The whole key to the offseason right here

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by YontsRBake

Flowers is projected for a 5 year $75 million contract (based on the example set by Danielle Hunter I believe) I don't think we can afford that.

One thing I don't see many people talking about that I think should be considered is what about leaving Chris Jones at the SDE spot? Then going to FA or the draft for a DT.

You think everyone is getting 5 years $75 million.

[dlphg9]

Houston is so much better than Ford and its not close. Im not giving Ford 16 mil guaranteed

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Houston is so much better than Ford and its not close. Im not giving Ford 16 mil guaranteed

particularly as a run defender.

I mean, I don't see Ford as a starter on a top ten run defense. All you have to do is run at him.

I literally watched a run play off tackle in the first quarter where the Colts blocked him one on one with a WIDE RECEIVER who cleared him right the **** out of the path of the ball carrier.

Now that's one bad play, it's true. But shit, man. A WIDE RECEIVER. I mean, damn.

Houston as a DE will get you double digit sacks (no coverage snaps) plus he'll be guaranteed one on one pass rush opportunities as a RULE next to Jones. Ford, if he wins, wins fast and it's dramatic, but Houston wins MORE OFTEN it's just not as dramatic because it's not as FAST. but he's just as effective.
I'd put money on it that if we were to keep Houston and play him every down at RDE and he's healthy all year, he'll match Ford's 13 sacks. he was only 4 away this year and missed what, 5 games?

He's the better player and it works out financially cheaper.

I'm appreciating the spirited and educated discussion by the way.

Talk me out of it. Convince me.

[bigbucks24]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

particularly as a run defender.

I mean, I don't see Ford as a starter on a top ten run defense. All you have to do is run at him.

I literally watched a run play off tackle in the first quarter where the Colts blocked him one on one with a WIDE RECEIVER who cleared him right the **** out of the path of the ball carrier.

Now that's one bad play, it's true. But shit, man. A WIDE RECEIVER. I mean, damn.

Houston as a DE will get you double digit sacks (no coverage snaps) plus he'll be guaranteed one on one pass rush opportunities as a RULE next to Jones. Ford, if he wins, wins fast and it's dramatic, but Houston wins MORE OFTEN it's just not as dramatic because it's not as FAST. but he's just as effective.
I'd put money on it that if we were to keep Houston and play him every down at RDE and he's healthy all year, he'll match Ford's 13 sacks. he was only 4 away this year and missed what, 5 games?

He's the better player and it works out financially cheaper.

I'm appreciating the spirited and educated discussion by the way.

Talk me out of it. Convince me.

On one hand, you think someone else is going to pay a king's ransom for him and then you turn around that talk about how poorly he plays the run and how he's not a starter on a top 10 defense. If someone is going to pay a 1st round draft choice or a high second for him and then turn around a pay him like the best pass rusher in the game, he damn well better be better than you described.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by bigbucks24

On one hand, you think someone else is going to pay a king's ransom for him and then you turn around that talk about how poorly he plays the run and how he's not a starter on a top 10 defense. If someone is going to pay a 1st round draft choice or a high second for him and then turn around a pay him like the best pass rusher in the game, he damn well better be better than you described.

top ten RUN defense. And I don't think a #2 is a king's ransom.

[dlphg9]

Trade Ford for Javier Arenas or Brandon Carr or Brandon Flowers

[bricks]

Get rid of Ford and Houston?

I understand some of the rationale behind this both financial and value wise it makes sense, but damn the passrush will go to shit next year IF both of them are gone.

Think of the consequences of that decision. I get the benefits out of it but keep in mind passrushers are a premium in this league and ain’t easy to find. We get rid of them we better make sure we make up for it someway or somehow either by turning around the secondary into a stout unit and be creative in creating pressure from somewhere or hopefully sign an under the radar guy for less money that could get to the QB and find a gem somewhere in the draft...I don’t know. But those are tough decisions.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by bricks

Get rid of Ford and Houston?

I understand some of the rationale behind this both financial and value wise it makes sense, but damn the passrush will go to shit next year IF both of them are gone.

Think of the consequences of that decision. I get the benefits out of it but keep in mind passrushers are a premium in this league and ain’t easy to find. We get rid of them we better make sure we make up for it someway or somehow either by turning around the secondary into a stout unit and be creative in creating pressure from somewhere or hopefully sign an under the radar guy for less money that could get to the QB and find a gem somewhere in the draft...I don’t know. But those are tough decisions.

Dude, read the thread. NOBODY is saying get rid of both, but it's not possible to KEEP BOTH. Most people assume we'll cut Houston and tag and play Ford. My hypothesis is that keeping Houston and trading Ford on the tag is a better financial deal even though it doesn't look like it at face value and that he's overall the superior player. It's kind of fun; it's an actual spirited smart debate about the pro's and con's. Mostly no name calling.

[Rawlsian]

I wonder if Houston places blame on the staff for his lingering injury back in 2016. He seems to be all about himself through all of this

[oldman]

I think there's a lot of validity to Chris's argument. I realize $21M is a pretty hard number, but so is $16M. My opinion is Houston fits better in a 4-3 much better than Ford. Ford is a liability in the run game, Houston is not. How many times did we see Houston drop into coverage, negating any chance to rush the QB?
I think Houston would restructure for the same guaranteed money because he sees the Chiefs as the best chance of getting that ring. The tag and trade Ford option is a little risky. I'm not sure any team would give up a #1 and take a $16M hit for a 1 year player. I'm not even sure we'd get a high #2 unless there's a 3-4 team that has money and feels they are 1 step away from competing. The only team I can think of is the Colts and they're pretty far down the draft order. .

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by oldman

I think there's a lot of validity to Chris's argument. I realize $21M is a pretty hard number, but so is $16M. My opinion is Houston fits better in a 4-3 much better than Ford. Ford is a liability in the run game, Houston is not. How many times did we see Houston drop into coverage, negating any chance to rush the QB?
I think Houston would restructure for the same guaranteed money because he sees the Chiefs as the best chance of getting that ring. The tag and trade Ford option is a little risky. I'm not sure any team would give up a #1 and take a $16M hit for a 1 year player. I'm not even sure we'd get a high #2 unless there's a 3-4 team that has money and feels they are 1 step away from competing. The only team I can think of is the Colts and they're pretty far down the draft order. .

The thing is, cutting Ford and keeping Houston isn't $16m; it's $23m.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Houston must restructure

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

Houston must restructure

except what are you restructuring to?

His base salary in 2020 is $19 million. However, you can cut him for $1.5 million in dead cap; saving $17.5 million.

Remember, Patrick's deal is on the horizon here.

I'm saying I think it might be literally more financially smart to eat the $21 m this year and cut him next year.

As long as draft a DE this year to be ready to carry a full load next year, we're in good shape.

[BossChief]

Restructures don’t require a players consent iirc. Extending the contract does, but not a restructure.

[htismaqe]

I'm not going to RELY on either of them. Therefore, I'm going to keep the one that costs the least against the cap.