Chiefs Pioli Deserves Props - Page 53

Hoover · 04-29-2012, 09:12 AM

The NFL draft is a lot like Christmas morning. There is a lot of anticipation leading up to the big day, and when the time finally arrives to see what’s under the tree for us we can sometimes be a little disappointed.

We all remember the Christmas that we got everything we wanted. For Chiefs fans that was last year. We got a QB, WR, DBs, and LBs. Heck we even liked the more practical gifts like a Rodney Hudson. Frankly, the 2011 draft gave us a lot to play with, and we used them.

After a big year like 2011, some of you seem down. Sure we got the big present we always talk about (NT), but its’ not as cool as we thought it would be. We also ended up with some more practical gifts than we expected.

Here is how I view this draft, and to be honest I’m pretty stoked about it.

After having a draft like we did in 2011 where we seemed to hit on almost every pick, it wasn’t necessary for the Chiefs to snag additional pass rushers to sit behind guys like Hali and Houston. While we are still a little shallow when it comes to the safety position and could use some depth at center, the Chiefs are well positioned. In fact, I think the practicality of the 2012 Chiefs draft will allow them the flexibility in future drafts to aggressively seek out play makers to add to this team.

If there is one thing that I think Pioli deserves credit for, it’s rebuilding the Chiefs offensive live. While Albert was already hear when he arrived, Pioli not only filled a glaring hole at RT when he signed Eric Winston, but his last three drafts has set the Chiefs on a course to maintain a quality offensive line for years to come.

Many on this board recoiled at any suggestion that the Chiefs should use their first round pick on a lineman. After all the heated debates about the value of DeCastro, Pioli seems to agree with those who don’t want to invest first round picks on the line. Maybe instead of bitching that we didn’t have the Steelers’ draft, some of you should praise Pioli for doing exactly what you advocated for.

In the last three years, Pioli has taken four offensive linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft. Asamoah and Hudson are now starters. Jeff Allen is going to push Ryan Lilja for a starting spot at guard, but is more likely to be seasoned for a year before finding a permanent home on the life. I know it’s sometimes hard to get excited about the offensive line, but Pioli obviously has a process that seems to be working really well.

Picking back-to-back tackles isn’t as exciting as drafting guys like Justin Houston or Javier Arenas, but it feeds a system that can produce quality linemen that allows the Chiefs not use first round picks on offensive tackles, guards, or centers. It also means that the Chiefs will not be forced to commit free agent dollars on those positions either.

We are lucky to have landed Winston this offseason. Without him there would probably be no Poe. I like how Pioli is building this team. While I continue to be frustrated about Cassel, finding a franchise QB is never easy. We have had three solid drafts under Pioli and we can already see the results. Yes we need to find a QB, but at least we are building a strong team while we continue to look for him.

whoman69 · 05-02-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Grbac/Gannon myth that is always debunked by stats. Marty made the right call on the QB that day, the rest of it was just typical Martyball playoff version.

The stats don't account for the fact that Grbac was rusty coming off injury. Gannon was working and should not have been replaced. The fact their numbers are so similar that to say Grbac should have been inserted in another Marty mistake. Marty doesn't have his playoff record without reason.

Micjones · 05-02-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

David Carr, Joey Harrington, all of these guys get 2nd chances. He'll have to potentially compete in his 2nd stop but he'll still get a shot.

You just proved my point.

Carr left Houston after 5 seasons and made just 4 more starts the rest of his career. He was a backup the rest of the way though.
Carr took over for Jake Delhomme, in Carolina, AFTER an elbow injury.

Harrington left Detroit after 4 seasons and made 21 more starts, BUT...
He was a backup at all three of his future stops.
He took over for Daunte Culpepper, in Miami, AFTER a shoulder injury (and remember Culpepper tore his knee up just one season prior).
He went on to Atlanta where he was Michael Vick's backup...until he was suspended for the '07 season.
After that year...he was cut again and never played another game.

**BossChief** · 05-02-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Haha I know Freeman is better than Cassel, but to act as if he is some great player worth #3 overall is lunacy.

I'm tempted to start calling him "Black Castle"

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Freeman wasn't worth the #3 overall but Tannehill was worth trading 2nd and 3rd round picks for?

Wow.

Truth...try it sometime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So you're saying Freeman wasn't worth a #3 but Tannehill was worth the #8 plus a 3rd rounder?

Gimme a break.

I've said over and over that I'd cap it as a second rounder to move up...but that we could move to 6 for a third and 11.

Who the **** ever said 8th and a third?

Lets try to stick to the facts here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Whatever suits their argument.

Ironic.

I've never said I would give that much for Tannehill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Someone stated a number of games a qb has to play before you can really see what you have.

Don't remember who or how many, but I remember reading it once.

I want to say that is around 36 starts. Or somewhere real close to that number.

You can look at a clear difference between games before and after that line...but that alone might have moved way up with the new rules, too. I'd say you should have a good idea about your quarterback after two years starting nowadays.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Rich Gannon never actually showed anything. When you throw out the rose-colored revisionist history, he produced nearly IDENTICAL results to Elvis Grbac in KC and in Oakland, he played in a dink and dunk offense with two HoF WRs.

Rich Gannon may be one of the most overrated QBs in Chief fan history.

it's not like the guy won the league MVP trophy or anything...

All in all, I don't think Freeman is much better than a guy like ....Jason Campbell...but he could prove me wrong in the coming years.

He would be an obvious upgrade to Cassel, but so would a space monkey.

Hammock Parties · 05-02-2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:

All in all, I don't think Freeman is much better than a guy like ....Jason Campbell...but he could prove me wrong in the coming years.

When did Campbell go 25/6?

Josh Freeman honestly reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger on a significantly less talented team.

Not only did he go 3500/25/6 his 2nd year, he had 364 rushing yards.

He's mega talented.

**SAUTO** · 05-02-2012, 05:20 PM

Cassel and Freeman both had good years when they played a weak schedule.

Then they shit the bed the next year against better competition.

True about Freeman being younger, he COULD rebound but is not a given like clay is trying to act.

This is a stupid ****ing argument
Posted via Mobile Device

Hammock Parties · 05-02-2012, 05:22 PM

And even with those facts, Freeman is still better. He completes passes at a higher rate, he throws for more yards.

**Rain Man** · 05-02-2012, 05:24 PM

I'm not sure of a good place to put this, so I'll put it here.

If you know your Chiefs history, you've heard the story of how Gene Upshaw was drafted by the Raiders specifically in response to Buck Buchanan. Buck was a behemoth athlete, and couldn't be handled by just anyone, so Al Davis drafted Upshaw as a specific strategy (and maybe Shell, too).

So...our division has Phillip Rivers, who as we all know is the greatest quarterback to never appear in the playoffs, and the Raiders added Carson Palmer, an injury shy formerly talented quarterback, and the Broncos added the Ghost of Peyton Manning, plus or minus a few vertebrae.

Could the drafting of Dontari Poe be a specific countermeasure to a strong quarterback division? Granted, we were desperate for a nose tackle to begin with, but having a guy who can push the pocket backwards would be very valuable when you have two dyanamos like Hali and Houston coming in from outside.

This assumes that Poe plays on passing downs, I guess. I have no idea on that. But it makes for a nice theory.

**SAUTO** · 05-02-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

And even with those facts, Freeman is still better. He completes passes at a higher rate, he throws for more yards.

IMO at this point ,Ill use a htis here, one has shown he's cat shit against good competition and one has shown he's dog shit.

But against a good schedule they have both been shit.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman · 05-02-2012, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

No he didn't out play Grbac AT ALL.

Grbac - 10 games, 57% completion, 6.2 YPA, 11 TD, 6 INT, 8-2 W/L
Gannon - 6 games, 56% completion, 6.5 YPA, 7 TD, 4 INT, 5-1 W/L

The idea that Gannon outplayed Grbac is 100% pure nostalgia and nothing more.

Rich Gannon was nothing more than a game manager that season, but GrBac played as shitty a game as we had seen him play when he was inserted back into the lineup in that last game against the Saints.

That decision might have actually derailed his career, because before that he did look like a good QB, and he never looked the same again.

As for the Cassel vs. Freeman argument, the fact that is completely overlooked is that Cassel had 3 years of NFL coaching before he got his first start, and his mechanics and ability to read defenses were shit, which is why Josh McDumbass went to far more spread sets than he had used before as the season progressed in '08.

Almost everyone viewed Freeman as a talented but highly raw QB coming out of school, and considered him a project.

Those kinds of QB are usually developed from the bench in at least their first season, but as something of a project, inconsistency for the first 2 or 3 years should be expected.

This should be his make or break year, though.

Hammock Parties · 05-02-2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

So...our division has Phillip Rivers, who as we all know is the greatest quarterback to never appear in the playoffs

What? He has like 3 or 4 playoff wins. Played in an AFCC.

Philip Rivers > all Chiefs QBs since Dawson.

htismaqe · 05-02-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Truth...try it sometime.

I've said over and over that I'd cap it as a second rounder to move up...but that we could move to 6 for a third and 11.

Who the **** ever said 8th and a third?

It's called conjecture. I wasn't attributing any specific draft pick compensation to you - I was using placeholders FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT. The comment about the #8 and a 3rd rounder was a DIRECT response to someone else - I even quoted them.

JFC on a moped. Exhale Randy Savage.

Brando · 05-02-2012, 07:31 PM

Dammit Carl

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

htismaqe · 05-02-2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

The stats don't account for the fact that Grbac was rusty coming off injury. Gannon was working and should not have been replaced. The fact their numbers are so similar that to say Grbac should have been inserted in another Marty mistake. Marty doesn't have his playoff record without reason.

How bad was Grbac in the playoff game then?

Oh that's right, he wasn't bad at all. He was 24-37 for 260 yards a TD and zero INTs. In fact, he was the ONLY bright spot on offense that day. The running game was SHIT.

We lost that game because the defense couldn't stop Terrell Davis and Tony Gonzales got called for a phantom PI.

Revisionist history.

Hammock Parties · 05-02-2012, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

How bad was Grbac in the playoff game then?

Oh that's right, he wasn't bad at all. He was 24-37 for 260 yards a TD and zero INTs. In fact, he was the ONLY bright spot on offense that day. The running game was SHIT.

We lost that game because the defense couldn't stop Terrell Davis and Tony Gonzales got called for a phantom PI.

Revisionist history.

This.

However, there is an argument to be made that Gannon wouldn't have choked at the end.

htismaqe · 05-02-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

This.

However, there is an argument to be made that Gannon wouldn't have choked at the end.

There's an argument to be made that we would have gotten shut out with Gannon at the helm. He couldn't press the ball downfield at all and when the running game wasn't on that was a recipe for disaster.

04-29-2012, 09:12 AM
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $1398179	Pioli Deserves Props The NFL draft is a lot like Christmas morning. There is a lot of anticipation leading up to the big day, and when the time finally arrives to see what’s under the tree for us we can sometimes be a little disappointed. We all remember the Christmas that we got everything we wanted. For Chiefs fans that was last year. We got a QB, WR, DBs, and LBs. Heck we even liked the more practical gifts like a Rodney Hudson. Frankly, the 2011 draft gave us a lot to play with, and we used them. After a big year like 2011, some of you seem down. Sure we got the big present we always talk about (NT), but its’ not as cool as we thought it would be. We also ended up with some more practical gifts than we expected. Here is how I view this draft, and to be honest I’m pretty stoked about it. After having a draft like we did in 2011 where we seemed to hit on almost every pick, it wasn’t necessary for the Chiefs to snag additional pass rushers to sit behind guys like Hali and Houston. While we are still a little shallow when it comes to the safety position and could use some depth at center, the Chiefs are well positioned. In fact, I think the practicality of the 2012 Chiefs draft will allow them the flexibility in future drafts to aggressively seek out play makers to add to this team. If there is one thing that I think Pioli deserves credit for, it’s rebuilding the Chiefs offensive live. While Albert was already hear when he arrived, Pioli not only filled a glaring hole at RT when he signed Eric Winston, but his last three drafts has set the Chiefs on a course to maintain a quality offensive line for years to come. Many on this board recoiled at any suggestion that the Chiefs should use their first round pick on a lineman. After all the heated debates about the value of DeCastro, Pioli seems to agree with those who don’t want to invest first round picks on the line. Maybe instead of bitching that we didn’t have the Steelers’ draft, some of you should praise Pioli for doing exactly what you advocated for. In the last three years, Pioli has taken four offensive linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft. Asamoah and Hudson are now starters. Jeff Allen is going to push Ryan Lilja for a starting spot at guard, but is more likely to be seasoned for a year before finding a permanent home on the life. I know it’s sometimes hard to get excited about the offensive line, but Pioli obviously has a process that seems to be working really well. Picking back-to-back tackles isn’t as exciting as drafting guys like Justin Houston or Javier Arenas, but it feeds a system that can produce quality linemen that allows the Chiefs not use first round picks on offensive tackles, guards, or centers. It also means that the Chiefs will not be forced to commit free agent dollars on those positions either. We are lucky to have landed Winston this offseason. Without him there would probably be no Poe. I like how Pioli is building this team. While I continue to be frustrated about Cassel, finding a franchise QB is never easy. We have had three solid drafts under Pioli and we can already see the results. Yes we need to find a QB, but at least we are building a strong team while we continue to look for him.
Posts: 17,385

05-02-2012, 05:20 PM	#785
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	Cassel and Freeman both had good years when they played a weak schedule. Then they shit the bed the next year against better competition. True about Freeman being younger, he COULD rebound but is not a given like clay is trying to act. This is a stupid ***ing argument Posted via Mobile Device*
Posts: 55,715

05-02-2012, 05:22 PM	#786
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4440478	And even with those facts, Freeman is still better. He completes passes at a higher rate, he throws for more yards. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 278,651

05-02-2012, 05:24 PM	#787
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3048491 VARSITY	I'm not sure of a good place to put this, so I'll put it here. If you know your Chiefs history, you've heard the story of how Gene Upshaw was drafted by the Raiders specifically in response to Buck Buchanan. Buck was a behemoth athlete, and couldn't be handled by just anyone, so Al Davis drafted Upshaw as a specific strategy (and maybe Shell, too). So...our division has Phillip Rivers, who as we all know is the greatest quarterback to never appear in the playoffs, and the Raiders added Carson Palmer, an injury shy formerly talented quarterback, and the Broncos added the Ghost of Peyton Manning, plus or minus a few vertebrae. Could the drafting of Dontari Poe be a specific countermeasure to a strong quarterback division? Granted, we were desperate for a nose tackle to begin with, but having a guy who can push the pocket backwards would be very valuable when you have two dyanamos like Hali and Houston coming in from outside. This assumes that Poe plays on passing downs, I guess. I have no idea on that. But it makes for a nice theory. __________________ I'm putting random letters here as a celebration of free speech: xigrakgrah misorojeq rkemeseit.
Posts: 141,662

05-02-2012, 07:31 PM	#792
Brando Swiss Family GRobinson Join Date: Sep 2004 Casino cash: $8034036	Dammit Carl Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
Posts: 2,858