And how did that work out? Seems like they imploded to me. Gannon had a great year but showed in the SB why the Chiefs discarded him. How has the team performed since then? What has been their earned draft position the two years since then? How many of that group are still on the "team?"

are there any oldtimers here who know this to be true? c'mon. i know there are some old afl guys here who remember the afl stealing players
from the nfl drafts and reappropriating them for the afl drafts. c'mon oldtimers... what was the final straw that sent al over the edge?
remember when the chiefs drafted gayle sayers and the nfl snagged him away for the nfl draft? let's be honest here......the gayle sayers deal is what motivated the afl owners to go to war.
mean old al.
This was actually before my time, very interesting stuff though!

lot's of myth's running around about al and why he is a dirty rotten so and so. you dont always here the truth when the media and the league need a bad guy. the yankees are the bad guy in baseball. all leagues have a bad guy. it makes fiscal sense and it is good social psychology.

Good Points here, he has accomplished the goal with me, I have hated him and the Raiders for 35 years now. Almost irrationally!

mean old al who went and visited dt in miami. there is another side to this "maverick" that some dont want to admit too

I must admit, that trip to visit DT did shock me. It does not fit with how he tried to destroy Marcus Allen.

Gav Daddy · 04-21-2005, 08:58 AM

on marcus i will be more than happy to tell you all about it. if your interested just let me know. i know some would rather just side in with the kc media(who btw have now turned on their own) than actually hear the sordid details.

we did implode at the s.b.. i can admit that. i can also say that tim brown was a cancer to our team(i have proof of that if anyone is interested).

i am the type of guy who roots for my organization. no player is above that organization. an organization is like a chain and is only as strong as it's weakest link. brown was a weak link. marcus was a weak link.

anyhoo, were you aware that cally wanted to primarily run on the cover 2/3 in the s.b.? brown, gannon, garner and rice all said, "let's stick with what got us here"! cally relented. barret got hauled off in a straight jacket and our team tried to throw on the best cover 2/3 in the league at the time. doesnt make sense, does it?

that wasnt al's fault.

cant have it both ways ed.

i dont care if you like al or not, but put things in perspective.

either al mostly hinders the organization or he mostly helps it. it's gotta be at least 51-49%, one way or the other.

should i give him his props or tear him down?

at least i know he spends every last dime that he can, and he doesnt have very deep pockets. he only owns like 37% of the team.

i know one thing about al. it's not a business to him. it's an adventure. he does everything he can to win. sometimes it pans out, sometimes it doesnt. but he is not AFRAID to roll the dice. he does not care about sell outs. he does not care about the established perception of him. he likes being an outcast. maybe he thinks he is teddy roosevelt at san juan hill or some shit, i dont know. but he TRIES. that's all i can ask for.

i am just thankful of the glory i have seen and watched over my lifetime.

i admire him for giving a kid 3 s.b. victories that i ACTUALLY got to watch.

i wouldnt trade him for any other owner. he may BE nuts(in some eye's) but he HAS nuts.

he started his career as an unpaid ,graduate asst. coach in the college ranks. he now is the majority owner of an nfl team with the majority of voting stocks on that team. so while he only owns 37% of ACTUAL stock, most of those stocks are VOTING stocks.

i hope he lives forever.

i wont go into his views on equality and fairness, except for one little thing. he didnt need to cheat the cap like denver did to win back to back s.b.'s.

milkman · 04-21-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

So I want to make sure I got this right, Carl is a better GM than the Jets GM, but nowhere near Al Davis or the Rat. Correct?

I think these trades help us get Surtain for a 4th round pick, and also increase the value of one of our safties. If Doug Jolley is worth that, Wesley should bw worth atleast the same to a team in need of a young Saftie.

No, Carl is not a better GM than the Jets GM.
Bradway is just showing what he learned under Carl, and is proving to be equally as bad.

Gav Daddy · 04-21-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

No, Carl is not a better GM than the Jets GM.
Bradway is just showing what he learned under Carl, and is proving to be equally as bad.

then keitzman has been up in that arrowhead ass on his radio show about them being cheap at best and incompetent at worst.

whitlock called carl out in the paper today.

the fans are near mutiny on the boards.

this is a quote from carl, while being asked a question by whitlock at yesterday's press conference, "we had a 95% renewal on our season tickets". what an astute thing to say to someone asking about the fans being mad at the lack of f.a. signings the last 2 years on defense.

you will get the 4th best corner in football.

i know how lamar thinks after all this time. you guys should flood those radio shows more often.

**HemiEd** · 04-21-2005, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gav Daddy

you will get the 4th best corner in football.

I hope you are correct on this and look forward to your version of the Marus Allen story anytime!

Gav Daddy · 04-21-2005, 11:05 PM

i actually hope i am not right. i dont want you guys getting surtain. LOL! i just think it's gonna happen.

my opinion on the marcus thing.

he wanted more money before his rookie contract was up.
al agreed.
he then wanted to be the highest paid running back in the league.
again, al agreed.
the following year, eric dickersen signed a contract that made him the new, highest paid running back in the nfl.
marcus wanted al to redo his contract a 3rd time.
al did not agree this time. and rightfully so. can you imagine all this bending backward for a player prior to free agency? hell, team's dont do that now if they dont want to. it's not like al wasnt being more than fair.
marcus ran and bitched about it in the press.
beginning of rift.

al took a wild roulette spin, chance on bo jackson in the 7th round. all this after bo vehemently maintained he would not play football and only baseball. al took a gamble on him changing his mind and it panned out.

at this time bo was a better, fresher running back. i know that sounds crazy, but bo jackson was a bad mofo. also a heisman winner.

al wanted to make bo a running back and marcus a f.b. he figured that would be one helluva backfield with a bad ass like bo, and marcus in the backfield getting lots of touches and catches. think larry centers with the ability to REALLY run and cut when he got hand offs and yac. best possible backfield ever.marcus was a helluva blocker too(tony richardson never once complained about being bounced around to the press that i remember) solid team player who plays for alot less than marcus was getting. even back in those days).

marcus did not want what was best for the TEAM at the time. he wanted what was best for MARCUS. it was simply not good for marcus in his mind.

instead of marcus wanting to utilize the new heisman trophy winner, he decided to pout.

they had a rift, yet al has remained silent. marcus yells and screams to the press every chance he gets and just says, "i dont understand what the problem is". al was always "no comment". marcus would say various things about it over the years, but al was always solid and said nothing.

so when marcus starts getting all the pub around hall of fame time, he starts bringing it back up on t.v. and in the papers. al said nothing. no comment. i dont remember AL bringing it up, when he was getting pub for going into the hall of fame......

if marcus truly wanted to bury the hatchet he would have just called al up. hashed it out in private. this is if we are to believe that marcus is out for altruistic reasons to mend the relationship.keep in mind it was marcus who started the relationship to sour by flapping his gums to the press and bitching about more money when al already took care of him twice.

instead, marcus says on t.v., "that he wants to kiss and make up with al and just put it all behind them, but he doesnt know what the problem is". something to that effect.

it would be a helluva lot more appropriate to just call him. why the need to grandstand?

he knew al wasnt gonna show up on tv and kiss and make up on marcus' terms. al was NOT gonna let marcus look like the good guy after he continually would not honor his contracts and put the organization on front street. this is al davis we are talking about. as secret as they come. this is not your average owner who just hires others to do his work for him. he is not like a snyder who just got wealthy and bought a team as a fan of football.

this is a guy who worked his ass off to get where he is and he deserves some MUTUAL respect on even terms in private. not t.v.. get a grip. we all know al is like howard hughes. he is a workaholic and he is reclusive.

al was not gonna let the guy he thought SCREWED him, make up the time and the place on t.v. of all places. give me a break. LOL

let's face it. this surely is not the whole story. just my TAKE. i am not a mind reader. just observant(LOL) on all raider issues. plus marcus used to be my favorite raider. i was also an s.c. fan at the time as i am now.

that is just a counterpoint to the "al screwed marcus" takes i hear from people sometimes.

all i want to ask people is, how?
who screwed around with who, first?

here is a little something to think about. if al is so bad, why have more people chosen al to introduce them into the hall of fame, than anyone else?

life is all about perception. LOL!!!!

Raider Nation · 04-22-2005, 01:42 AM

Im glad the Raders are back in the 1st round they need to add speed to there defense. Gotta love Al The Pimp Davis he is always making moves

Redcoats58 · 04-22-2005, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beer bacon

Al is making Carl look like an idiot.

No... Carl is making Carl look like an idiot. He doesn't need any help.

Redcoats58 · 04-22-2005, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider Nation

Im glad the Raders are back in the 1st round they need to add speed to there defense. Gotta love Al "The Corpse" Davis he is always making moves

Here I fixed your post.

milkman · 04-22-2005, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gay Daddy

which leads to their falling out.... al was hired as commish to break the nfl who wanted a 70-30 split. after some hardball by al, the nfl all of a sudden wanted to negotiate. lamar, wanting to fall into the established blue blood order of the nfl told al to call the dogs off. that wasnt good enough for al. he wanted to castrated them. we were getting better ratings and al knew it. he didnt want to merge. lamar relented. lamar thinks al is out of control and al probably thinks lamar is a pussy.

I've talked about this a couple of times when I've discussed reasons that the Chiefs and Raiders simply don't deal with each other.

It's not talked about in the media, but this created a rift between Lamar and Al, and they absolutely despise each other, because of it.

04-20-2005, 06:04 PM
HolmeZz i guess its bittersweet poetry Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NeW HaVeN, CT Casino cash: $10004900	Raiders back in 1st Round http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=2042190 Raiders have traded TE Doug Jolley and a 2nd rounder to the Jets for their 1st rounder.
Posts: 16,520

04-21-2005, 06:50 AM	#63
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Herm Edwards (coach of the Jets) is a nice guy, a solid coach, but suffers from the Schottenheimer/Cowher school of being unable to win the big game, for similar reasons. I do like him alot, and think he's a good coach anyway. Terry Bradway, the GM of the Jets, is a flaming moron. An unbelievable idiot, and I really don't understand how he keeps his job. But, since I hate the Jets and all that they stand for, I applaud his stupidity. Unfortunately, in this case, it benefits another team I hate -- the damned Raiders.
Posts: 43,125

04-21-2005, 08:58 AM	#67
Gav Daddy Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Casino cash: $10004900	when you're ready for the real story on marcus i will be more than happy to tell you all about it. if your interested just let me know. i know some would rather just side in with the kc media(who btw have now turned on their own) than actually hear the sordid details. we did implode at the s.b.. i can admit that. i can also say that tim brown was a cancer to our team(i have proof of that if anyone is interested). i am the type of guy who roots for my organization. no player is above that organization. an organization is like a chain and is only as strong as it's weakest link. brown was a weak link. marcus was a weak link. anyhoo, were you aware that cally wanted to primarily run on the cover 2/3 in the s.b.? brown, gannon, garner and rice all said, "let's stick with what got us here"! cally relented. barret got hauled off in a straight jacket and our team tried to throw on the best cover 2/3 in the league at the time. doesnt make sense, does it? that wasnt al's fault. cant have it both ways ed. i dont care if you like al or not, but put things in perspective. either al mostly hinders the organization or he mostly helps it. it's gotta be at least 51-49%, one way or the other. should i give him his props or tear him down? at least i know he spends every last dime that he can, and he doesnt have very deep pockets. he only owns like 37% of the team. i know one thing about al. it's not a business to him. it's an adventure. he does everything he can to win. sometimes it pans out, sometimes it doesnt. but he is not AFRAID to roll the dice. he does not care about sell outs. he does not care about the established perception of him. he likes being an outcast. maybe he thinks he is teddy roosevelt at san juan hill or some shit, i dont know. but he TRIES. that's all i can ask for. i am just thankful of the glory i have seen and watched over my lifetime. i admire him for giving a kid 3 s.b. victories that i ACTUALLY got to watch. i wouldnt trade him for any other owner. he may BE nuts(in some eye's) but he HAS nuts. he started his career as an unpaid ,graduate asst. coach in the college ranks. he now is the majority owner of an nfl team with the majority of voting stocks on that team. so while he only owns 37% of ACTUAL stock, most of those stocks are VOTING stocks. i hope he lives forever. i wont go into his views on equality and fairness, except for one little thing. he didnt need to cheat the cap like denver did to win back to back s.b.'s.
Posts: 109

04-21-2005, 11:05 PM	#71
Gav Daddy Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Casino cash: $10004900	i actually hope i am not right. i dont want you guys getting surtain. LOL! i just think it's gonna happen. my opinion on the marcus thing. he wanted more money before his rookie contract was up. al agreed. he then wanted to be the highest paid running back in the league. again, al agreed. the following year, eric dickersen signed a contract that made him the new, highest paid running back in the nfl. marcus wanted al to redo his contract a 3rd time. al did not agree this time. and rightfully so. can you imagine all this bending backward for a player prior to free agency? hell, team's dont do that now if they dont want to. it's not like al wasnt being more than fair. marcus ran and bitched about it in the press. beginning of rift. al took a wild roulette spin, chance on bo jackson in the 7th round. all this after bo vehemently maintained he would not play football and only baseball. al took a gamble on him changing his mind and it panned out. at this time bo was a better, fresher running back. i know that sounds crazy, but bo jackson was a bad mofo. also a heisman winner. al wanted to make bo a running back and marcus a f.b. he figured that would be one helluva backfield with a bad ass like bo, and marcus in the backfield getting lots of touches and catches. think larry centers with the ability to REALLY run and cut when he got hand offs and yac. best possible backfield ever.marcus was a helluva blocker too(tony richardson never once complained about being bounced around to the press that i remember) solid team player who plays for alot less than marcus was getting. even back in those days). marcus did not want what was best for the TEAM at the time. he wanted what was best for MARCUS. it was simply not good for marcus in his mind. instead of marcus wanting to utilize the new heisman trophy winner, he decided to pout. they had a rift, yet al has remained silent. marcus yells and screams to the press every chance he gets and just says, "i dont understand what the problem is". al was always "no comment". marcus would say various things about it over the years, but al was always solid and said nothing. so when marcus starts getting all the pub around hall of fame time, he starts bringing it back up on t.v. and in the papers. al said nothing. no comment. i dont remember AL bringing it up, when he was getting pub for going into the hall of fame...... if marcus truly wanted to bury the hatchet he would have just called al up. hashed it out in private. this is if we are to believe that marcus is out for altruistic reasons to mend the relationship.keep in mind it was marcus who started the relationship to sour by flapping his gums to the press and bitching about more money when al already took care of him twice. instead, marcus says on t.v., "that he wants to kiss and make up with al and just put it all behind them, but he doesnt know what the problem is". something to that effect. it would be a helluva lot more appropriate to just call him. why the need to grandstand? he knew al wasnt gonna show up on tv and kiss and make up on marcus' terms. al was NOT gonna let marcus look like the good guy after he continually would not honor his contracts and put the organization on front street. this is al davis we are talking about. as secret as they come. this is not your average owner who just hires others to do his work for him. he is not like a snyder who just got wealthy and bought a team as a fan of football. this is a guy who worked his ass off to get where he is and he deserves some MUTUAL respect on even terms in private. not t.v.. get a grip. we all know al is like howard hughes. he is a workaholic and he is reclusive. al was not gonna let the guy he thought SCREWED him, make up the time and the place on t.v. of all places. give me a break. LOL let's face it. this surely is not the whole story. just my TAKE. i am not a mind reader. just observant(LOL) on all raider issues. plus marcus used to be my favorite raider. i was also an s.c. fan at the time as i am now. that is just a counterpoint to the "al screwed marcus" takes i hear from people sometimes. all i want to ask people is, how? who screwed around with who, first? here is a little something to think about. if al is so bad, why have more people chosen al to introduce them into the hall of fame, than anyone else? life is all about perception. LOL!!!!
Posts: 109

04-22-2005, 01:42 AM	#72
Raider Nation Rookie Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $10004900	Im glad the Raders are back in the 1st round they need to add speed to there defense. Gotta love Al The Pimp Davis he is always making moves
Posts: 1