**** BOB SUTTON

[Chris Meck]

That's it.
You got major upgrades in the front seven. The corners were not the problem today. Guys running free underneath all ****ing day. NO PASS RUSH, rushing two and three guys and Steeler receivers STILL RUNNING FREE UNDERNEATH. Everytime we blitzed, we rushed the throw. Everytime we didn't, Roethlisberger had all ****ing day. No excuse to rush two and three against a HOF QB.

You got younger, and faster. It's not all on the players. It's the scheme. It leaves the defense on the field until they're gassed and give up the big play.

If the scheme is too complicated for your secondary to run, then CHANGE THE SCHEME.

You have an offense that can score at will. Play aggressive and make them match you big play for big play. blitz, pressure, force them to make a big play or a mistake. Sitting back in loose zones all day is NOT WORKING.

**** Sutton.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I agree there's a lot of holding that wasn't being called.
I don't really know what to do about that, but I don't think you just give up rushing the passer as a strategy.

No one gave up rushing the passer.

He started mixing coverages.

There were well timed blitzes called throughout the game...

All the way to Pittsburgh's final drive...

And we won in Pittsburgh, a place where we've been getting blown out for YEARS.

Anyone remember the particular 44-10 beatdown where Polamalu picked off Huard and a frustrated LJ dragged Polamalu down by his hair?

Gunther never won in Pittsburgh, as DC or HC.

I was in Kindergarten and Bill Kenney was QB last time we won @Pitt.

So, forgive me for not grabbing my pitchfork and chasing Sutton out of town on a rail just yet...

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

So what about Pitt's defense? Is Pat THAT good, or does their defense suck?

In other words, the Steelers have a goddam good offense. Defense did just enough to win. We have to be better, but we're not gonna face the Steelers every week.

I don't know, man. I think maybe Pat IS THAT GOOD. Also, I think the Steeler's Defense is not quite what it usually is. But I think it's still an above average squad.

It's true we're not gonna face the Steelers every week, but this is also not the Steelers at their best.

I don't think we're a top flight talent defense. I also don't think we utilize the talent we DO have very well. If y'all want to take issue with that, I guess have at it.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

You've got my vote for DC.

Really?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

No one gave up rushing the passer.

He started mixing coverages.

There were well timed blitzes called throughout the game...

All the way to Pittsburgh's final drive...

And we won in Pittsburgh, a place where we've been getting blown out for YEARS.

Anyone remember the particular 44-10 beatdown where Polamalu picked off Huard and a frustrated LJ dragged Polamalu down by his hair?

Gunther never won in Pittsburgh, as DC or HC.

I was in Kindergarten and Bill Kenney was QB last time we won @Pitt.

So, forgive me for not grabbing my pitchfork and chasing Sutton out of town on a rail just yet...

In the second half, when we actually got some stops, we did in fact rush 4 and 5 guys. All I'm saying is- it sure looks a lot more like an NFL defense when we do that. I'm not sure why that's controversial. I think we've seen enough proof that rushing 3 and sometimes ****ing 2 (!) is maybe not working. Yet, We do it A LOT. So I think it's dumb. I guess that makes me an idiot that doesn't watch the games. Whatever. I was in 8th grade when we won that game in Pittsburgh, by the way.

[jimidollar]

Not a Sutton fan, but our defense hardly has any talent. Which starters would even sniff the field on another team?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I don't know, man. I think maybe Pat IS THAT GOOD. Also, I think the Steeler's Defense is not quite what it usually is. But I think it's still an above average squad.

It's true we're not gonna face the Steelers every week, but this is also not the Steelers at their best.

I don't think we're a top flight talent defense. I also don't think we utilize the talent we DO have very well. If y'all want to take issue with that, I guess have at it.

What talent? Outside of Fuller, there isn't a single starter on the back end of this defense. On any other team, Nelson would be a backup, Scandrick would be a backup. The biggest blunder on defense today was by Eric Murray and if it weren't for the Chiefs, he'd be unemployed.

Dee Ford is a bust, Justin Houston is just plain busted. KPass is a no-show, Reggie Ragland is a MLB that can't tackle.

In all seriousness, there's 3 guys on this defense that would compete for starting jobs on other teams - Hitchens, Fuller, Jones, and that's probably it.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by jimidollar

Not a Sutton fan, but our defense hardly has any talent. Which starters would even sniff the field on another team?

I'll bet the Bills would take Sutton and our entire defense over whatever they've got going on right about now...

[Iconic]

Simply do not have the talent on defense. When he sends the house they can't get home and when he rushes three they abuse the soft zones and run drags and screens. Lose/Lose situation and coupled with the lack of talent it exacerbates.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

I'll bet the Bills would take Sutton and our entire defense over whatever they've got going on right about now...

That's a horrifically low bar to set.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

What talent? Outside of Fuller, there isn't a single starter on the back end of this defense. On any other team, Nelson would be a backup, Scandrick would be a backup. The biggest blunder on defense today was by Eric Murray and if it weren't for the Chiefs, he'd be unemployed.

Dee Ford is a bust, Justin Houston is just plain busted. KPass is a no-show, Reggie Ragland is a MLB that can't tackle.

In all seriousness, there's 3 guys on this defense that would compete for starting jobs on other teams - Hitchens, Fuller, Jones, and that's probably it.

Sad, but true.

Our ends suck, LBs suck, and outside of Berry and Fuller, the DBs are flaming garbage.

Amazing Sutton has done what he's done, considering.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by jimidollar

Not a Sutton fan, but our defense hardly has any talent. Which starters would even sniff the field on another team?

well, I mean you have what, 4 new starters and 3 or 4 new rotational guys and have the same results...

So, is it that the team can't identify talent? They sure have no issues on the offensive side of the ball.

Is it that the scheme is too complicated and so guys aren't in the right place because they're confused?

Well then that's a coaching/scheme issue.

I'm totally open to other ideas, but I think it seems pretty clear. The one thing the Chiefs did scheme-wise today that was right on was bracketing AB and making the Steelers beat them elsewhere. Problem is, Mahomes threw 6 TD's and it still was ALMOST not enough. I mean, I think it's pretty clear.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

That's a horrifically low bar to set.

That's how bad the talent level is on this defense.

Jone, Fuller, and Hitchens.

And Berry when he's healthy.

The rest of the guys are backups, bro.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by jimidollar

Not a Sutton fan, but our defense hardly has any talent. Which starters would even sniff the field on another team?

Jones, Houston, Hitchens, Ragland, and Fuller for sure. Nandi and Ford on a few teams at least. I'd even argue Nelson or perhaps Bailey or Ford on a few of the real garbage teams. But even if you ignore them since I think your question was really about who would start on a majority of teams, you've got 5-7.

Now I'm not really disagreeing with your overall point, but we do have a little talent. Just very little in the secondary. My frustration is that he isn't trying anything new. It is clear bend but don't break isn't working. Playing prevent in the second quarter didn't work today.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

well, I mean you have what, 4 new starters and 3 or 4 new rotational guys and have the same results...

So, is it that the team can't identify talent? They sure have no issues on the offensive side of the ball.

Is it that the scheme is too complicated and so guys aren't in the right place because they're confused?[/QUOTE]

How did they pick all defense in the draft and not get a single defensive starter??

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well then that's a coaching/scheme issue.

I'm totally open to other ideas, but I think it seems pretty clear. The one thing the Chiefs did scheme-wise today that was right on was bracketing AB and making the Steelers beat them elsewhere. Problem is, Mahomes threw 6 TD's and it still was ALMOST not enough. I mean, I think it's pretty clear.

It was clear that the game would never have been that close if not for the refs.

It's a team effort to beat the Steelers AND the refs.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

What talent? Outside of Fuller, there isn't a single starter on the back end of this defense. On any other team, Nelson would be a backup, Scandrick would be a backup. The biggest blunder on defense today was by Eric Murray and if it weren't for the Chiefs, he'd be unemployed.

Dee Ford is a bust, Justin Houston is just plain busted. KPass is a no-show, Reggie Ragland is a MLB that can't tackle.

In all seriousness, there's 3 guys on this defense that would compete for starting jobs on other teams - Hitchens, Fuller, Jones, and that's probably it.

I agree it appears that way. I just can't see it being that they whiffed completely on all of those players' talent level. I mean, can the front office really be that bad? They sure seem to be able to identify offensive talent, yeah?

Murray looks like shit. I agree. I don't think Nelson is all that bad, but he's a 3rd corner in most good defenses. So why would you rush 3 and trust those guys to try to cover for 8 or 9 seconds? By your own statement, Sutton mixed it up and rushed 4 and 5 some in the second half-and we got some stops.
I think you need to rush at least 4 on every down, mixing and matching where the extra man comes from. Zone blitz. I think letting QB's sit back there and pick apart your mediocre secondary is a bad idea. I'm not sure why that's controversial.