Chiefs Chiefs sticking with spread offense? - Page 5

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 08:55 AM

I am sick of talking about Hali and DJ fitting into the 3-4 and whether the Chiefs are going to draft an ILB, a RT or an injured WR.... so, why not bring up something that will make Mecca's head explode.

First, I am not saying the Chiefs will use the spread offense as extensively as they did last year.

However, if you watched the Cards under Haley last year, they used a ton of the spread.

And, if you watched the Pats, Cassel played his best from the shotgun in the spread offense.

For those of you who don't think the spread has much of a future in the NFL... much of what the Pats have run over the last two years has been based on the spread.

In fact, after further examination, I think Cassel and Thigpen's playing style is more similar than it is different. Cassel is clearly more polished and tended to make quicker better reads, and of course is two inches taller.

But, he was more comfortable in the shotgun, similar to Thigpen. He is also a scrambler, similar to Thigpen. And, he was the most comfortable using the spread formation, simialr to Thigpen.

Could the Chiefs have picked him up BECAUSE he will make a good spread QB?

Gailey and Haley are very similar in that they will not force the issue, they will do what their players do best. I think the spread will be a large part of the offensive package utilized in KC.

What I don't know is why the 'spread' has such a negative conotation. Teams have used versions of this in the NFL for a long time.

I have even come up with a name for the offense that I think we will see this year, the 'West Coast Spread'. I believe they will combine many of the pilosophies of the west coast sytem: Larger receivers, shorter passes, slants, etc. I think they will be a primarily zone running team. And, finally, I think that Cassel will see a larger part of the time in the shotgun spread formation.

Now, that I have laid out what I think will happen..... based on nothing more than what I think the talent on the team will be good at as well as what the coaches have done in the past.... you guys can flame me.

Yes... this is a stab in the dark. No, I am not an insider. But, frankly, I would rather get flamed on something new and interesting than continue to argue whether Hali can be an OLB or whether positional value should outweigh actual player evaluation.

CoMoChief · 03-10-2009, 10:22 AM

TIM TEBOW IS GOING TO CHANGE THE NFL Muuuhhahahahahahaa

- John Gruden

CoMoChief · 03-10-2009, 10:23 AM

All I know is that we better score 40 pts a game with the defense we have.

keg in kc · 03-10-2009, 10:24 AM

I'm sure they will use the spread. Probably a lot. I don't think it will be anything like the high school gimmick they ran last year, though. Unless Cassel gets hurt and they end up scrapping everything so they can simplify the scheme for the third stringer again.

Chiefnj2 · 03-10-2009, 10:25 AM

Footballoutsiders.com

All About the System

Between new GM Scott Pioli and new head coach Todd Haley, I'd say that Cassel is actually in the perfect environment to make a real go of it. In his time working with Bill Belichick in New England, Pioli got a front-row view of Cassel's strengths and weaknesses. And when he helped the Cardinals to the Super Bowl last year as Arizona's offensive coordinator, Haley ran an extremely productive attack with a lot of shotgun sets. This is where Cassel will thrive.

In 2008, Arizona quarterback Kurt Warner threw 598 regular-season passes. 412 of them were in a shotgun formation. That's 69.8 percent of his attempts, which would have been high for just about any other quarterback -- except for Cassel. Of Cassel's 516 attempts in 2008, 405 came from the shotgun -- an astonishing 78 percent. Both the Cardinals and Patriots are used to shotgun, three-wide sets with three receivers, and Kansas City's use of the Pistol formation, with quarterback Tyler Thigpen last season, gave tight end Tony Gonzalez unprecedented opportunities that he could very well see again.

There are times when players go from system to system and lose whatever it was that made them great. Matt Cassel is fortunate in that he's going to a system that perfectly fits what he's done before. He would have been a question mark in a power offense, but Kansas City will take to the air, and they have the right quarterback for the job.

kcbubb · 03-10-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Oh so it had nothing to do with Thigpens mobility and that he sucks from under center.

i'm sure that had something to do with it too. but most NFL QBs don't get hit as much as ours did in the pro offense that we ran. Cassel's jersey was much cleaner in NE than Croyles, Huards or Thigpens. An

I know Thigpen took some hits in the spread, but getting some of those lame duck hits behind center when you can't defend yourself seem much more prone to cause injury.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

what OL free agents do you think that we are targeting??? I'm not saying that it can't happen. I just haven't seen any reason to believe that the Chiefs are going to sign any free agent lineman that we can believe are really going to make a difference.

If they don't sign some OL in free agency, how can we think that the offensive line play will improve???

Or it could be because teams don't let good Olinemen get away.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Cassel's jersey was much cleaner in NE than Croyles, Huards or Thigpens.

Wasn't Cassel sacked more than any other QB?

**dirk digler** · 03-10-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Footballoutsiders.com

All About the System

Between new GM Scott Pioli and new head coach Todd Haley, I'd say that Cassel is actually in the perfect environment to make a real go of it. In his time working with Bill Belichick in New England, Pioli got a front-row view of Cassel's strengths and weaknesses. And when he helped the Cardinals to the Super Bowl last year as Arizona's offensive coordinator, Haley ran an extremely productive attack with a lot of shotgun sets. This is where Cassel will thrive.

In 2008, Arizona quarterback Kurt Warner threw 598 regular-season passes. 412 of them were in a shotgun formation. That's 69.8 percent of his attempts, which would have been high for just about any other quarterback -- except for Cassel. Of Cassel's 516 attempts in 2008, 405 came from the shotgun -- an astonishing 78 percent. Both the Cardinals and Patriots are used to shotgun, three-wide sets with three receivers, and Kansas City's use of the Pistol formation, with quarterback Tyler Thigpen last season, gave tight end Tony Gonzalez unprecedented opportunities that he could very well see again.

There are times when players go from system to system and lose whatever it was that made them great. Matt Cassel is fortunate in that he's going to a system that perfectly fits what he's done before. He would have been a question mark in a power offense, but Kansas City will take to the air, and they have the right quarterback for the job.

Sounds good to me. My only concern is when the weather turns shitty we need to be able to run the ball effectively.

keg in kc · 03-10-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Wasn't Cassel sacked more than any other QB?

Yep. 47 to Roethlisberger's 46.

Fortunately he was sacked a less the second half of the season than he was the first half (19-28)

Hell, we got two sacks on that Patriots O-line.

keg in kc · 03-10-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Sounds good to me. My only concern is when the weather turns shitty we need to be able to run the ball effectively.

You also need to be able to run the ball with a lead to burn clock. This is a familiar discussion in a lot of ways; same concerns we had with Al Saunders' system.

**dirk digler** · 03-10-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You also need to be able to run the ball with a lead to burn clock. This is a familiar discussion in a lot of ways; same concerns we had with Al Saunders' system.

When DV\AS were here we ran the ball alot and was successful at it. In Arizona they could hardly ever run successfully until they got to the playoffs. I guess that is the best time to get good at it.

Chiefnj2 · 03-10-2009, 10:45 AM

If KC is going to use the shotgun for the majority of passes like AZ and NE did last year then they should give Leftwich a call and add him as the backup QB.

**SAUTO** · 03-10-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

If KC is going to use the shotgun for the majority of passes like AZ and NE did last year then they should give Leftwich a call and add him as the backup QB.

WHY? IMO thigpen will fill that role nicely

BigChiefFan · 03-10-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

You also need to be able to run the ball with a lead to burn clock. This is a familiar discussion in a lot of ways; same concerns we had with Al Saunders' system.

The HB Draw worked on occassion in that system.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 03-10-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Well, this sucks.... you guys took this WAY better than I expected. I was thinking I was going to get flamed big time. LOL.

I was expecting far more ingorant responses than I have gotten.

So you admit to starting shit-storm threads? You do you know.

So here's my response, and it's one I know you were hoping for:

"Oh golly! I sure hope they do, because it would validate both the spread AND me, Nonsensical Chiefs Fan, and I would be right, right, RIGHT"!

(For once).

03-10-2009, 08:55 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	Chiefs sticking with spread offense? I am sick of talking about Hali and DJ fitting into the 3-4 and whether the Chiefs are going to draft an ILB, a RT or an injured WR.... so, why not bring up something that will make Mecca's head explode. First, I am not saying the Chiefs will use the spread offense as extensively as they did last year. However, if you watched the Cards under Haley last year, they used a ton of the spread. And, if you watched the Pats, Cassel played his best from the shotgun in the spread offense. For those of you who don't think the spread has much of a future in the NFL... much of what the Pats have run over the last two years has been based on the spread. In fact, after further examination, I think Cassel and Thigpen's playing style is more similar than it is different. Cassel is clearly more polished and tended to make quicker better reads, and of course is two inches taller. But, he was more comfortable in the shotgun, similar to Thigpen. He is also a scrambler, similar to Thigpen. And, he was the most comfortable using the spread formation, simialr to Thigpen. Could the Chiefs have picked him up BECAUSE he will make a good spread QB? Gailey and Haley are very similar in that they will not force the issue, they will do what their players do best. I think the spread will be a large part of the offensive package utilized in KC. What I don't know is why the 'spread' has such a negative conotation. Teams have used versions of this in the NFL for a long time. I have even come up with a name for the offense that I think we will see this year, the 'West Coast Spread'. I believe they will combine many of the pilosophies of the west coast sytem: Larger receivers, shorter passes, slants, etc. I think they will be a primarily zone running team. And, finally, I think that Cassel will see a larger part of the time in the shotgun spread formation. Now, that I have laid out what I think will happen..... based on nothing more than what I think the talent on the team will be good at as well as what the coaches have done in the past.... you guys can flame me. Yes... this is a stab in the dark. No, I am not an insider. But, frankly, I would rather get flamed on something new and interesting than continue to argue whether Hali can be an OLB or whether positional value should outweigh actual player evaluation.
Posts: 5,540

03-10-2009, 10:22 AM	#61
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7672254	TIM TEBOW IS GOING TO CHANGE THE NFL Muuuhhahahahahahaa - John Gruden
Posts: 39,245

03-10-2009, 10:23 AM	#62
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7672254	All I know is that we better score 40 pts a game with the defense we have.
Posts: 39,245

03-10-2009, 10:24 AM	#63
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I'm sure they will use the spread. Probably a lot. I don't think it will be anything like the high school gimmick they ran last year, though. Unless Cassel gets hurt and they end up scrapping everything so they can simplify the scheme for the third stringer again.
Posts: 58,682

03-10-2009, 10:25 AM	#64
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	Footballoutsiders.com All About the System Between new GM Scott Pioli and new head coach Todd Haley, I'd say that Cassel is actually in the perfect environment to make a real go of it. In his time working with Bill Belichick in New England, Pioli got a front-row view of Cassel's strengths and weaknesses. And when he helped the Cardinals to the Super Bowl last year as Arizona's offensive coordinator, Haley ran an extremely productive attack with a lot of shotgun sets. This is where Cassel will thrive. In 2008, Arizona quarterback Kurt Warner threw 598 regular-season passes. 412 of them were in a shotgun formation. That's 69.8 percent of his attempts, which would have been high for just about any other quarterback -- except for Cassel. Of Cassel's 516 attempts in 2008, 405 came from the shotgun -- an astonishing 78 percent. Both the Cardinals and Patriots are used to shotgun, three-wide sets with three receivers, and Kansas City's use of the Pistol formation, with quarterback Tyler Thigpen last season, gave tight end Tony Gonzalez unprecedented opportunities that he could very well see again. There are times when players go from system to system and lose whatever it was that made them great. Matt Cassel is fortunate in that he's going to a system that perfectly fits what he's done before. He would have been a question mark in a power offense, but Kansas City will take to the air, and they have the right quarterback for the job. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541

03-10-2009, 10:45 AM	#72
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	If KC is going to use the shotgun for the majority of passes like AZ and NE did last year then they should give Leftwich a call and add him as the backup QB. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541