Football North Dakota refuses to change their name from "Fighting Sioux" - Page 6

MMXcalibur · 02-08-2012, 02:43 PM

http://www.startribune.com/sports/go...138936689.html

Quote:

BISMARCK, N.D. - The University of North Dakota said Wednesday it will resume using its contentious Fighting Sioux nickname despite threats from the NCAA, marking the latest twist in a protracted fight about a name its critics consider offensive.

A state law that that required the university to use the nickname and a logo that shows the profile of an American Indian warrior was repealed last year. But late Tuesday, supporters of the name filed petitions demanding that the issue be put to a statewide vote

The NCAA has told UND that continued use of the nickname and logo will expose the school to sanctions. If the nickname and logo are kept, the university won't be allowed to host postseason sports tournaments, and its athletes may not wear uniforms with the logo or nickname in postseason play

On a somewhat related note, here's a little known fact: Originally, the people of Kansas City wanted to name their football team the Kansas City WA-WA-WA-WA-WA-WA's, but elected on Chiefs at the last moment.

Braincase · 02-09-2012, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

The Sioux tribe hasn't given permission for them to use the name. The Seminoles have.

They got 3 years to broker some kind of an agreement, but failed to do so.

This might contradict that...

FORT TOTTEN, ND – Speaking at the tribal headquarters of the Spirit Lake Sioux Nation, attorney Reed Soderstrom announced a lawsuit against the NCAA alleging copyright infringement and civil rights violations. The Sioux tribe supports the University of North Dakota’s “Fighting Sioux” nickname and logo, but the NCAA has deemed them to be “hostile and abusive.”

“Today, the Spirit Lake Tribe of Indians, by and through its Committee of Understanding and Respect, and Archie Fool Bear, individually, and as Representative of more than 1004 Petitioners of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, filed a lawsuit against the National Collegiate Athletic Association in direct response to their attempt to take away and prevent the North Dakota Sioux Indians from giving their name forever to the University of North Dakota,” said Soderstrom in prepared remarks.

Soderstrom alleges that the NCAA has violated “the religious and first amendment rights of the Dakota Sioux tribes.” He also alleged a double standard in the application of the NCAA’s policy against the use of Native American names and imagery.

“Though the NCAA has decided ‘Fighting Sioux’ is derogatory, the NCAA supports the University of Illinois’ use of the name ‘Fighting Illini,’ and the use by Florida State University of the name ‘Seminoles’ along with the Seminole mascot – someone dressed in Native American attire who rides into the FSU stadium on a horse and throws a flaming spear before every home football game,” said Soderstrom. “The NCAA claims these are not derogatory depictions because the Illini people and the Seminole people approve of the use of the name and mascot. Inexplicably, the NCAA fails to accept the tribal vote and the sacred religious ceremony as endorsements of the name ‘Fighting Sioux’ by the North Dakota Sioux Nation.”

The lawsuit claims that the Sioux tribe were “indispensable parties” to a lawsuit filed by the State of North Dakota against the NCAA in 2007, the settlement of which required the state to get permission from the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock Sioux tribes, but were never included in negotiations of that settlement. It also alleges defamation, violations of the Indian Civil Rights Act, defamation and an unlawful restraint on trade.

The lawsuit asks that the NCAA’s policy be stricken and that the organization pay punitive damages in the amount of $10 million.
Earlier this year the North Dakota legislature passed a law ordering the University of North Dakota to keep the “Fighting Sioux” nickname despite NCAA sanctions. The bill was signed into law by Governor Jack Dalrymple, but after a meeting between state officials and NCAA leadership in Indiana Dalrymple and other state leaders feel the law should be repealed in an upcoming special session of the legislature.

**Saulbadguy** · 02-09-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

If NDSU has to remove their mascot due to NCAA threat, then the NCAA has to do the same to Florida State as well.

The Bison? I see nothing wrong with Bison.

Imon Yourside · 02-09-2012, 08:04 AM

How many would be offended if they were called the Fighting Crackaz? I wouldn't be, they would be my 2nd favorite team. They could use any old pale skinned dude as their mascot and i'm sure no one would be offended.

**bevischief** · 02-09-2012, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy

The Bison? I see nothing wrong with Bison.

Bison are in Fargo, Fighting Sioux in Bismark.

**rockymtnchief** · 02-09-2012, 08:12 AM

After this first came out, years ago, some Native American students got together an intramural basketball team and called themselves the "Fighting Norwegians".

The Norwegians didn't protest.

**RealSNR** · 02-09-2012, 08:24 AM

This is the University of North Dakota (UND). NOT North Dakota State University (NDSU).

NDSU is in Fargo. They are the Bison. They're the ones that won the Division IAA football championship

UND is in Grand Forks. They're the Fighting Sioux, and are famous for the hockey team.

Rape.

**Dartgod** · 02-09-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bevischief

Bison are in Fargo, Fighting Sioux in Bismark.

No, UND is in Grand Forks.

oldandslow · 02-09-2012, 08:37 AM

In the interest of full disclosure...I am an enrolled full blood Choctaw married to an enrolled full blood Lakota woman who grew up on Pine Ridge. I grew up in OK. We have three biological children who are enrolled Lakota and have 3 adopted children who are Yankton Sioux. We have lived in SD for most of our adult lives. I recieved a Ph.D. (ecological sciences & biology) from the university of OK and am getting ready to retire from the university in a couple of years. We will probably move to the Black Hills after that.

I said all of that to say this. Most Indians don't even think about this. It is not the center of our lives. When brought up most would say it would be better if the teams would find other mascots, but it is not worth going to war over. There is one team's mascot that every Indian I know finds offensive. And that is the Redskins. It should be removed - period.

However, most of us realize that to waste political capital on this is kind of silly. There are some real issues out there where I, and most other Indians, would be the directly opposed to most of the folks on this board - uranium mining in the Black Hills, for example.

Indians have been dealt a tough hand. But most of us quit playing the victim game a long time ago. I know the stereotype of the drunken, welfare Indian is pretty rampant. And we typically are a "clannish" and sometimes it's hard to get to know us. But we are as varied as whites or any other race. Some of us are millionaires. Some of us are poverty stricken. Some of us walk a traditional road, filled with same religion and practices as people who live 1000 years ago. Some of us cut our hair. Some of us don't.

The "fighting Sioux" does push forward another stereotype. The "Sioux" are made up of seven "council fires" or tribal bands. Some of those bands fought whites ferociously for years (the Lakota being one of them). The Yankton, on the other hand, NEVER fought the whites. Not once. Yet all of the tribes are labeled as warrior-like and that really is not true.

Anyway, its important to somebody in ND to not be politically correct and not give in to the wishes of the Sioux who live there. That's fine. But I do think it is important to understand why folks grow tired of stereotyping.

blaise · 02-09-2012, 08:43 AM

When I hear a name the the "Fighting ____" I don't generally think they're saying the race, or group is inherently warrior-like or anything. I generally look at it as a sports team thing. Like the "Running Rebels" or something. As in a competitive, on the field thing. It doesn't make me think the Sioux were always fighting.
Maybe that's just me though.

02-09-2012, 08:04 AM	#78
Imon Yourside WhatUneed2Hear Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: AllSoulsMatter Casino cash: $2193181	How many would be offended if they were called the Fighting Crackaz? I wouldn't be, they would be my 2nd favorite team. They could use any old pale skinned dude as their mascot and i'm sure no one would be offended. __________________ "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" Peter 5:8 "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay" Isaiah 29:16 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20
Posts: 44,542

02-09-2012, 08:12 AM	#80
rockymtnchief Supporter Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Crazys of Montana Casino cash: $10018968 VARSITY	After this first came out, years ago, some Native American students got together an intramural basketball team and called themselves the "Fighting Norwegians". The Norwegians didn't protest.
Posts: 5,740

02-09-2012, 08:37 AM	#83
oldandslow Veteran Join Date: Apr 2004 Casino cash: $5343149	In the interest of full disclosure...I am an enrolled full blood Choctaw married to an enrolled full blood Lakota woman who grew up on Pine Ridge. I grew up in OK. We have three biological children who are enrolled Lakota and have 3 adopted children who are Yankton Sioux. We have lived in SD for most of our adult lives. I recieved a Ph.D. (ecological sciences & biology) from the university of OK and am getting ready to retire from the university in a couple of years. We will probably move to the Black Hills after that. I said all of that to say this. Most Indians don't even think about this. It is not the center of our lives. When brought up most would say it would be better if the teams would find other mascots, but it is not worth going to war over. There is one team's mascot that every Indian I know finds offensive. And that is the Redskins. It should be removed - period. However, most of us realize that to waste political capital on this is kind of silly. There are some real issues out there where I, and most other Indians, would be the directly opposed to most of the folks on this board - uranium mining in the Black Hills, for example. Indians have been dealt a tough hand. But most of us quit playing the victim game a long time ago. I know the stereotype of the drunken, welfare Indian is pretty rampant. And we typically are a "clannish" and sometimes it's hard to get to know us. But we are as varied as whites or any other race. Some of us are millionaires. Some of us are poverty stricken. Some of us walk a traditional road, filled with same religion and practices as people who live 1000 years ago. Some of us cut our hair. Some of us don't. The "fighting Sioux" does push forward another stereotype. The "Sioux" are made up of seven "council fires" or tribal bands. Some of those bands fought whites ferociously for years (the Lakota being one of them). The Yankton, on the other hand, NEVER fought the whites. Not once. Yet all of the tribes are labeled as warrior-like and that really is not true. Anyway, its important to somebody in ND to not be politically correct and not give in to the wishes of the Sioux who live there. That's fine. But I do think it is important to understand why folks grow tired of stereotyping.
Posts: 4,567

02-09-2012, 08:43 AM	#84
blaise In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Plano, TX Casino cash: $9999900	When I hear a name the the "Fighting ____" I don't generally think they're saying the race, or group is inherently warrior-like or anything. I generally look at it as a sports team thing. Like the "Running Rebels" or something. As in a competitive, on the field thing. It doesn't make me think the Sioux were always fighting. Maybe that's just me though.
Posts: 22,188