Chiefs Teicher: Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade - Page 5

**Tribal Warfare** · 01-04-2010, 11:49 PM

Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

To Brian Waters, the numbers speak with clarity. During the season’s final few games, the Chiefs became one of the league’s most explosive running teams while significantly reducing the number of times quarterback Matt Cassel was sacked.

There can be no better endorsement of the Chiefs’ much-maligned offensive line.

“They say stuff rolls downhill, and we’re at the bottom,” Waters said Monday as the Chiefs, who finished their 4-12 season with a 44-24 win over the Broncos on Sunday in Denver, cleared out their lockers and scattered for winter. “We take that burden because we’re big boys.

“But the last two years, I don’t think that some of my offensive linemates have been judged properly. I feel a lot of eyes that have been judging some of my teammates are unqualified eyes. There are a lot of people basing their opinions off what they know, and a lot of people don’t know football.

“In our position, everything is all about what other guys do. Everything is about how many times the quarterback got hit or it’s all about how many rushing yards we had. We’re pretty much (tied) to the numbers.”

His comments suggest that given Kansas City’s recent offensive improvements, Waters, a four-time Pro Bowl guard, believes the Chiefs don’t need to make upgrading their offensive line an offseason priority.

During the season’s final eight games, running back Jamaal Charles trailed only Tennessee’s Chris Johnson in rushing yards with 968. Charles averaged 6 yards per carry in that time.

Chiefs quarterbacks were sacked 37 times in the first 10 games, but Cassel went down only eight times in the final six. In Denver, he wasn’t sacked for the first time all season.

Some of the improvement has to do with changes on the line. On the right side, Ryan O’Callaghan replaced Ikechuku Ndukwe at tackle and Wade Smith replaced Mike Goff at guard.

The line also had time to adjust after the Chiefs abruptly changed their offense during the preseason when they fired coordinator Chan Gailey.

“That affected us greatly,” Waters said. “We’d be lying to ourselves to not think that the change in offense two weeks before the regular season started didn’t harm what we had already kind of got going. But that’s the head coach’s prerogative to make that type of change.”

The biggest reason for the line’s improved play was Charles, who is smaller and quicker than Johnson and doesn’t need as much space to be an effective runner.

“What we were trying to do offensively wasn’t to the strength of Larry,” Waters said. “We were trying to be a little more open-space, a little bit more no-huddle, a little bit more fast-hitting type of offense. We know Larry, and when he was in his greatest time, he was more of a pounder.

“We finally got comfortable in what we were trying to do. The idea of what we were trying to do from game to game has changed through the course of the year and we finally settled on who we are and we weren’t going to change that.

“Talentwise, I don’t think I’ve ever played with anybody as talented as (Charles) is, with the explosive ability he has. He has the ability to make a 5-yard run a 50-yard run just like that.

“He has the ability to make us look better.”

Monday’s interview ended Waters’ seasonlong silence. Waters asked to be traded last winter shortly after Todd Haley was hired as the Chiefs’ head coach.

Waters said his silence shouldn’t be interpreted that he was unhappy playing for the Chiefs.

“With the stuff I came back here with during the offseason, I just wanted to kind of stand out of the way and just do my job and allow this whole situation to show itself,” Waters said. “I didn’t want to get in the way. I know people are always trying to make it seem like you feel this way or you feel that way. I just wanted people to see this whole program for themselves. I didn’t want to be a distraction.

“It was just a good year for me to focus on my own job.”

Waters started 15 games this season, missing last month’s Cleveland game because of a sore hamstring. That ended a streak of 51 consecutive starts.

He also missed out on the Pro Bowl after playing in Hawaii the previous year,

“I think I had a solid year,” Waters said. “I don’t think I performed any worse than I’ve performed over the last few years.

“I feel I have plenty left in the tank.”

Saccopoo · 01-05-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The Chiefs have a lot of areas that need upgrading. The question is simply where OL falls on the priority list for Pioli, and what's available to fix problems. The team is desperate for a NT, for example, but that would probably change in a heartbeat if the Patriots were stupid enough to let Wilfork go, because I'd imagine that the Chiefs would back the Brinks truck up for Vince.

I mentioned it in my mock on the Draft Planet section, but ideally, I'd love to see the Chiefs pick up Wilfork as a free agent (though not overpay him a la Haynesworth (what a complete pile of steaming monkey shit by the way)), trade Dorsey for a second and third (if that is possible at this point) to a 4-3 team, use our high second round pick on a guy like Jared Odrick of Penn State, then with the other two second rounders pick up Daryll Washington of TCU at ILB and Von Miller of Texas Tech. Then you could use the third rounders on guys like Beadles (who I think is the best O lineman in this draft regardless), Johnson (best guard in this draft IMO), Tennant, Petrus, and the like.

Wishful thinking...

Mr. Laz · 01-05-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

. (And I'd suggest that losing Weigmann in Herm's Youth Movement plan was a bigger loss than anyone might have realized. Most underrated lineman of the past decade IMO.) .

wiegmann didn't fit the system, the real mistake is that we didn't draft anyone worth a crap to replace.

Losing any player feels like a huge loss if you don't do anything to replace them.

Just Passin' By · 01-05-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I mentioned it in my mock on the Draft Planet section, but ideally, I'd love to see the Chiefs pick up Wilfork as a free agent (though not overpay him a la Haynesworth (what a complete pile of steaming monkey shit by the way)), trade Dorsey for a second and third (if that is possible at this point) to a 4-3 team, use our high second round pick on a guy like Jared Odrick of Penn State, then with the other two second rounders pick up Daryll Washington of TCU at ILB and Von Miller of Texas Tech. Then you could use the third rounders on guys like Beadles (who I think is the best O lineman in this draft regardless), Johnson (best guard in this draft IMO), Tennant, Petrus, and the like.

Wishful thinking...

Another possibility, although I haven't heard anything yet, is that Pittsburgh could decide to move on at the NT position. That's probably a long shot, too, but Hampton wasn't given an extension and this was his contract year. Of course, Denver will probably get into the bidding if any top end NT springs loose this year, so that will have an impact on price, if nothing else.

Chief Faithful · 01-05-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Being a light center isn't necessarily a bad thing - it hasn't hurt Casey Weigmann one bit. (And I'd suggest that losing Weigmann in Herm's Youth Movement plan was a bigger loss than anyone might have realized. Most underrated lineman of the past decade IMO.) Tennant is light years beyond Niswanger at the same stage and is as good at his position as anyone whose come out in recent memory. Sure, Alex Mack was ideal because of his size, but Tennant is a superb center who can get out and pull, a la Weigmann, is smart and tenacious. The John Estes kid of Hawaii is the same way, but because no one ever sees Hawaii play, no one is mentioning him. Athletic, smart, mobile and basically born to play the position. And if O'Dowd and Wisniewski declare for the draft, they are both high first day choices at the C position.

I believe Tennant has more upside than Niswanger, but my point is they have the same profile. Tennant, like Niswanger, plays tall and has trouble with bull-rushing DT's. The biggest problem on the line is Niswanger inability to stop the bull-rush and Tennant would not be immediate improvement. There are too many needs to draft a center in round 2 (that is where I believe he will go) that needs to develop. But, I would be happy with him in the third round or later.

John Estes would be a good pick in later rounds, but I think Wade Smith could make a more immediate impact at Center and this appears to be a good draft for guards.

**Iowanian** · 01-05-2010, 02:10 PM

I guess its just my uninformed eyes that could tell when Waters was going to pull vs Denver because he cheated back a step, at least once further into the backfield than the OTs.

I guess its just my uninformed eyes that has watched the oline, including Waters whiffing blocks and assignments including some basic protection principles (block inside to out) etc.

I guess its my uninformed eyes that have noticed Waters committing more penalties this past season, and Niswanger being thrown into the backfield play after play. Maybe it was uninformed eyes that screamed 2/3 season that Mike Goff was horrible, the RTs not named O'Callahan looked like they had on concrete shoes.

Did they improve the last 3-4 games...yeah. Did they suck compared to a GOOD NFL Offensive line. Yes, they were offensive to watch.

Mr. Laz · 01-05-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

I guess its just my uninformed eyes that could tell when Waters was going to pull vs Denver because he cheated back a step, at least once further into the backfield than the OTs.

I guess its just my uninformed eyes that has watched the oline, including Waters whiffing blocks and assignments including some basic protection principles (block inside to out) etc.

I guess its my uninformed eyes that have noticed Waters committing more penalties this past season, and Niswanger being thrown into the backfield play after play. Maybe it was uninformed eyes that screamed 2/3 season that Mike Goff was horrible, the RTs not named O'Callahan looked like they had on concrete shoes.

Did they improve the last 3-4 games...yeah. Did they suck compared to a GOOD NFL Offensive line. Yes, they were offensive to watch.

yep ... Waters has lost a step

maybe waters was so pissed off about the coaching stuff that he didn't get into the same shape he normally does or maybe he's just old but he can't really be a impartial judge right now.

Jethopper · 01-05-2010, 02:37 PM

The only reason he is saying this is because he knows that is exactly what needs to happen.

CoMoChief · 01-05-2010, 02:45 PM

I understand that Waters isnt going to come out and say "Yeah my unit sucks, we need to be replaced"

But come on.......

I hope he really doesn't think this.....if he thinks no Oline help/upgrades are needed, then I really want to know what positions exactly Waters DOES think needs some upgrading?!?!? Good lord. The Oline was the one of the worst parts of this entire season up til the last 2-3 games. Mankins, Iupati, Fox, Chris Scott (TENN) ALL COME ON DOWN!!!!!

Titty Meat · 01-05-2010, 02:46 PM

This is what Eddie Kennison said the year before he got released. Hmmmm.

CoMoChief · 01-05-2010, 02:48 PM

Branden Albert
Logan Mankins
Brian Waters
Mike Iupati
Jason Fox
Chris Scott
Wade Smith
Barry Richardson

This should be our Oline depth next season

Micjones · 01-05-2010, 02:54 PM

I think we could get by with just a couple Offensive Line additions.

Chiefnj2 · 01-05-2010, 02:57 PM

Waters is always professional. Haley could learn a lot from the guy.

**HemiEd** · 01-05-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Waters is always professional. Haley could learn a lot from the guy.

You mean like when he showed up at Arrowhead, un-invited during the off season, right after a new coach and GM took over, wanting to get things ironed out?

Chiefnj2 · 01-05-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

You mean like when he showed up at Arrowhead, un-invited during the off season, right after a new coach and GM took over, wanting to get things ironed out?

Yes. Imagine that, the veteran team leader who flies in on his own time and dime to meet with the new coach and in return gets verbally slapped in the face and treated like a child. The very same head coach who would throw tantrums all season long, fire the OC a week before the season starts and struggle on offense the rest of the season.

CoMoChief · 01-05-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Yes. Imagine that, the veteran team leader who flies in on his own time and dime to meet with the new coach and in return gets verbally slapped in the face and treated like a child. The very same head coach who would throw tantrums all season long, fire the OC a week before the season starts and struggle on offense the rest of the season.

nailed it

01-04-2010, 11:49 PM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $542813	Teicher: Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star To Brian Waters, the numbers speak with clarity. During the season’s final few games, the Chiefs became one of the league’s most explosive running teams while significantly reducing the number of times quarterback Matt Cassel was sacked. There can be no better endorsement of the Chiefs’ much-maligned offensive line. “They say stuff rolls downhill, and we’re at the bottom,” Waters said Monday as the Chiefs, who finished their 4-12 season with a 44-24 win over the Broncos on Sunday in Denver, cleared out their lockers and scattered for winter. “We take that burden because we’re big boys. “But the last two years, I don’t think that some of my offensive linemates have been judged properly. I feel a lot of eyes that have been judging some of my teammates are unqualified eyes. There are a lot of people basing their opinions off what they know, and a lot of people don’t know football. “In our position, everything is all about what other guys do. Everything is about how many times the quarterback got hit or it’s all about how many rushing yards we had. We’re pretty much (tied) to the numbers.” His comments suggest that given Kansas City’s recent offensive improvements, Waters, a four-time Pro Bowl guard, believes the Chiefs don’t need to make upgrading their offensive line an offseason priority. During the season’s final eight games, running back Jamaal Charles trailed only Tennessee’s Chris Johnson in rushing yards with 968. Charles averaged 6 yards per carry in that time. Chiefs quarterbacks were sacked 37 times in the first 10 games, but Cassel went down only eight times in the final six. In Denver, he wasn’t sacked for the first time all season. Some of the improvement has to do with changes on the line. On the right side, Ryan O’Callaghan replaced Ikechuku Ndukwe at tackle and Wade Smith replaced Mike Goff at guard. The line also had time to adjust after the Chiefs abruptly changed their offense during the preseason when they fired coordinator Chan Gailey. “That affected us greatly,” Waters said. “We’d be lying to ourselves to not think that the change in offense two weeks before the regular season started didn’t harm what we had already kind of got going. But that’s the head coach’s prerogative to make that type of change.” The biggest reason for the line’s improved play was Charles, who is smaller and quicker than Johnson and doesn’t need as much space to be an effective runner. “What we were trying to do offensively wasn’t to the strength of Larry,” Waters said. “We were trying to be a little more open-space, a little bit more no-huddle, a little bit more fast-hitting type of offense. We know Larry, and when he was in his greatest time, he was more of a pounder. “We finally got comfortable in what we were trying to do. The idea of what we were trying to do from game to game has changed through the course of the year and we finally settled on who we are and we weren’t going to change that. “Talentwise, I don’t think I’ve ever played with anybody as talented as (Charles) is, with the explosive ability he has. He has the ability to make a 5-yard run a 50-yard run just like that. “He has the ability to make us look better.” Monday’s interview ended Waters’ seasonlong silence. Waters asked to be traded last winter shortly after Todd Haley was hired as the Chiefs’ head coach. Waters said his silence shouldn’t be interpreted that he was unhappy playing for the Chiefs. “With the stuff I came back here with during the offseason, I just wanted to kind of stand out of the way and just do my job and allow this whole situation to show itself,” Waters said. “I didn’t want to get in the way. I know people are always trying to make it seem like you feel this way or you feel that way. I just wanted people to see this whole program for themselves. I didn’t want to be a distraction. “It was just a good year for me to focus on my own job.” Waters started 15 games this season, missing last month’s Cleveland game because of a sore hamstring. That ended a streak of 51 consecutive starts. He also missed out on the Pro Bowl after playing in Hawaii the previous year, “I think I had a solid year,” Waters said. “I don’t think I performed any worse than I’ve performed over the last few years. “I feel I have plenty left in the tank.”
Posts: 42,166

01-05-2010, 02:10 PM	#65
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $4628454	I guess its just my uninformed eyes that could tell when Waters was going to pull vs Denver because he cheated back a step, at least once further into the backfield than the OTs. I guess its just my uninformed eyes that has watched the oline, including Waters whiffing blocks and assignments including some basic protection principles (block inside to out) etc. I guess its my uninformed eyes that have noticed Waters committing more penalties this past season, and Niswanger being thrown into the backfield play after play. Maybe it was uninformed eyes that screamed 2/3 season that Mike Goff was horrible, the RTs not named O'Callahan looked like they had on concrete shoes. Did they improve the last 3-4 games...yeah. Did they suck compared to a GOOD NFL Offensive line. Yes, they were offensive to watch.
Posts: 61,559

01-05-2010, 02:37 PM	#67
Jethopper A Great Pick Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $9776008	The only reason he is saying this is because he knows that is exactly what needs to happen.
Posts: 1,756

01-05-2010, 02:45 PM	#68
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8022254	I understand that Waters isnt going to come out and say "Yeah my unit sucks, we need to be replaced" But come on....... I hope he really doesn't think this.....if he thinks no Oline help/upgrades are needed, then I really want to know what positions exactly Waters DOES think needs some upgrading?!?!? Good lord. The Oline was the one of the worst parts of this entire season up til the last 2-3 games. Mankins, Iupati, Fox, Chris Scott (TENN) ALL COME ON DOWN!!!!!
Posts: 39,165

01-05-2010, 02:46 PM	#69
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $1907558	This is what Eddie Kennison said the year before he got released. Hmmmm.
Posts: 75,537

01-05-2010, 02:48 PM	#70
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8022254	Branden Albert Logan Mankins Brian Waters Mike Iupati Jason Fox Chris Scott Wade Smith Barry Richardson This should be our Oline depth next season
Posts: 39,165

01-05-2010, 02:54 PM	#71
Micjones Whose house? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $10005180	I think we could get by with just a couple Offensive Line additions. __________________ It's like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong.
Posts: 15,344

01-05-2010, 02:57 PM	#72
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7813688	Waters is always professional. Haley could learn a lot from the guy. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,396