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Old 07-11-2007, 12:17 AM  
Hammock Parties Hammock Parties is offline
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Sounds like Rod Smith is done.

Stay down bitch!

http://www.gazette.com/sports/smith_...ning_camp.html

ENGLEWOOD – Denver Broncos wide receiver Rod Smith didn’t participate in any of the team’s offseason minicamp practices and said he doesn’t know whether his injured hip will allow him to be ready for the start of training camp.

The Broncos finished their final minicamp today. Training camp is set to begin July 29. Smith, who had arthroscopic hip surgery shortly after last season, said he has been extra cautious with his recovery. He said he’ll continue to play it safe because he doesn’t want to set himself back, even if that means missing some of training camp.

“I hope to, but if I don’t, I don’t think it’s the end of the world,” Smith said about being ready for the start of training camp. “Football season starts in September, and that’s what I’m looking forward to.”

Smith said he felt some inflammation in the hip this week. He stood with the rest of the receivers during Tuesday’s practice wearing a gray sweat suit.

Smith, 37, said he hasn’t considered retiring.

“If I think that, then I’ll quit,” Smith said.

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said there was no timetable on Smith’s return, but he would continue to work out the next three weeks, and the team would re-evaluate his status before training camp.

“We don’t want to push him too hard and set him back,” Shanahan said.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:48 AM   #61
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Ok - then I won't bother going through his info. If you want me to play your game, then step into the octagon with a viable candidate. I've done that with Rod Smith.

You can't really play devil's advocate by using a player that you don't believe belongs in the HOF. And, jumping into the fray with a guy that doesn't play the same position ... well, that's not really going to help your argument much.

Come back when you're ready.


I can't make a serious defense for a comparable player because I honestly don't think Rod Smith belongs in the HoF.

I do know that if career production and historical consistency and longevity are as important as #s of Pro Bowls or how elite you're considered at your position, Donnie's just about as qualified as Rod.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:57 AM   #62
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun


I can't make a serious defense for a comparable player because I honestly don't think Rod Smith belongs in the HoF.

I do know that if career production and historical consistency and longevity are as important as #s of Pro Bowls or how elite you're considered at your position, Donnie's just about as qualified as Rod.
No worries, I thought maybe you were willing to bring more than just "I don't think he's worthy" to the table when you jumped in with the elite info. Surely you can scan the NFL over the last decade for a player to use as a "not Rod, but yes to this guy"... but, that's cool.

I compared Rod to Irvin... Irvin is going in on his 3rd year of eligibility and with equal playing time in the NFL, comparing the former 1st round loud mouth with all the glitz of playing on the 90s Cowboys... Smith goes toe to toe with him on production, accolades, force at the position and longevity.

Do you think Irvin deserves his HOF status?
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:59 AM   #63
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He is done for and was last year but ego wont let him admit hes a 3rd tstring talent now and not the light it up guy he was once
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:17 PM   #64
stevieray stevieray is offline
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Damn... I have to save this as I think it's the first good thing ever that you have typed about a donkey.
mellowing with age...
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:28 PM   #65
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
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He is done for and was last year but ego wont let him admit hes a 3rd tstring talent now and not the light it up guy he was once
Rod is 37, so without question he's at the end of his career. Is he a #1 guy? No... most likely is a #3 and in that offense, he could do very well. If you think Rod doesn't understand his situation, you're crazy.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:17 PM   #66
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They'll put his bust right next to Floyd Little's.

Seriously, Rod Smith had a very good career. But if you think Rod Smith will get into the HOF with those numbers and only 3 PB, you are delusional.

I think Irvin is a border line HOF candidate. But comparing the two helps illustrate why Rod Smith will never make the HOF.

1) Irvin was at one time considered one of the top 2 or 3 players at his position, no one ever said that about Rod Smith.
2) Irvin has 5 PB, Smith 3.
3) Irvin was considered one of the 3 big skill players that took Dallas to three titles. In Smith's case, it was Elway and Davis that are seen as the key skill players for the Bronco's two titles. If you throw in a receiver, it's probably Sharpe, not Smith. Sharpe will make it regardless because of his excellence at his position.
4) Irwin made a bigger impact when he was "on". He averaged 2.5 additional yards per reception than Smith and had 4 seasons over 1300 yards compared to only 2 for Smith.
5) There are a ton of WR ahead of Smith with equal or better stats and all have more Pro Bowls: Rice, Tim Brown, Andre Reed, Michael Irvin, Cris Carter, Irving Fryar, Jimmy Smith. A few years after Smith becomes eligible he is going to be going up against Marvin Harrison, Issac Bruce, and TO. Rod Smith just isn't going to stand out in that crowd.
6) Art Monk isn't in (and doesn't look to make it any time soon) and there is not one reason why Rod Smith should get in before Art Monk.
7) The 2x champion Broncos are not the 4x champion Steelers. Hall voters aren't going to give HOF busts to every starter on the Broncos like they did to the Steelers. So save any comparisons to Stallworth and Swan.
8)
Montana to Rice for the TD!!
Young to Rice for the TD!!
Marino to Clayton for the TD!!
Manning to Harrison for the TD!!
Aikemen to Irvin for the TD!!
Elway to ?? for the TD?

Rod Smith and Elway were together for 4 years. During that time, Smith did not have any years that just made you go WOW. Watson, Miller, Johnson, Sharpe all had big years with Elway throwing to them. I think the lack of the instant Elway-to-Smith connection in peoples' minds will hurt Smith.


Anyone who thinks Rod Smith is anything more than a long shot at the HOF just isn't paying very close attention to the HOF process and what it takes to get in. And that is nothing against Rod Smith. Very good player, but he never stood out from the crowd enough to warrent serious HOF consideration.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:31 PM   #67
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Holy crap cdcox, you expended more effort on that post than any of our DBs ever did covering him.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:37 PM   #68
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
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You bring up some valid points and I've never said he's a lock. Guys that are locks don't typically generate much discussion, it's the guys on the fringe that do and that's where Rod will be when it's said and done.

I think he should get serious consideration.

One of the things you mentioned was the time that he and Elway were together... only 4 seasons.

In 1997 Rod was 8th in the NFL in rec yards and 3rd in rec TDs.
In 1998 Rod was 3rd in the NFL in #of rec's and 4th in rec Yards.

Those were the two SB years and yes Sharpe was a huge part of the passing game in those years (combined 1800+ yds and 13 TDs in those 2 years). Let's not forget about Ed in those two years with a combined 1600 yds receiving and 18 TDs.

Rod led them all in that 2 year period with nearly 2400 receiving yards and 18 TDs. Why am I focusing on these years? You brought it up and much like great teams, it's more than one guy... and despite having 2 other top notch receiving targets, Rod still had top production.

I don't know how much weight the # of Pro Bowl selections carries, b/c it's a popularity contest more than anything at certain positions.

In 1997, Andre Rison (KC) went to the Pro Bowl with less than 1100 rec yards and only 7 TDs... how did Rod Smith with 1180 yards and 12 TDs on that winning team not get in over Rison? Weirdness like that happens every year... both KC and Denver had solid records that season, but what made Rison a better PB candidate than Smith? Rison had 2 more receptions... less yards and 5 fewer TDs.

So, I'm not giving too much merit to the pro-bowl idea.

Everything else you mention has solid foundation, but to suggest that someone is delusional for thinking Rod has the credentials for Canton ... well, that is kinda lame.

It's the "passing era", so many guys are going to have the credentials - I will acknowledge that easily. But, I think Rod's book of work speaks for itself.

Rod only had Elway for 4 years (out of 12) that you mentioned...

Look what Rod did with Griese:
| 1999 den | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 79 1020 12.9 4 |
| 2000 den | 16 | 6 99 16.5 1 | 100 1602 16.0 8 |
| 2001 den | 15 | 3 27 9.0 0 | 113 1343 11.9 11 |
| 2002 den | 16 | 6 9 1.5 0 | 89 1027 11.5 5 |

Nobody will point to Griese as greatness, but Rod produced consistently.

I think it's a sports debate that is fun to have and will continue to be fun...
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:46 PM   #69
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I would also add that among those you listed that would keep Rod from "standing out"... Fryar, Jimmy Smith, Reed... I'll put Rod Smith up there ahead of them every day.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:38 PM   #70
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MHM - I agree it is fun.

In recent years, the HOF selectors have focused more on standing out from the pack than accumulating stats. This is the reason Art Monk hasn't gotten in. If the goal is to be to stand out from the pack, being considered "underated" is a huge disadvantage, because that label aready means that the perception in most people's mind is that you didn't stand out from the pack. Smith has good but not outstanding stats, considering that he played during the passing era.

Pro-Bowls are not a perfect indicator of who is the best in a given year, but the modern-era inductees tend to have 5 or more. For the exceptions, there appear to be explanations. Swann and Stallworth had 3, but they fall under the every-Steeler-goes-to-Canton rule. Hampton and Kelly only had 4. Hampton got in due to the 1985 Bears being considered one of the best of all time. He was only the 2nd player that defense to be inducted. Kelly was a QB of a 4x SB team, so PB are not a major consideration for him. I don't see a simialr arguement that applies to Rod Smith.

Here are the number of ProBowls for modern-era HOF inductees since 2000:


Howie Long – 8
Ronnie Lott - 10
Joe Montana – 8
Dave Wilcox – 7
Nick Buoniconti - 8
Mike Munchak – 9
Jackie Slater – 7
Lynn Swann – 3
Ron Yary – 7
Jack Youngblood – 7
Dave Casper – 5
Dan Hampton - 4
Jim Kelly – 4
John Stallworth – 3
Marcus Allen – 6
Elvin Bethea – 8
Joe DeLamielleure – 6
James Lofton – 8
Bob Brown – 6
Carl Eller – 6
John Elway – 9
Barry Sanders – 10
Dan Marino – 9
Steve Young – 7
Troy Aikman – 6
Harry Carson – 9
Warren Moon – 9
Reggie White – 13
Rayfield Wright – 6
Gene Hickerson – 6
Michael Irvin – 5
Bruce Matthews – 14
Charlie Sanders – 7
Thurman Thomas – 5
Roger Wehrli – 7
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:47 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Mile High Mania
I would also add that among those you listed that would keep Rod from "standing out"... Fryar, Jimmy Smith, Reed... I'll put Rod Smith up there ahead of them every day.
It's a good thing Bronco's homerism is officially sanctioned on Chiefs Planet.

Fryar beats Smith in yards, yards per reception and TDs. Also has 5 PB.
Jimmy Smith beats Smith in yards and yards per reception. Has 5 PBs.
Andre Reed beats Smith in yards, yards per reception and TDs. Has 7 PBs.

The only advantage Rod Smith has over these guys is the rings, which is not inconsequential in HOF balloting. That will probably put him in before Jimmy Smith, but not the other two.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:25 PM   #72
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
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It's a good thing Bronco's homerism is officially sanctioned on Chiefs Planet.

Fryar beats Smith in yards, yards per reception and TDs. Also has 5 PB.
Jimmy Smith beats Smith in yards and yards per reception. Has 5 PBs.
Andre Reed beats Smith in yards, yards per reception and TDs. Has 7 PBs.

The only advantage Rod Smith has over these guys is the rings, which is not inconsequential in HOF balloting. That will probably put him in before Jimmy Smith, but not the other two.
Well, again it's all statistics...

Fryar played for 17 seasons (compared to 12 so far for Rod)
However, Fryar only has 5 seasons with more than 1,000 yards (compared to 8 for Rod). And, Fryar has a ton of bland years.

Fryar has 9 seasons (out of 17) with fewer than 50 receptions... Fryar was able to play a LONG time and while he was a solid player, he was never dominant (only 2 seasons over 1200 yards and 7 seasons with fewer than 5 TDs).

So, yeah ... head to head, give me Rod Smith over Fryar.

Jimmy Smith - I'll admit, after a second look ... very formidable opponent in this discussion. Jimmy has a few more receptions (13) .. yards (898) and 1 less rec TD than Rod Smith.

Pro Bowls... sure, Jimmy has 2 more than Rod Smith, but again I'll point to the 1997 season just as I did with the Andre Rison example.

Jimmy Smith 1997 - 82 1324 16.1 4 TDs
Rod Smith 1997 - 70 1180 16.9 12

The reception difference is minimal and I'd say the same about the yardage. Look at the TDs though...

Again, Rod Smith had a pro bowl caliber season in 1997, yet Rison and Jimmy Smith were in the pro bowl. I don't put a lot of weight on pro bowls

I'll point to Rod's SB title in 1997... Rod may not have played in Hawaii that season, but he played the week prior and had fun.

Reed played for 16 seasons, compared to 12 for Rod. I am not suggesting that Reed is undeserving of consideration, but aside from those SB years... he wasn't elite and didn't stand out.

Reed had only 4 seasons over 1,000 yards. Reed tops Smith in the all-time rankings, but hanging around for 16 seasons will do that for a player, but he was never really dominant.

And again ... pro bowls. Yes, Reed has 7 Pro Bowls, but look at these 4:
| 1988 buf | 15 | 6 64 10.7 0 | 71 968 13.6 6 |
| 1990 buf | 16 | 3 23 7.7 0 | 71 945 13.3 8 |
| 1992 buf | 16 | 8 65 8.1 0 | 65 913 14.0 3 |
| 1993 buf | 15 | 9 21 2.3 0 | 52 854 16.4 6

Granted, some of that was the era... but not all of it.

If the HOF is about greatness, both personal and what you did at your position in helping your team win over the course of time... then yeah, I'll stand by Rod Smith against these guys.

If playing for 16-17 seasons with a lot of years as just being "a guy" piling up stats get you into Canton, then good for them. I'll put Rod's body of work up against any of those guys you put out there.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:32 PM   #73
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I am sure the Cheatin donks can find another slow receiver for their POS QB to overthrow.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:33 PM   #74
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And just as a refresher... I'll repost this information for those of you playing at home. Find me a better candidate (not widely viewed as a lock, ie Rice, Brown, Carter) in this "era" and I'm willing to spar with ya.

----
Rod Smith - undrafted rooked free agent in 1995

ALL TIME Rankings for NFL Receivers:

#11 in Receptions - 849
#17 in Receiving Yards - 11,389
#30 (tied) in Receiving TDs - 68
#42 in Yards from Scrimmage

Playoff #'s - 49 receptions for 860 yards and 6 TDs in 12 games. Rod had 5 receptions of 152 yards and 1 TD in the SB vs ATL and had it not been for Elway having a huge game, Rod could have been SB MVP (many thanks to Eugene Robinson).

Rod Smith has the most receptions and yards (not sure about TDs) for any UDFA WR in NFL History.

3 time pro bowler
2 SB Titles
8 seasons (out of 12) with over 1,000 yds receiving
9 straight seasons as the leading receiver on the team
9 straight seasons with 70+ receptions
2 seasons with 100+ receptions

Finished a season within the top ten overall in receptions and receiving yards - 4 times. And, top 10 in TDs twice.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:34 PM   #75
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
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I am sure the Cheatin donks can find another slow receiver for their POS QB to overthrow.
Solid rebuttal... you make your fan base smile with pride.
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Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
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