Chiefs Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense. - Page 5

oaklandhater · 10-13-2015, 02:55 PM

http://www.kctv5.com/story/30240072/...-older-players

Chiefs starting to face questions about older players

Posted: Oct 12, 2015 8:31 AM PDT
Updated: Oct 12, 2015 10:47 AM PDT
Posted by Chris Oberholtz, Multimedia ProducerCONNECT

Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)
Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -
Andy Reid and John Fox have been around the NFL long enough to see hundreds of players come and go, some of them only after age has rendered their once-potent ability ineffective.

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Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense.

The Chiefs are actually among the youngest teams in the NFL, the product of several seasons spent picking early in the draft.

But they also have a pair of starting linebackers in Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali that are among the oldest in the NFL, raising the question: Has the game started to catch up to two of the best to ever wear a Chiefs uniform?

"I don't see that decline from our older players right now. I don't think that's the issue," Reid said. "I think they're playing hard and doing the things they've done before."

Reid also acknowledged that the tape — and numbers — rarely lie.

In the case of Hali, the formerly feared pass rusher has just six tackles and one sack through four games. That puts Hali on pace for the fewest stops of his 10-year career, and the fewest sacks since he had three in 2008, his third season in the league.

More importantly, the fact that the four-time Pro Bowl selection has been less effective has had a spillover effect on the rest of the defense.

Teams are more easily able to double-team Justin Houston on the other side, or help with nose tackle Dontari Poe. And if a quarterback has more time to throw, it puts additional strain on the defensive backfield.

The result is the league's 29th-ranked defense, allowing nearly 400 yards per game, and one that is tied with this week's opponent, the Chicago Bears, for most points allowed.

"We've got a good group," Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton said. "You have to be very careful not to let your emotion, the highs of winning and the lows of losing, affect you."

Yet emotion is exactly what often forces coaches to leave unproductive players on the field too long. They remember what a player has done in the past rather than take stock of what he is capable of doing in the present, their image of him clouded by sentimentality and time.

Hali, who has not been available to reporters this week, has certainly made it difficult to view him as anything other than a star. He has 80 1/2 sacks in his career, trailing only Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith for most in franchise history. He had 14 1/2 during the 2010 season, which still stands as the fifth-best mark in the Chiefs record book.

He also has proven invaluable in tutoring Houston, now one of the NFL's top pass rushers, and Dee Ford, a first-round pick who is being groomed as Hali's successor.

"One of the foundations of being successful is the loyalty you have to people," said Fox, who is in his first season leading the Bears but got plenty of questions about whether Peyton Manning was washed up during his time coaching the Denver Broncos.

"It can be a tough call," Fox said. "I've had some very tough ones along the way. We're a performance-based business and as a coach or general manager or decision-maker, those are tough calls — how they fit in your system, how capable and reliable they are through time."

Hali, who took a significant pay cut to stay in Kansas City this season, has clearly been reliable. He has rarely been hurt, often playing through the pain of nicks and bruises.

Perhaps all of those are finally catching up to him.

"You know, a lot of them have accomplished a lot for you, so it makes it difficult," Fox said of the challenges that coaches face when it comes to aging players. "It's a tough thing to do."

Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Saccopoo · 10-14-2015, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Cassel would be at worst 2-3 if he had the type of players that Smith has assuming they play the same schedule. The wild card is whether or not he didn't go fetal against the Denver game and was able to convert at least one third down.

**Easy 6** · 10-14-2015, 11:34 AM

I don't often agree with Discuss, to put it lightly... but I'm not so sure he's wrong.

For all of his many faults, Cassel did make some plays here and there when trying to push the ball downfield... hell, he was a steely eyed gunslinger compared to Smiff.

Saccopoo · 10-14-2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy 6

I don't often agree with Discuss, to put it lightly... but I'm not so sure he's wrong.

For all of his many faults, Cassel did make some plays here and there when trying to push the ball downfield... hell, he was a steely eyed gunslinger compared to Smiff.

FloridaMan88 · 10-14-2015, 11:51 AM

Alex Smith's play has sunk to new depths... he now has people clamoring for Matt Casshole.

Hammock Parties · 10-14-2015, 11:57 AM

Good god.

Saccopoo · 10-14-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop, Chiefs

Good god.

**Easy 6** · 10-14-2015, 12:02 PM

No one is "clamoring" for Cassel, but he wasn't nearly as scared to take a chance once in a while... that's for damn sure.

ChiefAshhole1056 · 10-14-2015, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop, Chiefs

Good god.

Not making excuses for this at all, it's clearly an issue, but we have gone against some pretty damn good WR's in 5 weeks.

**bevischief** · 10-14-2015, 12:29 PM

Give the whole team Viagra. Can't hurt at this point...

scho63 · 10-14-2015, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Alex Smith's play has sunk to new depths... he now has people clamoring for Matt Casshole.

saphojunkie · 10-15-2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy 6

No one is "clamoring" for Cassel, but he wasn't nearly as scared to take a chance once in a while... that's for damn sure.

Matt Cassel was the worst quarterback I have ever seen and I would sign Alex Smith to a 60 year contract before allowing Cassel to take one more snap.

**Baby Lee** · 10-15-2015, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Matt Cassel was the worst quarterback I have ever seen and I would sign Alex Smith to a 60 year contract before allowing Cassel to take one more snap.

I'm not averse to parting ways with Alex, but not if it was for the return of ANYONE we've had since 2005.

mcaj22 · 10-15-2015, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefAshhole1056

Not making excuses for this at all, it's clearly an issue, but we have gone against some pretty damn good WR's in 5 weeks.

Marquess Wilson and Cameron Meredith are NOT good WRS. And when they beat your secondary, your defensive scheme sucks.

bishop_74 · 10-15-2015, 03:10 PM

You guys are like the Whole Food Anti Vax moms. Too far removed from the pain that was Cassell. You have lost your mind if you think he is better than Smith. Smith is bad... Cassell was a vaginal wart.

ThaVirus · 10-15-2015, 04:48 PM

Cassel is AIDS, Smith is Hep C.

Still gonna kill you slowly.

10-13-2015, 02:55 PM
oaklandhater future chiefs fans Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: oakland california Casino cash: $5808993	Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense. http://www.kctv5.com/story/30240072/...-older-players Chiefs starting to face questions about older players Posted: Oct 12, 2015 8:31 AM PDT Updated: Oct 12, 2015 10:47 AM PDT Posted by Chris Oberholtz, Multimedia ProducerCONNECT Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel) Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt wears a pink ribbon as he shakes hands with head coach Andy Reid before an NFL football game against the Chicago Bears in Kansas City, Mo., Sunday, Oct. 11, 2015. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel) KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) - Andy Reid and John Fox have been around the NFL long enough to see hundreds of players come and go, some of them only after age has rendered their once-potent ability ineffective. MORE Loss of Charles a possible dagger in the Chiefs season At the start of the second half the Kansas City offense was driving down the field, poised to extend their lead to 24-3 over Chicago. Then near the goal line on a Jamaal Charles carry, the Chiefs season outlook suffered a big loss. Continue reading >> Related Links Chiefs lose Charles to potentially season-ending knee injury Reid insists that is not the problem with the Chiefs' woebegone defense. The Chiefs are actually among the youngest teams in the NFL, the product of several seasons spent picking early in the draft. But they also have a pair of starting linebackers in Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali that are among the oldest in the NFL, raising the question: Has the game started to catch up to two of the best to ever wear a Chiefs uniform? "I don't see that decline from our older players right now. I don't think that's the issue," Reid said. "I think they're playing hard and doing the things they've done before." Reid also acknowledged that the tape — and numbers — rarely lie. In the case of Hali, the formerly feared pass rusher has just six tackles and one sack through four games. That puts Hali on pace for the fewest stops of his 10-year career, and the fewest sacks since he had three in 2008, his third season in the league. More importantly, the fact that the four-time Pro Bowl selection has been less effective has had a spillover effect on the rest of the defense. Teams are more easily able to double-team Justin Houston on the other side, or help with nose tackle Dontari Poe. And if a quarterback has more time to throw, it puts additional strain on the defensive backfield. The result is the league's 29th-ranked defense, allowing nearly 400 yards per game, and one that is tied with this week's opponent, the Chicago Bears, for most points allowed. "We've got a good group," Chiefs defensive coordinator Bob Sutton said. "You have to be very careful not to let your emotion, the highs of winning and the lows of losing, affect you." Yet emotion is exactly what often forces coaches to leave unproductive players on the field too long. They remember what a player has done in the past rather than take stock of what he is capable of doing in the present, their image of him clouded by sentimentality and time. Hali, who has not been available to reporters this week, has certainly made it difficult to view him as anything other than a star. He has 80 1/2 sacks in his career, trailing only Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith for most in franchise history. He had 14 1/2 during the 2010 season, which still stands as the fifth-best mark in the Chiefs record book. He also has proven invaluable in tutoring Houston, now one of the NFL's top pass rushers, and Dee Ford, a first-round pick who is being groomed as Hali's successor. "One of the foundations of being successful is the loyalty you have to people," said Fox, who is in his first season leading the Bears but got plenty of questions about whether Peyton Manning was washed up during his time coaching the Denver Broncos. "It can be a tough call," Fox said. "I've had some very tough ones along the way. We're a performance-based business and as a coach or general manager or decision-maker, those are tough calls — how they fit in your system, how capable and reliable they are through time." Hali, who took a significant pay cut to stay in Kansas City this season, has clearly been reliable. He has rarely been hurt, often playing through the pain of nicks and bruises. Perhaps all of those are finally catching up to him. "You know, a lot of them have accomplished a lot for you, so it makes it difficult," Fox said of the challenges that coaches face when it comes to aging players. "It's a tough thing to do." Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Posts: 24,003

10-14-2015, 11:34 AM	#62
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $-182225	I don't often agree with Discuss, to put it lightly... but I'm not so sure he's wrong. For all of his many faults, Cassel did make some plays here and there when trying to push the ball downfield... hell, he was a steely eyed gunslinger compared to Smiff.
Posts: 98,497

10-14-2015, 11:51 AM	#64
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $-747094	Alex Smith's play has sunk to new depths... he now has people clamoring for Matt Casshole.
Posts: 50,254

10-14-2015, 11:57 AM	#65
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $800478	Good god. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,443

10-14-2015, 12:02 PM	#67
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $-182225	No one is "clamoring" for Cassel, but he wasn't nearly as scared to take a chance once in a while... that's for damn sure.
Posts: 98,497

10-14-2015, 12:29 PM	#69
bevischief .... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somewhere Kansas Casino cash: $7729352 VARSITY	Give the whole team Viagra. Can't hurt at this point...
Posts: 27,771

10-15-2015, 03:10 PM	#74
bishop_74 Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Denver, CO. USA Casino cash: $8654993	You guys are like the Whole Food Anti Vax moms. Too far removed from the pain that was Cassell. You have lost your mind if you think he is better than Smith. Smith is bad... Cassell was a vaginal wart.
Posts: 3,642

10-15-2015, 04:48 PM	#75
ThaVirus 5 o’clock free crack giveaway Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $-1827631	Cassel is AIDS, Smith is Hep C. Still gonna kill you slowly.
Posts: 47,040