What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one? - Page 5

Amnorix · 03-19-2008, 08:00 AM

I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system.

This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses.

The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway.

The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history.

I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult.

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.

**the Talking Can** · 03-19-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

I wasn't talking about the Shanny teams. Are you familiar with the teams Elway carried to the SB pre-Shanny?

sure....and your point that Montana would only be a great QB in San Fran remains stupid....

Mile High Mania · 03-19-2008, 10:37 PM

The deal is this... as originally stated, guys like Elway and Favre are rare and you should cherish them while they're playing.

Chiefs_5627 · 03-19-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?

That could be spun around and asked back, could Elway have taken Joes teams to the big one?

**Tribal Warfare** · 03-19-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_5627

That could be spun around and asked back, could Elway have taken Joes teams to the big one?

uuuh, yeah

Mile High Mania · 03-19-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_5627

That could be spun around and asked back, could Elway have taken Joes teams to the big one?

I don't why he couldn't... those teams were more talented at WR/TE/RB/DEF.

Chiefs_5627 · 03-19-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

uuuh, yeah

Uuuuh no. All 4(?), John couldve stepped right in and hit all those precision passes? Doubt that, Joe probably couldnt have done what Elway did with his teams. They each did it their own way.

Mile High Mania · 03-19-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_5627

Uuuuh no. All 4(?), John couldve stepped right in and hit all those precision passes? Doubt that, Joe probably couldnt have done what Elway did with his teams. They each did it their own way.

Hmmm... John was a gun slinger, but that doesn't mean he wasn't precise.

Chiefs_5627 · 03-19-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Hmmm... John was a gun slinger, but that doesn't mean he wasn't precise.

You'd put him in the same category as Joe in that regard?

Mile High Mania · 03-19-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_5627

You'd put him in the same category as Joe in that regard?

They were both great... if I were building a team, I'd take John over Joe for all the other things Elway brought to the game.

Chiefs_5627 · 03-19-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

They were both great... if I were building a team, I'd take John over Joe for all the other things Elway brought to the game.

Agreed they were both something special i just cant commit to say "he couldve done this with that team" or whatever because 1. debates could go on forever

2. nobody really knows until they saw it happen. Maybe Joe wouldnt have been able to be the gunslinger John was with the Donks and maybe John couldnt have handled to finesse nature of that offense and turned into a turn over machine. Ya never know. My 2.

Mile High Mania · 03-19-2008, 11:07 PM

Seriously... Montana took over a KC team that had 20 wins the previous 2 seasons and won exactly 20 in his 2 seasons. Hell, Bono followed Joe and had 22 wins in 2 seasons.

Steve Bono > Joe Montana

(sarcasm) :-)

Chiefs_5627 · 03-19-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Seriously... Montana took over a KC team that had 20 wins the previous 2 seasons and won exactly 20 in his 2 seasons. Hell, Bono followed Joe and had 22 wins in 2 seasons.

Steve Bono > Joe Montana

(sarcasm) :-)

Both were a combine 147 y/o when they played for KC.

Mile High Mania · 03-19-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_5627

Agreed they were both something special i just cant commit to say "he couldve done this with that team" or whatever because 1. debates could go on forever

2. nobody really knows until they saw it happen. Maybe Joe wouldnt have been able to be the gunslinger John was with the Donks and maybe John couldnt have handled to finesse nature of that offense and turned into a turn over machine. Ya never know. My 2.

True. But, we did see what Joe did when he took over KC with what I think is fair to say... less talent than what he had in SF. Granted, he was older. Then, Shanahan changed the dynamics around Elway and they won a ton of games and 2 titles.

It's splitting hairs... there are QBs you debate (Aikman, Bradshaw, Namath, etc) and you can really have fun. Others, like Elway and Montana... well, you should just agree they're 2 of the best ever and few others can be mentioned in the same breath.

Mile High Mania · 03-19-2008, 11:14 PM

Oh and look at that... surpassed the 20k posts mark.

(and it was a post about Elway, how fitting)

Chiefs_5627 · 03-19-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

True. But, we did see what Joe did when he took over KC with what I think is fair to say... less talent than what he had in SF. Granted, he was older. Then, Shanahan changed the dynamics around Elway and they won a ton of games and 2 titles.

It's splitting hairs... there are QBs you debate (Aikman, Bradshaw, Namath, etc) and you can really have fun. Others, like Elway and Montana... well, you should just agree they're 2 of the best ever and few others can be mentioned in the same breath.

Joe did lead us to the Champ game his first year after getting his elbow put back together but i get what your saying. Your last sentence says it all, i wouldnt bet against either.

03-19-2008, 08:00 AM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one? I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system. This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses. The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway. The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history. I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult. I don't get it. Am I missing something? I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.
Posts: 43,125

03-19-2008, 10:37 PM	#62
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $907229	The deal is this... as originally stated, guys like Elway and Favre are rare and you should cherish them while they're playing. __________________
Posts: 30,910

03-19-2008, 11:07 PM	#71
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $907229	Seriously... Montana took over a KC team that had 20 wins the previous 2 seasons and won exactly 20 in his 2 seasons. Hell, Bono followed Joe and had 22 wins in 2 seasons. Steve Bono > Joe Montana (sarcasm) :-) __________________
Posts: 30,910

03-19-2008, 11:14 PM	#74
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $907229	Oh and look at that... surpassed the 20k posts mark. (and it was a post about Elway, how fitting) __________________
Posts: 30,910