Chiefs Explain to me why we need to give Herm more time - Page 5

**Dave Lane** · 12-17-2007, 11:14 AM

After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this.

Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures:

Tom Bettis - 1977
Frank Gansz - 1987-1988
Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000
Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977
John Mackovic - 1983-1986

Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past.

Dave

smittysbar · 12-17-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Cowher is basically a pipe dream.....

I'd wanna talk to whoever is Pioli's right hand man in NE is and see if we could hire him. That person has been in a successful organization and sees how things are done properly. Then go from there.

Best Idea I have heard yet. People wanting to stick with Herm another year have truly been sucked into CP's BS that he shoves down the throats of the Chief faithful. He has not done shit yet and won't do shit in the future, so why waist anymore time on this joker that should not have been brought here in the first place? It is officially time for a house cleaning! Clark needs to do this, for the team, and the fans. Chief fans have been very faithful over the years, and it is now obvious that we are fed up as a whole.

I also wonder, if Marty wanted to come in as GM, after the curb kicking (if it happens) would we be happy with this? I think I would. He has learned that it is a different day and age in the NFL. He wants to be a GM, and he liked KC. Wonder if him and the Hunts have hard feelings?

All in all I think it will be interesting after the season, to see what Clark will do......

FAX · 12-17-2007, 04:04 PM

Herm needs additional time to come up with some more crazy-ass sh*t to say, Mr. Dave Lane. Personally, I look forward to him throwing everybody on the team beneath the bus this off-season.

"Get under it!!".

FAX

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this.

Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures:

Tom Bettis - 1977
Frank Gansz - 1987-1988
Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000
Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977
John Mackovic - 1983-1986

Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past.

Dave

Vermiel was 14-18 his first 2 years
Herm will like be 13-19 his first 2 years

There is only ONE man on the Chiefs offensive line that would start for ANY other team in the NFL: Brian Waters.

Herm was left with a perennial #32 ranked defense and an aging offense that saw TWO HOF lineman retire in two consecutive years.

Herm has begun to stock the roster with talented *football players*, most of which have been solid. With ten picks in the 2008 draft and plenty of serviceable players available via free-agency, this team should compete for a playoff spot in 2008.

Herm should be given at least three years to overhaul the roster.

Then, it's on him to produce. If he doesn't, fire him.

Hammock Parties · 12-17-2007, 04:07 PM

I'm on the fence on this issue. What coach would have had this collection of inept talent further along at this point? We know Carl has meddled with the situation and delayed a true "rebuild," which is what Herm wanted from the start.

I don't think Herm is taking us anywhere, but he deserves the chance to build his own team. I guess what I'm trying to say is, give him as much rope to hang himself with as possible. If we're this bad in 2009, pull the plug.

Fish · 12-17-2007, 04:09 PM

Fire Clark Hunt!! It's the only way!!

**dirk digler** · 12-17-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Vermiel was 14-18 his first 2 years
Herm will like be 13-19 his first 2 years

There is only ONE man on the Chiefs offensive line that would start for ANY other team in the NFL: Brian Waters.

Herm was left with a perennial #32 ranked defense and an aging offense that saw TWO HOF lineman retire in two consecutive years.

Herm has begun to stock the roster with talented *football players*, most of which have been solid. With ten picks in the 2008 draft and plenty of serviceable players available via free-agency, this team should compete for a playoff spot in 2008.

Herm should be given at least three years to overhaul the roster.

Then, it's on him to produce. If he doesn't, fire him.

The problem I have is that Herm and CP should have started the rebuilding last off season instead of starting in Week 11. We just wasted a year for nothing IMO.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

The problem I have is that Herm and CP should have started the rebuilding last off season instead of starting in Week 11. We just wasted a year for nothing IMO.

The "rebuild" did begin this offseason. They brought in a ton of rookie free agents (Patterson, Brackenridge, Sippio, etc.) and have been playing many young players from day one (Tank, Turk, Bowe, etc.). The draft choices have been solid (if not spectacular: Bowe & Smith, especially). Croyle will be a solid NFL QB for years.

The Chiefs simply COULD NOT overhaul the entire team in one off-season. It's simply not possible. And there's no way this team should have started Croyle from day one because of the very offensive offensive line.

Carl was smart not to call it a rebuild. Since he has, attendance has been down and people are calling for his and Herm's head on a daily basis.

CP knows his fan-base all too well. Hence 19 years of mediocrity. Overall, Chiefs fans can't stomach a rebuild.

But it's too late. It has begun.

dallaschiefsfan · 12-17-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

I don't think Herm is taking us anywhere, but he deserves the chance to build his own team. I guess what I'm trying to say is, give him as much rope to hang himself with as possible. If we're this bad in 2009, pull the plug.

Herm "deserves" nothing. He serves at the pleasure of CP...and CP serves at the pleasure of Clark. If Clark pulls the plug on CP, he owes Herm ZERO.

smittysbar · 12-17-2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The "rebuild" did begin this offseason. They brought in a ton of rookie free agents (Patterson, Brackenridge, Sippio, etc.) and have been playing many young players from day one (Tank, Turk, Bowe, etc.). The draft choices have been solid (if not spectacular: Bowe & Smith, especially). Croyle will be a solid NFL QB for years.

The Chiefs simply COULD NOT overhaul the entire team in one off-season. It's simply not possible. And there's no way this team should have started Croyle from day one because of the very offensive offensive line.

Carl was smart not to call it a rebuild. Since he has, attendance has been down and people are calling for his and Herm's head on a daily basis.

CP knows his fan-base all too well. Hence 19 years of mediocrity. Overall, Chiefs fans can't stomach a rebuild.

But it's too late. It has begun.

Rebuilding would have had Croyle starting this year. We have basically wasted this year. Patterson, Brackenridge, are okay but i don't think the team is thinking these guys will be starters. Sippio, well he got a shot because of an injury, but no he is not going to be a starter. Turk and Tank have not gotten to play much at all, until this week, probably because of injury to Boone. And neither have stepped up yet, I think they have even been inactive a few games. The offensive line was better at the beginning of the year, than it was two weeks ago when D mac was out, and Terry was lost in space. Attendance is down for several reasons, mostly because people are fed up.

KC fans can handle a rebuild, but it should have started at the beginning of the year and not week 11. And the fact that Herm has thrown every one from the old coaches to the team to the fans under the bus has escalated everything also.

Let's just all face the obvious, Herm is a JOKE!!!!!

Zouk · 12-17-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

I don't think Herm is taking us anywhere, but he deserves the chance to build his own team. I guess what I'm trying to say is, give him as much rope to hang himself with as possible. If we're this bad in 2009, pull the plug.

Let the record note that you're willing to give Herm more time than even I - the uber-Herm defender - is willing to give him. If we're this bad in 2008, he will and should be fired.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittysbar

Rebuilding would have had Croyle starting this year. We have basically wasted this year. Patterson, Brackenridge, are okay but i don't think the team is thinking these guys will be starters. Sippio, well he got a shot because of an injury, but no he is not going to be a starter. Turk and Tank have not gotten to play much at all, until this week, probably because of injury to Boone. And neither have stepped up yet, I think they have even been inactive a few games. The offensive line was better at the beginning of the year, than it was two weeks ago when D mac was out, and Terry was lost in space. Attendance is down for several reasons, mostly because people are fed up.

KC fans can handle a rebuild, but it should have started at the beginning of the year and not week 11. And the fact that Herm has thrown every one from the old coaches to the team to the fans under the bus has escalated everything also.

Brodie Croyle wasn't ready to start the season. Plain and simple. And even if he had, he'd most certainly be out for the season by now due to injury. This offensive line is awful. Even if they DID look better at the beginning of the season (and that's debatable), that's due to the age of the lineman. They're old. They're worn out.

Expecting second and third round DT rookies to be ready for the rigors of a 16 game season is ludicrous. And apparently you haven't been watching much because Tank's played in 13 games and Turk has played in 14 games.

Halfcan · 12-17-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

He's just frankly the wrong guy, his idea of wanting to draft, get young and build the team is right in theory but his idea of how to do it and how to play is wrong.

He can't draft talent either. Whiffing on a 2nd and third for the Tank N Turk Combo-will kill us for years.

jettio · 12-17-2007, 05:44 PM

The Chiefs ought to hire some real kick-*ss GM and Head Coach whose names carry so much weight that the 31 other teams will just give up and let the Chiefs win the Super Bowl.

Wouldn't that be Neat-O!!!!!

**cdcox** · 12-17-2007, 05:53 PM

In my opinion, Herm was never the guy. I disagree with his base philosophy. It is not a matter of if we replace him but when.

I can think of two reasons to keep Herm on board for 1 more year.

1. If we fire him after two years, some good coaching candidates might get the idea that we don't have the patience to build. Giving Herm 3 years sends a message to the candidates that they will get 3 years. The perception of good support from the franchise is key to attractng the best candidates.

2. Another year of roster flushing and drafting will give the new guy a better base on which to build. Replacing the old guys (4OL, Kennison, Donnie Edwards, Surtain, and Law) is going to take some time. Let part of that replacement cycle happen under the lame duck, so that the new guy has a better chance of having a contender after 3 years.

On the other hand, there are several good reasons to make the change now.

1. He might Martyball himself to an 8-8 record or better next year by some miracle. I'd still want to replace him even if he made the playoffs. However, if he showed strong improvement it would be more difficult from a PR standpoint to replace him. Now you could easily justify it.

2. It would be better to have the new man's input in the draft and FA this season, so that person can get their style of players.

3. If Croyle is the QBOTF, it would be far, far better for him to develop under the new offensive-minded regime.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

He can't draft talent either. Whiffing on a 2nd and third for the Tank N Turk Combo-will kill us for years.

Whiffing? So you've determined after 14 games that neither of these guys will be solid NFL defensive lineman? Seriously?

WHIFFING is Eddie Freeman, Eric Downing, Junior Siavii and Ryan Sims. Guys who have NO place on an NFL roster.

Tank and Turk gained valuable playing time and learning experience. Claiming that they're "busts" after 14 games is tenuous at best.

12-17-2007, 11:14 AM
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Explain to me why we need to give Herm more time After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this. Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures: Tom Bettis - 1977 Frank Gansz - 1987-1988 Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000 Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977 John Mackovic - 1983-1986 Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past. Dave
Posts: 40,584

12-17-2007, 04:04 PM	#62
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Herm needs additional time to come up with some more crazy-ass sh*t to say, Mr. Dave Lane. Personally, I look forward to him throwing everybody on the team beneath the bus this off-season. "Get under it!!". FAX
Posts: 44,492

12-17-2007, 04:07 PM	#64
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $810478	I'm on the fence on this issue. What coach would have had this collection of inept talent further along at this point? We know Carl has meddled with the situation and delayed a true "rebuild," which is what Herm wanted from the start. I don't think Herm is taking us anywhere, but he deserves the chance to build his own team. I guess what I'm trying to say is, give him as much rope to hang himself with as possible. If we're this bad in 2009, pull the plug. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,429

12-17-2007, 04:09 PM	#65
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $-1431081	Fire Clark Hunt!! It's the only way!! __________________
Posts: 48,869

12-17-2007, 05:44 PM	#73
jettio MVP Join Date: Sep 2002 Casino cash: $4504930	The Chiefs ought to hire some real kick-*ss GM and Head Coach whose names carry so much weight that the 31 other teams will just give up and let the Chiefs win the Super Bowl. Wouldn't that be Neat-O!!!!! __________________ Where Ignorance is Bliss, 'Tis Folly to be Wise. __
Posts: 11,043

12-17-2007, 05:53 PM	#74
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $-578231	In my opinion, Herm was never the guy. I disagree with his base philosophy. It is not a matter of if we replace him but when. I can think of two reasons to keep Herm on board for 1 more year. 1. If we fire him after two years, some good coaching candidates might get the idea that we don't have the patience to build. Giving Herm 3 years sends a message to the candidates that they will get 3 years. The perception of good support from the franchise is key to attractng the best candidates. 2. Another year of roster flushing and drafting will give the new guy a better base on which to build. Replacing the old guys (4OL, Kennison, Donnie Edwards, Surtain, and Law) is going to take some time. Let part of that replacement cycle happen under the lame duck, so that the new guy has a better chance of having a contender after 3 years. On the other hand, there are several good reasons to make the change now. 1. He might Martyball himself to an 8-8 record or better next year by some miracle. I'd still want to replace him even if he made the playoffs. However, if he showed strong improvement it would be more difficult from a PR standpoint to replace him. Now you could easily justify it. 2. It would be better to have the new man's input in the draft and FA this season, so that person can get their style of players. 3. If Croyle is the QBOTF, it would be far, far better for him to develop under the new offensive-minded regime.
Posts: 46,032