The #1 reason CP should say YES to Al Saunders - (And the main reason he won't) - Page 5

B_Ambuehl · 12-26-2005, 10:53 AM

Forget about the fact that he's coordinated the top offense in the nfl the last 4 years. Forget the fact that he's obviously the best candidate available and already on the staff. Forget the fact that whether he stays or goes could decide whether hall of famers on the offensive line stay or go.

The real reason Saunders should be named head coach is right here. The real reason Saunders WON'T be named head coach is also right here as well.

This was from last summer and I bookmarked it for future reference.

Some of you may recall a guy from the coalition by the name of "former db" from training camp last year. He's a media guy and former football player from Pittsburgh who is also a die hard chiefs fan. He covered the Chiefs training camp last year and provided some really good interviews and info. Anyway, he had this to say about a conversation with Frank Ganz last summer:

http://www.chiefscoalition.com/Forum...=29295&hl=ganz

Quote:

Some of you already know I'm up here in Pittsburgh. Frank Gantz Sr. lives here too and we're very familiar with each other because he is, of course the former coach and he knows me from my job as a television reporter.

Now that thats out of the way, I spotted Gantz and his wife in a grocery store, Whole Foods (bunch of healthy stuff).
He was wearing Chiefs shorts, t-shirt and cap, he made me laugh.

Anyway here are some of the things he shared with me based on the conversations he has with Vermeil about three times a week.

NEW COACH:
Gantz believes Herman Edwards will get strong consideration as the next Chiefs head coach, for a couple of reasons. First, he says head coaches wear out their welcome very fast, even if they're winners. Most importantly, he says the Chiefs front office is enamored with Edwards. Al Saunders will be considered too HOWEVER... HOWEVER, Saunders and Carl Peterson are the two primary parities in regards to the political in-fighting within the organziation. Gantz says the Saunders doesn't back down to Peterson, gets in his face and will tell him his ideas are wrong. They don't share the same philosophy in regards to player evaluations either. I got the strong impression, and Gantz feels this too, that Saunders would be the person to knock Peterson's ego sideways. So Gantz wouldn't be surpirsed if Saunders is passed over as Vermeil's successor.

LARRY JOHNSON:
He says the Chiefs are very sorry Derrick Blaylock is gone. They say that Larry Johnson can't do nearly as many things as Blaylock. They must reconfigure a lot of packages minimize Johnson's short-comings. Gantz says Johson can run, but there's a lot more to the game than just running the rock.

BOOMER GRIGSBY:
May be a starter. Gantz and I had fun talking about the MLB position, as does everyone else. Vermeil told him that Boomer is awesome and that Vermeil isn't letting on to how well this guy REALLY is to the media. Apparently, Boomer is ALWAYS, ALWAYS in position to make the tackle and his technique is flawless. Here's the funny part of our conversation, Gantz asked me why did Grigsby last until the 5th round. I'm like, DUHHHHH!!! He laughed like hell. Gantz and I both think the battle at MLB is between Boomer and Scanlon. He really likes Kawitka Mitchell but it doesn't seem like he's the answer. Everybody is caught up with Boomer's mentality and core toughness to play the position. I informed Gantz of Boomer's gymnastics background and he was even further impressed with the kid.

KENDRELL BELL:
He's NOT healthy from what Vermeil shared with Gantz. Now I thought Bell came back to practice after straining his groin. Perhaps Vermeil is keeping his health undercover but Gantz' voice was noticably grim when talking about Bell's health.
I just hope he is 100 percent by training camp.

GANTZ:
We plan on bumping into each other at training camp because Vermeil asked him to address the team and Gantz is excited to do so. He and I both believe the Chiefs were brilliant in drafting the punter in the third round. Now, while we talked for about 20 minutes, his wife was smoothly filling the cart. She's a wonderful lady, very understanding of two football nuts talking Chiefs football at the deli counter.

FringeNC · 12-26-2005, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

How many coordinators have success as head coach of the SAME team they were coordinator of? There's got to be some reason it's so rare.

As I have mentioned before, it rarely happens because coaches are fired, they don't retire...

George Seifert was pretty darn successful...Mike Martz was successful...what's his name in Oakland was successful following Gruden....

I actually bet the hit rate of assistants being promoted and being successful is higher than than fresh starts being successful. Just a guess, though.

FringeNC · 12-26-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefDave

The dude is gonna end up 1600+ rushing yards. How about bitching about something OTHER than something that produces results on the field. Our D sucks, and is inconsistant. Period. THAT is what is keeping us out of the play-offs. They laid a GIGANTIC ****ing egg in NY. If we had no LJ, we'd be sitting at 4-11...

With Priest/Blaylock/Johnson last year, we were better on offense. Our passing yards are down. We set a record for first downs last year. Think about that -- an NFL record for first downs --pretty amazing -- without LJ being the featured back.

Now to be fair, we'd have to take the games Roaf missed out of the equation. But my point is that LJ doesn't make this offense -- Saunders, Solari, and the OL make this offense go.

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-26-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

With Priest/Blaylock/Johnson last year, we were better on offense. Our passing yards are down. We set a record for first downs last year. Think about that -- an NFL record for first downs --pretty amazing -- without LJ being the featured back.

Now to be fair, we'd have to take the games Roaf missed out of the equation. But my point is that LJ doesn't make this offense -- Saunders, Solari, and the OL make this offense go.

I still do not think a healthy Priest rushes for 1600 yards this season even if he's carrying the load. Just look at the YPC of each back...

htismaqe · 12-26-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

That's just a defeatist attitude. We did it before and it didn't work, so it can't work again. Thinking with your emotions instead of your brain.

No, it's not a defeatist attitude at all. Just because it didn't work before doesn't mean it can't work now.

Get this straight - I DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT RESULTS.

I don't want to TRY anything we've TRIED before.

I don't want to elevate a coordinator, and I don't want to hire somebody else's Super Bowl coach.

I want to START FRESH. Clean slate.

tk13 · 12-26-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

No, it's not a defeatist attitude at all. Just because it didn't work before doesn't mean it can't work now.

Get this straight - I DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT RESULTS.

I don't want to TRY anything we've TRIED before.

I don't want to elevate a coordinator, and I don't want to hire somebody else's Super Bowl coach.

I want to START FRESH. Clean slate.

That's a great attitude to have. We haven't tried this before... looking through the history books I don't see one season that Al Saunders was the head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs.

htismaqe · 12-26-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

That's a great attitude to have. We haven't tried this before... looking through the history books I don't see one season that Al Saunders was the head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs.

Twist the words however you want.

Hiring Al Saunders to be HC says one thing to me:

This team thinks the last 5 years were a SUCCESS and they want to try and continue it.

THAT is a great attitude to have, especially if you don't care about every winning a playoff game.

tk13 · 12-26-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Twist the words however you want.

Hiring Al Saunders to be HC says one thing to me:

This team thinks the last 5 years were a SUCCESS and they want to try and continue it.

THAT is a great attitude to have, especially if you don't care about every winning a playoff game.

I don't think that's true at all. You're just being emotional again. You think Al would call the last 5 years a total success? You really think so? And you think Al would just carry on dong the same things DV did? I don't think so at all. Al's coached under Coryell, Marty, and DV... that's about as wide a range as you can get. I consider Al a unique individual, independent of all of those different coaches. And he's been successful with all of them.

With any team, Chiefs or otherwise, hiring Al means Al was a success, and he was. That's like saying you don't wanna hire Ron Rivera because his team's offense sucked and kept them from being successful.

Mr. Laz · 12-26-2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefDave

I still do not think a healthy Priest rushes for 1600 yards this season even if he's carrying the load. Just look at the YPC of each back...

but to be fair almost ALL of priest carries were without Willie roaf.

Larry became starter and was more suited to run inside which helped him have success without roaf AND THEN roaf came back which allowed him to start running outside too.

not a fair comparison really

FringeNC · 12-26-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

but to be fair almost ALL of priest carries were without Willie roaf.

Larry became starter and was more suited to run inside which helped him have success without roaf AND THEN roaf came back which allowed him to start running outside too.

not a fair comparison really

I think he's probably right about LJ having a higher YPC than Priest would have. That doesn't tell the whole story if yards per passsing attempt are down because Larry can't block as well as Priest, though.

Even with Roaf at full strength, our O was no better this year than last year.

I'm not bashing Larry at all. Saunders molds the offense around the strength of his players. Larry is a better runner, and Priest is a better blocker/receiver.

jspchief · 12-26-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

How many coordinators have success as head coach of the SAME team they were coordinator of? There's got to be some reason it's so rare.

How many coordinators have become head coach of the same team and improved that team? None that I can think of. A few may have been able to keep the boat afloat for a few more years, but I can't think of any that actually made the team better. Guys like Sherman and Callahan, Al Groh, etc. may have been able to drag out what the team already had, but they didn't make the team any better.

It's tempting to bring Saunders in to try and keep this offense in tact, but IMO the coach won't be the factor. Age will.

This offense is loaded with guys that are either fading or going to retire in the next year or two. We aren't going to be able to sign Saunders to just a two year contract. So in 2007 when half our O-line has retired, Gonzo has slowed enough to be rendered ineffective (if that hasn't happened already), and Green has lost his touch. We'll still have Saunders trying to rebuild something that's foundation has crumbled.

Saunders will make us all go down with the ship, while a new guy will be building a new ship.

Coogs · 12-26-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Priest, even when healthy at the beginning of the season, is no longer an elite back in this league. The fact that he was starting in front of LJ says loads about DV/AS ability to evaluate talent.

AS was the one who convinced the War Room that we needed to draft Kris Wilson. One can only imagine where our team would be without that 2nd round draft steal.

Hammock Parties · 12-26-2005, 04:21 PM

Saunders is overrated.

Our offense won't drop off without him as long as we keep the key players.

**jjchieffan** · 12-26-2005, 04:23 PM

Lets look at the next 5 years. Most likey the offense will remain intact that long, with the exception of Shields. In those 2 years, we are still legitimate contenders if AS is made head coach. After that, depending on draft choices and free agent moves, we more than likely move into rebuilding. If AS is not retained, a new system comes into play, and those 2 years go down the tube. Without AS, I say our record is no better than 6-10 next year. Is that what you really want? maybe you do. We might get a couple of top 5 draft picks in the next five years and rebuild with them. It worked 17 years ago when Carl and Marty came to town, but we still fell short in the end. We also did not have a top offense the year before. AS is the only choice that makes sense. Hopefully, CP will be showed the door by Clark. Side note, Are there any legitimate GM candidates out there to replace the king? Would Clark take it over? And would he be good at it if he did? I dont know much about him.

tk13 · 12-26-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gochiefs

Saunders is overrated.

Our offense won't drop off without him as long as we keep the key players.

Overrated? How so?

**jjchieffan** · 12-26-2005, 04:46 PM

If Saunders is so overrated, then lets just bring back Jimmy Raye. Thats what I thought. Saunders is a difference maker. His offense is very explosive. I wonder what would have happened had Marty given him the chance instead of Raye when he was here. I bet we would have had a couple of more playoff wins

12-26-2005, 04:21 PM	#72
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4420478	Saunders is overrated. Our offense won't drop off without him as long as we keep the key players. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 278,718

12-26-2005, 04:23 PM	#73
jjchieffan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Highlandville, MO Casino cash: $3172247	Lets look at the next 5 years. Most likey the offense will remain intact that long, with the exception of Shields. In those 2 years, we are still legitimate contenders if AS is made head coach. After that, depending on draft choices and free agent moves, we more than likely move into rebuilding. If AS is not retained, a new system comes into play, and those 2 years go down the tube. Without AS, I say our record is no better than 6-10 next year. Is that what you really want? maybe you do. We might get a couple of top 5 draft picks in the next five years and rebuild with them. It worked 17 years ago when Carl and Marty came to town, but we still fell short in the end. We also did not have a top offense the year before. AS is the only choice that makes sense. Hopefully, CP will be showed the door by Clark. Side note, Are there any legitimate GM candidates out there to replace the king? Would Clark take it over? And would he be good at it if he did? I dont know much about him.
Posts: 12,620

12-26-2005, 04:46 PM	#75
jjchieffan Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Highlandville, MO Casino cash: $3172247	If Saunders is so overrated, then lets just bring back Jimmy Raye. Thats what I thought. Saunders is a difference maker. His offense is very explosive. I wonder what would have happened had Marty given him the chance instead of Raye when he was here. I bet we would have had a couple of more playoff wins
Posts: 12,620